45-120 happy surprise

[bigted]

i just had a browning hiwall follow me home that is reamed out for the sharps 45-120 case. [smilie=w:

what id like to read about here is some loading tactics both smokeless and blackpowder. also j-words as well as the boolits i plan for its use. ive always wanted one of these chamberings but never thought long enough about it to gather any info on them so im close to clueless about this 3x1/4 case and the secrets it holds for loading safe amounts of smokeless except the loads in my lyman books.

i got several rcbs cases in the trade along with the rcbs dies for this giant cartridge.

any info would be greatly apreciated. the bore is .4585.

[smilie=s: :popcorn: :veryconfu

[Bullshop]

The Accurate Arms book has quite a bit of smokless data for most of the big straight cases.
Think about this, the 3 1/4" Sharps case has more volume than a 458 Lott case, is equally as strong and chambered in the Browning 1885 is as strong an action as anything a Lott would be found in. Kinda scary ha!
I think the shooter will give out before max pressure is reached. Enjoy!

[ReloaderFred]

Congratulations on your acquisition. You're going to like this rifle and caliber, even though it's a little expensive to shoot.

I've had one for over 20 years. Mine is a Browning B-78 that was rebarrelled with a heavy octagon barrel. It's very, very accurate and kicks like a mule. Very few people who aren't into large caliber rifles will shoot it more than once.

First of all, get yourself a shooting glove for your shooting hand that has padding on the back of the glove. The lever is going to rap the back of your fingers, no matter how you hold it. Once you get rid of this little annoyance, it's more fun to shoot. I did put a good recoil pad on mine. The stock was short for me, anyway, and it needed some padding.

Don't buy any Bertram brass. The quality isn't there and it doesn't last as long as RCBS Basic, Huntington or Jamison International brass does. I've even gotten Bertram brass that was split down the side before it was even loaded, and primer pockets that blew out from being too thin the first time they were fired. Jamison bought all the old BELL brass making machines from PMC several years ago and have the original dies used to make the RCBS/BELL brass.

I don't shoot black powder, so my loads are all with smokeless. I use IMR 4895 and have settled on the RCBS 405 gr. RNFP-GC bullet mold. With my alloy they drop from the mold at 420 grains. I used to shoot a 300 grain JHP bullet in it, but decided to just settle with the one bullet, since it makes it easier for sighting, etc. I also use a case filler, Winchester Super Grex, which is no longer available. When it was discontinued to the public, I bought all Widener's had in stock, so I have enough to last me until I can't shoot anymore.

I don't publish loading data on forums, for various reasons. There is just too much possibility of typo's, misprints, memory lapse, etc. I wouldn't trust someone else's data, and wouldn't expect anyone else to trust mine.

It's been so long since I've looked up any data on the .45-120, I don't remember where I got the loads for mine, but I did get it from a written source. My load is putting the 420 grain bullet out at just over 2,200 fps. I could probably get more out of it, but haven't found it necessary.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Bullshop]

When they quit making super grex I started using packing popcorn in place of it.
Still a weightless filler and works every bit as good but its free.

[bigted]

bullshop...my hats off to you bubba. here is why...

i loaded 4 shells with 120gr goex 2f powder when i got home last nite. i had to compress this load greatly to seat my lyman 420gr boolits to where i wanted them. today i actually went outside and shot them and here is the storie...

loaded the first into the breech end and shut the sexy action. smoothly shouldered this lite little gun and poised my finger on the gold trigger. as my heart beat a little faster [ been years coming to realize a dream of owning and shooting a 45-120 sharps chambered gun] as i started to take up the slack in the trigger the dang thing went off and slamed into my shoulder as it ripped of skin on my trigger hand with the lever on the straight wristed stock.

thinking i had done something terribly wrong i swiftly loaded another shell into this lil beuty. still smiling i shouldered the rifle again thinking that id be ready for it this time. as i pulled the curved plate into my shoulder again i prepared myself for the joy i knew id finally realize with this dream rifle. blam off it goes and my rotator cup in my shoulder almost gave way to the pointy cresent of the curved plate and more skin off my second finger of my shooting hand.

