1000 yards mold

[canuck4570]

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/308-191-gc.jpg

I wish to do some 1000 yards shooting
would this be a good mold, Its made by NEI
or would you have a better choice, and reason for it
thank you Canuck

[excess650]

Provided it fits the rifle, it should work. It looks like a more pointed version of the Lyman 311299 or 314299, but (maybe) a bit lighter.

Quality form NEI has reputedly slipped, so you might look elswhere if purchasing new. Accurate Molds or Mountain Molds can lathe bore a design thats apt to fit. BRP may have something in their catalog that suits.

My new Lyman 311299 casts .299" x .310". The 311644 .299" x .311" but has a tapered section increasing in diameter ahead of the lube groove. This would be a good choice if it fits.

[dromia]

As excess has said depends whether it fits or not.

When I developed my long range .303" British load for 1000 yrd + shooting I got Veral Smith at LBT to cut me a mould to fit my rifles throat.

He made a fine job of the design and made a mould that casts a boolit that does its job. Shame he is so hard to deal with as record keeping and customer care just aren't within his remit.

[koehn,jim]

As both have stated above there is also a grp buy about to be made for the 311365 that has an excellent ballistic co-efficent. It is also available in different diameters to better fit your rifle. Have you slugged it yet to see what diam. bullet you need. Also cbe in Aust. makes very good molds.

[canuck4570]

As excess has said depends whether it fits or not.

When I developed my long range .303" British load for 1000 yrd + shooting I got Veral Smith at LBT to cut me a mould to fit my rifles throat.

He made a fine job of the design and made a mould that casts a boolit that does its job. Shame he is so hard to deal with as record keeping and customer care just aren't within his remit.
how fast are you shooting your bullets for 1000 yards shooting?

[waco]

Anyone know what the BC is on the 311365?

[Artful]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?94638-Cast-Bullet-Ballistic-Coefficent-Table/page2

calculated at .438

[waco]

Thanks Artful

[tygar]

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/308-191-gc.jpg

I wish to do some 1000 yards shooting
would this be a good mold, Its made by NEI
or would you have a better choice, and reason for it
thank you Canuck

Ok u guys have me sucked in.

How do you keep that bullet fast enough to stay supersonic at 1k so it's not sideways
& hitting the next target over?

[waco]

I only plan on using mine out to around 500

94354

[Larry Gibson]

Note the bearing surface on Waco's bullets is 50+%. On the proposed bullet it is probably 35 - 40%. If you are going to push any naked cast bullet to a high enough velocity to remain sonic at 1000 yards you'd best have one with 60 - 70% bearing surface. It should have a BC of .480+ and you'd better plan on 2550 fps minimum. You should also use a longer barrel of at least 26" (longer than that is preferable such as 28 or 30") with a twist that is just fast enough to stabilize the bullet. That is, if you want any accuracy at 1000 yards.

Or, push them out sub sonic to begin with (quite doable in a 10 or 12" twist 22 - 26" barrel) and have a lot of useable elevation, and I mean a lot, in either the scope or iron sights.

Larry Gibson

[turbo1889]

Long range accuracy with loads that leave the muzzle super-sonic and hit the target sub-sonic are completely possible. The BPCR long range shooting competition crowd does it all the time.

I've also done it but not at 1,000 only out to 300 or so. Right now at my level of knowledge and load development I can only claim acceptable typical north american big game animal hunting accuracy with cast boolit loads out to 300 or so. Anything beyond that I don't have cast-boolit-load/gun-it-shoots-good-in combinations I would consider ethical to take shots at live game beyond the 300 mark. Anything beyond that it would have to be either a non-animate target or non-game predator animal (2 or 4 legged) that I consider to need killing bad enough to not be worried about being sure of a nice clean kill shot and just concentrate on killing it by hook of by crook and throwing enough shots at it that a target pattern larger then "ALL shots in a pie plate" size will still bring it down, just not as cleanly.

So I can't personally testify that acceptable accuracy at 1,000 yards is possible with a load that has to drop back through the trans-sonic range but it seems some of the BPCR shooters have done it and I personally know for sure it can be done out to 300 yards. Granted dropping back through the trans-sonic zone during flight on the way to the target is a real pain in the neck to overcome and still get good accuracy, but it can be done. My best experience in that specific problem being with long range shotgun slug loads, those flying bricks almost always produce loads that drop back through the trans-sonic flight zone before striking the target if your shooting at anything over 100 yards with a full bore diameter slug and even at only 100 yards or less with some slugs and loads that are more flying brick then others and start out with less initial super-sonic velocity.

[Larry Gibson]

Turbo

Consider the difference between a 1200 - 1400 projectile that drops subsonic in the early flatter stages of it's trajectory vs one that is dropping fast at the end of it's trajectory?

Consider the difference between a 400 gr .40 cal or 500 - 550 gr .45 cal from 16 to 22" twists vs a 200 gr bullet with a longer axis from a 10 or 12" twist dropping subsonic?

