Value Question

[Harter66]

I have an oppertunity to pick up an sks and an Arisaka the price seems right but I know squat about value of the Arisaka. I'm told that it is in good shape and that it was a south Pacific pickup. Can somebody give me some make guide lines and value guides for the 7.7 in an early war class ? As of now I don't know if (and if I'm mistaken don't beat me plz) a 38 or 99.

Any help is more than I had. This is as of now a sight unseen deal so I have no particulars.

[Nora]

Can't help with the value but would say to look at the front part of the receiver. If it has a chrysanthemum stamped into it then it is indeed a war souvenir. If it has been ground off then it was not and would be worth less on the collectors market.

Nora

[Shooter]

surplusrifle.com has some info on Jap rifles.

[mooman76]

I can't help much on the $ value but the more it has on it, the more it is worth. Mine is a ditch rifle so not worth much except it does have the mum in tact. They were ordered ground off at the end of the war. Mine was put together toward the end of the war and were running out of supplies. No moveable sites, put together with nails. That's why they call it a (last) ditch rifle. Some earlier ones had aircraft sites and other attachments. These guns were a dime a dz but they are starting to dewindle down a bit but still easy to find if you look.

[Uncle Grinch]

I just looked at 3 at a local pawn shop and in fair to semi-good condition (no mum) they were asking from $125 - $175 each. No matching numbers, but they appeared complete.

[Harter66]

This actually helps a lot thanks.

The sks is milled, scoped and "goodyized" so I think the offered price will be worth it.
2 more w/ no paper trail!

[Dutchman]

If it has a chrysanthemum stamped into it then it is indeed a war souvenir. If it has been ground off then it was not


This really isn't true.

Any U.S. soldier or sailor who wanted to bring a Japanese rifle home from Japan or the islands could pick one up from a pile. All the rifles in those piles had defaced mums, yes, some by grinding and some by an X made by a bayonet blade across the mum with a hammer. These are still considered war souvenirs. They don't carry the romance of one taken off a dead body in a cave on Guadalcanal or Iwo Jima but they're still war booty. I would not be so quick to degrade such a rifle simply because the mum was ground or otherwise defaced.

I handled one of the ugliest beat up junker Arisaka "last ditch" in the mid-west once. I didn't know it until somebody told me but it was from Jinsen arsenal in Korea. I paid $50 for it. It sold for a whole lot more than $50 within a few weeks. Japanese Arisakas have come into their own, finally, as collectible war relics. I'd bet there's a couple dozen guys in this forum, like me, who remember seeing Arisaka rifles with bayonets standing in the garage corner of our friends homes dozens of times growing up. All of them were "bring backs". None of them were bought cheap. It's taken a long time for these rifles to be respected for what they are. Let's not be so quick to tear them down over a ground mum. That's not what the stewardship of collecting historical artifacts is about.

There are some old timers in the collecting community that can tell you what island a rifle came from by the way the mum was defaced. I heard this from Dick Hobbs (author of "The Carcano") once long ago. MacArthur gave orders to deface the mums. Some escaped defacement, some didn't.

Dutch

[Mike Venturino]

Dutchman: Here, Here! For most of my life I was one of those denigrators of Japanese weapons. I bought my first Type 99 with a box of Norma 7.7mm ammo for $12.50 in 1973, shot the ammo and sold the rifle for $15. I thought I'd done well.

Now I have a Type 38 rifle, Type 38 carbine, Type 97 sniper rifle, Type 99 rifle, Type 99 paratrooper rifle, Type 14 Nambu pistol, and a Japanese navy Type 92 Lewis Machine Gun (infantry model). And just last month somebody gave me a very nice condition Type 44 carbine.

Some of these guns have mum and some don't. I really don't care. I have a lot more respect for them after gaining some experience shooting them. A World War II collection sure wouldn't be complete without them.

Mike V.

[John 242]

Harter66,
If it’s a 7.7mm then it’s probably a Type 99, however, there were some rare variants of the Type 99 manufactured like Mr. V’s paratroop version.

When I’m trying to figure out a rifle’s value, I go to Gun Broker and do a search for that model. Gun Broker’s prices serve as a general guide only, because overall condition, manufacturer, exact model, serial number range, along with many other factors affect the rifles value. (Note: With Gun Broker, watch for what rifles are actually selling for, and not what some Goober thinks it should sell for. You’ll notice that a lot of rifles have zero bids. There’s a reason for that.)

Many surplus rifle forums have a ‘For Sale’ section, which is a great source for getting a general idea of a rifles value. For example, a ‘Last Ditch’ Type 99 rifle is currently selling for $220 on one forum I frequent.

I hope this helps a little bit.
John

[Tazman1602]

You know I can't remember who wrote it, maybe someone else does. I've got an old 7.7 I reblued/rebuilt 25 years ago when I started working on guns -- actually I lied, I had two but one would burst the case everytime it fired even though it was accurate. Even got a nice deer with it.

On the writing, *someone* did a test I read on that action a number of years back and they billed it as the strongest action ever made bar none. The test they did was to take some pumped up 30-06's, duct tape the rifle down to a table, and proceed to attempt to blow it up. I don't remember the exact results but I do remember they were unable to blow it up with '06's.