not being too smart i still considered i had somehow done something terribly wrong so i loaded another of these 4. something inch shells. waiting for the bliss that was sure to overtake my senses as i triggered off another of these king of 45's i gritted my teeth and let fly once again. still digging into my shoulder and blood dripping from my injured hand i looked at my prize in a daze and somewhat mystified as to why it was treating me so badly

certain i had still done somthing very wrong i thumbed in the last shell into the waiting mouth of this devils own yawning mouth of a breech and slammed closed the lever as the breechblock came into battery. still not too smart i hugged the evil curve of the buttplate into my by now sore and internally damaged [ i was sure] shoulder. as my sore fingers of my shooting hand found the trigger i determined to not get bit again so i smartly held out the second finger before i squeezed this wonderfull trigger. as the trigger depressed the first thing that struck me was that now i was bleeding from the second AND third finger of my [what used to be pristine] shooting hand.

astounded from pain and dumbfounded that a dream of so many years would misstreat me in such fassion i limped inside the house to clean up my new monster. still mystified as to the treatment it never occured to me till later as i was washing these loooooong cartridges that this would hold more powder then the .458 lott cartridge by a bunch. im sure that these 420gr lead boolits had to be scooting along at near the speed of light. the small pointy sections of this previously viewed as a sexy buttplate had torn into my shoulder to missplace the bones to such a point that im sure that the surgeon in switzerland someplace will have to be summoned to repair the damage.

im thinking that next ill try the 530gr gouvernment style boolit and maybe if i do my part in the compression department i may ... i say just may just be able to squeeze in somewhere around 135 or possibly 140gr of this soft burning 2f blackpowder. if i do my part im sure that the social security dept will feel sorry for my deformed body and they will allow me to retire with my newly aquired 45-120 clutched tightly in my still dripping hands...never to let go except to maybe go potty then pick up my darlin again and dream of vast herds of buff and huge headed grizz.

well ...lol...thats my storie and im stickin to it. i will never regret getting this neat rifle but iv come to a conclussion...that is that such a cartridge should really be handled inside a 12 + pound rifle and that if i ever get the chance ill deffinetly turn this curvey sexy buttplate into a flat....very flat shotgun style buttplate and maybe turn the little lite sweet octogonbarrel into a heavy sharps style half oct half round barrel from oh lets see ...maybe from a little known barrel manufacturing company called BADGER.

i just hope my storie of misery causes some sympathy from some kindhearted soul out there and to the rest of the smirkers out there.......now that the new is off me maybe now we can talk turkey about loads for this pusseycat of a rifle....lol.

[Bullshop]

Cry baby!
Just kiddin, I was worse when I shot it. Thanks for taking it from me.
Looking back on my first post it seems my prediction came true.
Another prediction, you will only shoot it from the bench just once.
If you ever become interested in trying some duplex smokless loads that shoot good but dont treat you so badly I think I have some logged somewhere.
Have fun but bring band-aids.

[wills]

Didn’t Badger stop building BPCR barrels?

[AaronJ]

just shot my uncles new to him uberti 45 120 wedensday. he picked it up for a song from a guy at the local rural king. turns out the guy had never shot it as he was scared of the recoil. i cant recall my uncles exact data but i know he was using trail boss with bullets around 405 grains and recoil was minimal.

[Nrut]

Thank's for the laugh Ted!....:lol:
For cresent butt plate's on kickers I cut some blue sleeping pad foam and duck tape it to the stock..
Get a leather lace on to cover it..
Check out Buffalo Arms for all sorts of goodies if you haven't already..

[bigted]

Cry baby!
Just kiddin, I was worse when I shot it. Thanks for taking it from me.
Looking back on my first post it seems my prediction came true.
Another prediction, you will only shoot it from the bench just once.
If you ever become interested in trying some duplex smokless loads that shoot good but dont treat you so badly I think I have some logged somewhere.
Have fun but bring band-aids.



cry baby indeed sir! :kidding: :D this is way more then expected and still a very large hoot...again i thankyou for turning me onto this beuty. she is just as liable to provide pain as pleassure...hmmmm kinda reminds me of another something that is lurking around the edges of my ol mind...ho hummmmm best i just get along from that thought before i get into more trouble huh...lol :lol:

id be interested in any loads you can turn me onto as well as anybody and thanks for them in advance.