Consider the difference in accuracy degradation when bullets go subsonic between 200 and 300 yards vs the same between 700 and 1000 yards?

Consider it is a known fact, that at long range, bullets dropping subsonic is detrimental to accuracy most often. Because we don't see much of an effect at 300 yards doesn't mean it isn't a problem at 1000 yards. It is, indeed, a problem that has to be over come.

Larry Gibson

[btroj]

Larry is right. Long range shooters require a load that doesn't go subsonic before 1000 yards. Going subsonic even between 800 and 1000 yards will kill scores at 1000.

Finding a cast load that will not go subsonic before 1000 yards will be a challenge. Going to need the right mix of bullet design, alloy, barrel dimension and twist, along with the right cartridge and powder. Barrel length around 30 inches won't hurt a bit. Think cast bullet Palma rifle which is pretty much what Larry is shooting now.

[tygar]

[QUOTE=

Or, push them out sub sonic to begin with (quite doable in a 10 or 12" twist 22 - 26" barrel) and have a lot of useable elevation, and I mean a lot, in either the scope or iron sights.

Larry Gibson[/QUOTE]

How much elevation.

My highest gun for elev. is 308 F class at around 39"(could be more but dope book is not here) shooting 175 Berger or Sierra at around 2725+ & BC of apx. 500. All my dedicated 1000yd guns are 30 cal mags shooting the 210 2900+ with BC about 650 w/29-34" brls.

Also, they need to be more than "just" supersonic at 1k. They start to wobble some before that.

So, my experience would lead me to wonder how any of those cast bullets with their lack of BC & velocity do it.

Yet I know guys shoot those big single shots with big bullets at 800-1000, maybe more. Shooting those subsonic must have the trajectory of a cannon ball.

Interesting.

[Larry Gibson]

Yet I know guys shoot those big single shots with big bullets at 800-1000, maybe more. Shooting those subsonic must have the trajectory of a cannon ball.

If you take a look at those tall tang sights used for "long range" shooting you'll get an idea. It takes 150 - 175 +/- moa adjustment to go from a 100 yard zero to a 1000 yard zero with those "big single shots" depending on bullet and initial velocity. I would surmise a 200 - 220 gr cast bullet with a similar BC kicked out at 1100 - 1200 maybe 1300 fps would need somewhat the same. If the BC was better it might be a bit less.

Larry Gibson

[tygar]

Yet I know guys shoot those big single shots with big bullets at 800-1000, maybe more. Shooting those subsonic must have the trajectory of a cannon ball.

If you take a look at those tall tang sights used for "long range" shooting you'll get an idea. It takes 150 - 175 +/- moa adjustment to go from a 100 yard zero to a 1000 yard zero with those "big single shots" depending on bullet and initial velocity. I would surmise a 200 - 220 gr cast bullet with a similar BC kicked out at 1100 - 1200 maybe 1300 fps would need somewhat the same. If the BC was better it might be a bit less.

Larry Gibson

Sure would hate to try & dope out one of those on a tactical course. Man 175+" elev. How can they even keep the front site on the target with that much rise?

Lets see I put 10 or 20 min base on the .308 & 6.5-284 F class guns & 0 on the 1k 300 mags under my Nightforces & they have what, 50 mins internal. So I'd have to put a 125 min base under them to equal that much. lol

How about drift? With that slo speed & a 200+gr bullet I bet it is significant per 10mph.

Think I'll stick with my hi BCs going fast for 500-1k.

[Larry Gibson]

Think I'll stick with my hi BCs going fast for 500-1k.

Me too......except when I'm shooting my 45-70 TD target rifle......but then it has a very tall rear sight...........

Larry Gibson

[tygar]

Me too......except when I'm shooting my 45-70 TD target rifle......but then it has a very tall rear sight...........

Larry Gibson[/QUOTE]

LOL

[Doc Highwall]

The black powder bullets have a more rounded nose in order to be more stable in the transition from super sonic flight to subsonic flight, no pointy bullets being shot at long range with good results that I ever heard of.

[John Boy]

Long range accuracy with loads that leave the muzzle super-sonic and hit the target sub-sonic are completely possible. The BPCR long range shooting competition crowd does it all the time.Tis a fact but not using 30 caliber lead bullets with black powder. 40 calibers to 50 ... 420 gr up & including 560gr bullets

Have had good success out to 500m with the Ideal 311413 'Squabb' spitzer using BP & smokeless. Further? Hail Mary, Full of Grace![smilie=b:

[Reverend Recoil]

What kind of scores are you fellows getting with your cast bullets at 600 or 1000yd?

[waco]

I have not got to try any of my new loads yet. NOE 311365 in a .308
94592

[300blk]

I may be showing my ignorance here, and thats ok. I got to thinking about a setup that could handle such a task. I think a magnum length action chambered in 30-06 with something akin to a pointed NOE @247 ( http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?products_id=206 ) a 1x10 twist rate and throated to fit. my imagining is you could push 2300 fps or so without a helluva lot of trouble.