Maybe it was Rick Jamison? OOPS..........are we allowed to mention him here <grin> I sure miss Rick's articles.................

As a rifle it's ugly as sin but they actually shoot fairly well.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Mine is a ditch rifle so not worth much except it does have the mum in tact. They were ordered ground off at the end of the war. Mine was put together toward the end of the war and were running out of supplies. No moveable sites, put together with nails. That's why they call it a (last) ditch rifle.

the Last Ditch rifles are quite collectable...Don't think it's "not worth much"
I bought 4 foreign rifles in the early 1990's for $25 each. a "original" Dutch Beaumont, a original Swiss Veterlli (41 rimfire), a italian Vetterli that had been sleeved down to 6.5mm, and a Jap. last ditch (even though the one peice stock was made with three peices of wood nailed together, it looked fairly good, Metal was very much "unfinished"and the bore was rough at best). About 10 years ago I swapped the Jap and 2 tough looking carcanos for a sweet Sako Finnbear L61R in 30-06 that I valued at the time for around $800. The buyer wanted that Jap lots more than the carcanos.
Jon

PS. I really wish I kept that Swiss 41, besides the incredible figure in the stock, the metal fit and finish was great also. It's just tough to keep something around you can't shoot...I did attempt to shoot it with some 100+ year old ammo, the first round went pfft and lodged the bullet 6" into the barrel, after I removed that slug, I desided to not shoot it and sold the remaining ammo and gun.

[leadman]

P.O.Ackley was the one that did the destructive testing and wrote about it in his book. Others may also have done testing.
Just about any WWII and prior arms that are still in original condition are worth preserving in my opinion.
I do have some old rifles that were "sporterized" before I bought them and I enjoy shooting them as they are part of our forefathers history. Some show very inventive way to make them more shootable for hunters.

[Harter66]

Thanks ,
I know that overall condition,matching numbers and what not.

I just kinda wanted a ball park I know the prices of everything have jumped in the last few years.

I was thinking it was Col.Whelen that cut a chamber for a 30-06' in a 6.5 just to see if he could it up.

[flounderman]

I will have to repeat a friends story about his bring back jap. him and another guy were given the job of guarding a warehouse full of jap rifles and spent the night selecting the best one. he brought it home and sent it to p.o. ackley to barrel to 22-250. he spent all winter building a stock for it. the first time he shot it, it blew up. ackley had used reformed 30-06 brass when he proofed it and he said he guessed he cut the extractor slot too deep. it blew when the 250 savage brass was used. my friend never forgave ackley for his mistake and according to him, ackley never would compensate him for it.

[3006guns]

I collect Japanese rifles, so a quick word of caution......

If the rifle has any other symbol than the 16 petal crysanthemum (or a ground spot) WATCH IT. The Japanese had subcontractors that made a very good copy of the type 38 (the early, long rifle) that was for training purposes and they are NOT made for firing...strictly for drill and handling only. Other clues would be rather rough workmanship (not to be confused with a late, shorter type 99) a brief or no serial number and the wrist tangs are made in one piece (they are two piece on the actual type 38).

These trainers are getting collector recognition in the last 10 years or so, but are very convincing.....enough that people in the past have tried firing live ammo with predictible results.

[obssd1958]

I might add my one little experience:
Bought a sporterized 99, with a ground off mum. All looked nice, but I was warned about the possibility it had been rechambered for '06. Told it was a common thing to do to the 7.7. So I did a chamber cast. 30-06. The rifle still had a 7.7 bore though.
No problem - I cast my own boolits, so I'll just cast them to fit the bore!
Load my ammo and go to the range - click... no mark on the primer. Cycle the bolt, pull the trigger again - click... still no mark on the primer.
Back home, bolt comes out, find out how to disassemble it, take it apart, broken firing pin. [smilie=b:
I looked everywhere, including this forum, for a firing pin, to no avail. Everyone wanted to sell the entire bolt - at almost the same price as what I payed for the whole rifle!!
I ended up selling it to a friend who wanted it for parts for a project he was working on. Of course, he got full disclosure on everything I knew about the rifle!

YMMV


Don

[Mike Venturino]

That broken firing pin thing happened to me with my Nambu 8mm pistol. The darn thing evidently broke firing pins so commonly that their holsters came with a slot for a spare.

Getting it up and running wasn't that difficult. A fellow whose name escapes me right now "re-pins" broken ones and makes new ones. I got both so now my repro-Nambu holster has its spare pin slot filled.

MLV

[Harter66]

Thanks again ,

I picked them up. The storey goes something like my uncle took it off a deccesed combatant but didn't make it home my dad received it with my uncles effects.

Is tar black all over normal?

The bore is decent . It is sportered with a williams rear sight and a front ramp that looks quite like an old model 70. The parts seem to match although I've not yet had time to look for assembly # . It has a 6 digit number on the trigger guard and the mum is ground away.

Sadly both rifles look like they were oiled all over and left in a draft. Just unloved dirty. That's why there's guys like us I guess pick up the ugly ducklings dust them off tell them they're swans and take them to the ball.