[semtav]

I suppose now is not the time to tell you I put 26 gr Trail Boss in mine but if you get close to that, use at your own risk cause some have warned against that kind of load.

[ReloaderFred]

I told you to use a glove for your shooting hand, didn't I??

With my smokeless loads, the tang sight tips forward with each shot. Or more correctly, the top of the tang sight stays where it is, and the rifle recoils faster than it can keep up. A thick Sorbathane butt pad helps a lot with this caliber, but it's still fun to shoot.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[NickSS]

I had a rifle just like yours some 20 years ago and it shot well but it kicked the living snot out of me and mine had a recoil pad and a shotgun butt plate. The rifle was way too light for the caliber. I sold it and have not owned anything longer than a 45- 2.4" ever since and my lightest BPCR weighs 9.5 pounds and I have several over 12 pounds just for the reason that you describe. I only know of one guy in my club that shoots that caliber and he down loads it to shoot only 85 gr of BP and takes up the extra space with wads and COW. I know two guys who have the 2 7/8 case sharps and they like them for hunting but do not fire them more than a few rounds from the bench. Several years ago I loaded up some 45-70s with 405 gr JSP slugs and 54 gr of 4895 for my Marlin to take on a fishing trip to Alaska on the Kenni Peninsula. I found that I could shoot off 10 rounds from a bench rest with good accuracy as long as there was a sand bag between me and the butt plate. After 10 rounds I had a head ache from whiplash. I must admit that I used one of the rounds to drop an elk the next year and I never felt the gun go off but Mr elk died rather suddenly.

[fireball168]

Didn’t Badger stop building BPCR barrels?

I clicked on the link I had for their website last week and found "Badger Defense", with the same address.

Their "custom order form" still lists various BCPR related contours, etc.

Might have to call Ernie to find out what happened.

[semtav]

Don't know how you were shooting your gun Ted, but one thing I've noticed is shooting from a bench, a gun seems to kick twice as hard as normal. For the 45-120, one needs to be upright when shooting it. Either standing, sitting upright shooting off cross sticks, or a taller shooting bench that lets one keep their back straight.
Steve Carpenter has a couple books out on reloading and shooting the 45-120. One of his points is to let your body go with the recoil, not try to stop the recoil.
Brian

[cajun shooter]

A good mercury style recoil reducer will work inside that stock. A large leather bag with sand filling will also help. If you don't do anything before trying it again then your first shot will be low on the target.

[bigted]

A good mercury style recoil reducer will work inside that stock. A large leather bag with sand filling will also help. If you don't do anything before trying it again then your first shot will be low on the target.



i was thinking along these lines exactly as im not gonna give up on this any time soon...i think...lol

i wonder if just a 2 pound lead slug in the buttstock would do much in toning this down. also im gonna go to a boot repair and find some shoe foam that is dense and build up the curve section of the cresent so as to have a flat place to insatall a lace on recoil pad ...prolly from buf arms like has been suggested.

i def would be comforted in useing this boomer for anything that moves up here...i thought my marlin kicked...haaa! :groner:

i have this giant shell casing setting on this computer desk and i just cant get over smiling whenever i look at it...what a beast. [smilie=l:.

another thing that cought me by surprise [yep head completely hidden from view with this new arrival] is tha amount of fouling inside the barrel from just 4 shots but i guess i shot 480gr of powder thru her without swabbing out between...turned into a chore to clean but worth every second. i got to get a better lube i think.

thanks for all the kind words for this "crybaby" i guess i could have guessed that a 45-120 would wake up shooting out of a rifle origanally designed for a bp 45-70 huh. well the stars were def in my eyes and this starstruck gazer got bit this time but the learning goes on and on and on .......

i think my next step is going to be to pour bp into a large bowl and keep scooping a 120 case thru till i get it full then weigh this to determine what a reassonable load of black will be...that 120 load is a smaker and maybe it is just the nature of this loveable beast. i really want to shoot bp in this but will try some smokeless loads as well to just fool around with them.

hey can i shoot the universal load of 10gr of UNIQUE in this cavernous case and still not have hangfires or ringing the chamber?

[doubs43]

WRT the 45-120 dealing out punishment, I recall one of the best shooters in our local Buffalo matches using a rifle chambered in 45-120 some years back. I believe it was a Shiloh Sharps with a shotgun butt although I won't swear to it. It could have been a Browning High-Wall too.

My friend used it in a couple of matches but soon put it aside for a less painful rifle and caliber. I'd watch him touch off a shot and it hurt me! I also felt pain in my left hip just under my billfold when he told me what the cases cost.

BigTed, I hope you can tame your beast and get a lot of enjoyment out of it. Those cigar-size cartridges are impressive to be sure. Anyone who shoots a 45-120 is certainly no "cry baby".

[bigted]

good news / bad news...


i loaded 25gr of imr 4227 and finished these off with cow for filler...shot very lite and about halfway clean...not dirty enough to feel the need to swab the bore out after 4 of these.

next load was 60gr of imr 4350 for advertised velocity of 1565fps with the lyman 125 boolit...very nice load...little on the stiff side but the slip-on buttpad covering the curved palte did the trick along with the gloves...besides it is 12 degrees out so the added protection of fingers was welcome anyway.

bullshop...i shot both your loads that you sent with me and they recoiled less then the 60gr load of 4350 and filler. kinda nice shooters tho...what a wonderfull rifle. looking forward to moose / cariboo hunting with it this next year with these heavy thumpers.

now the bad news...im such a clod sometimes it kills me. i slugged the bore of this browning on both ends the other nite and just hung it up as i went to meassuring the slugs i pounded into both the breech and muzzle of this barrel. as amazed as i was of the results i never even looked into the bore again till i took her out to shoot today. after making sure nothing was in there for an obstruction i let fly with the first 4 4227 loaded shells looking in between shots to assure myself that nothing had lodged in there for the next shot. then i also checked between shots of the 4350gr loads for 4 shots. next i fired the rest of the 20 that were loaded by bullshop and was so in amazment to the controlability with the slip-on buttpad that all i looked at was making sure no obstructions were between shots. smiling the whole way home and very happy as for how this thumper shot for me with my rudementry "fix's" that had been suggested here for me to try.

got home and went to cleaning only to find a huge deposite of lead in the chamber end of the barrel. thought id just push a oily patch thru and be done except that there was this rough spot just in front of the chamber. now ive never had leading like this before with any of my loads with my home mix of toilet ring/lard/crisco/peanutoil for my lube. it does nothing for blackpowder fouling but ive never had leading from it in the past with any guns ive tryed it in. conclusion is that i must have deposited lead in the breech end before when i slugged the bore from this end. i didnt oil the slug as the bore was what i considered plenty oily enough but this is all i can recon has happened.

next time out shooting ill be sure to assure myself that this is precisely what happened and its not a rough barrel or that somehow my lube is just not working in this rifle...kinda think i put the lead there tho with my pounding this soft lead slug in there without greesing it like i know i should.

i know huh...shame on me for such a childish thing. but im very happy that this rifle is a nice if a little stiff shooter with the glove and pad on the butt end. amazing what the little things will do for just a small bit of comfort. thanks all for the suggestions that make this a fun rifle after all.

Big Ted

[Old Goat Keeper]

Just 2 coments. Now you know why many of the Sharps rifles in 45-120 weight over 13 pounds and have pisol grips and shotgun butts. And the 3.25" 45-120 is the equivalent of the old stopping rifle caliber 3.24 Nitro express. Hehehe, you are plinking with an elepahnt gun BigTed!

Tom

[bigted]

thanks all. im having the time of my life with this rifle and chamber. having a terrible time tho trying to clean the bore. that lead in the barrel in front of the chamber is NOT coming out. ive worn out my arm more scrubbing this barrel rather then getting the snot barked out of me shooting. ive tryed shooters choice and soaked her over nite trying to get the lead out...ive soaked it over nite with butches bore shine [origanal with amonia] and scrubbed till my arm nearly fell off...still there.

next ive loaded 5 shells with a bunch of trail boss behind cow and a rem 405 j-word ...gonna try to shoot it out even tho this is a last resort...id be the first to advise against this but if i cant get it out im gonna take it to my smith and see if he can help me. maybe im looking at pits in the bore...cant tell without a borelite so hopefully the j-words will wipe it and allow me to continue with the fun.

maybe ill just take it to the smith before i shoot these mule kickers with the j.... that id rather not put down thru this barrel.

[semtav]

We'll keep an eye out for the paper, in case we don't hear back from you on how that Trail Boss works out.

[doubs43]

Ted, try this: chuck a length of cleaning rod in a variable speed drill motor and put a jag on the end. Wrap medium-coarse steel wool around the jag.... enough that it won't enter the chamber without compressing. Brass wool will also work. Carefully insert into the chamber and rotate.

Few things will take lead deposits from a bore or chamber as safely or effectively as steel wool.

Steel wool is MUCH softer than barrel steel and WILL NOT harm your chamber or bore.

If steel wool seems harsh, then don't try it but I've used it for years in handgun barrels, cylinder chambers and rifle barrels without hurting a single thing. In bores, of course, you simply push the wad of steel wool through without rotating. Any lead will appear as shiny streaks on the surface of the wool as it comes from the bore, chamber etc.

[bigted]

brian...i was gonna go with the load of tb but realized that not only would this be rediculas in preassure [ altho i believe this browning would withstand such preassure] i backed off this load and used 40 gr of acc 5744 with a fiber overpowder wad and filled the rest with cow. this is a pretty easy load and probably runs along with the imr 4350 load of 60gr. i loaded a rem 405gr J*&#$% on top of this colum with the cow loaded losely clear to the top of the case...then i "compressed the cow with the j--bullet and crimp just enough to remove the flair.

shot these this mornin to try to remove the stuborn lead...i studyed the bore and determined that it was indeed lead deposites in the barrel rite in front of the chamber and a couple deposites in the middle of the barrel length. after shooting 5 of these shells so loaded i took her back in to the cradle to scrub the bore and see if i made any bag.

this barrel shined up nicely after shooting these j-word shells thru her. not only is the barrel lead free but is shiney bright with little scrubing at all. maybe this particular barrel is not gonna be a cast boolit barrel which dismays me greatly. ill continue to experiment tho and see if i cant find the combo it likes but im not ruling out the bullets we dont talk about here.

thanks brian for the warning and im absolutly sorry for posting such a load becouse tho im sure this rifle would stand it...im equally sure that there are more that wouldnt and i just wish i could erase that load from here lest some new person prusing thru find it and try it in an expensive sharps style rifle that i bet would come apart with this kinda preassure.

[bigted]

We'll keep an eye out for the paper, in case we don't hear back from you on how that TB works out. I Thought 26 gr was pretty stiff. (Not Kick wise, but pressure wise)



thanks again Brian for calling my attention to this load as im sure that if somebody with a less stoutly built rifle would likely get hurt with such a load. i edited my post and removed this grain number and i hope it takes ...i would ask you to do likewise as i really dont want this number of grains posted here or anywhere for that matter to be copyed by a new loader thinking that if it says so here it should be ok...thanks again Brian.

Ted

[semtav]

Now its in your court to edit my quote on your post. [smilie=b:

Hope you work your way up slowly. When I posted I had shot 24 gr in my 45-90 I ws told that was too much. Case base swelling may have verified that, but I didn't notice much problem with 26 gr in the 120 either.
Brian

[bigted]

i have shot heavier loads then my shoulder wants a diet of but im gonna keep em to myself as i wouldnt want anybody to follow with a weak action. i was reading on another forum about a group of fellas that load this cart up like a nitro express of the same dimensions but my hats off to em as ive figured out that this huge case is capable of crippling loads that i just dont want to hasstle with...more power to em and ive shot the last "hot" load thru my gun...not any fun and fun is where its at.

my idea is loads around the 1500 fps mark and these loads ive shot thru this gun dont even flatten off the round on my primers so i know the preassure is easy on the cases and this gun...and me...lol.im gonna develope loads for this rifle to hunt with up here in alaska. shouldnt be hard to find a accurate load that is capable of anything that moves up here...maybe in africa as well