Jungle Carbine

[Shooter]

I had to run some errands today, so I swung by a local gun shop.

I found a No5Mk1 with matching numbers and a good bore. $350 later, it followed me home.

I have wanted one since I was a kid, but Dad always said they weren't accurate, wandering zero,etc, etc, get a Mauser. So, I missed my chance at 1950's pricing.

It is a Farzakerley made in December of 1945. I my have paid too much but they seem to be climbing in value.

Funny thing, this all started with a set of 310 dies and a box of Remmington brass I got in a box of junk from a gun show. I now have 2 rifles to go with it.

Will the Cruffler madness ever cease?

[Boz330]

That is probably a fair to good price, for you. I paid that several years ago (maybe 5 or 6) for a really nice one. They do get your attention with full house loads though. I just picked up a Santa Fe JC that I am redoing the stock on it right now. It is going to be a cast boolit rifle though. If it doesn't shoot it might become a 303-35 or 303-375.

Bob

[NickSS]

I had one years ago and they do seam to kick extra hard compared to a No 4 but mine shot well and I think that the wandering zero may be due to poor bedding than to anything inherrent in the rifle. You need to remember that they were made during the war with relaxed QC. I sold mine to a friend who went into the National park service as a ranger. He used that rifle for 30 years to cull animals in 4 National parks where he worked over those years and he swears by it as it could be bounced around in a pickup truck for weeks and still work flawlessley when he needed it.

[Bloodman14]

Ian Skennerton found that the 'wandering zero' was related to the lightening cuts in the receiver, as well as 'other' metal removal. A No. 5 built from a No. 4 should have all the metal intact. Get his "Small Arms Identification Series" book on the No. 4s; it will tell you what to look for in a 'buildup' No. 5.

[Shooter]

This is a sure 'nuff No. 5 complete with cuts.

It is proofed for sale, but has no importers stamping so it's been here for a while.

I cleaned some copper fouling out and shot it a couple times in a snow squall.

A 314299 over 25 Gr. of 4064 gave minute of pine cone at about 25 yards with the sight set the same as my No.4 Mk 1.

It shows promise.

[curator]

Shooting cast boolits in the No.5 takes a lot of the stress off the lightened action. The wandering zero problem doesn't usually show up with the lighter cast loads. I have a Bubba'ed No. 5 minus the flash hider and set in a el-cheapo plastic stock bedded in Bondo auto body putty. It shoots as accurately as most of my modern bolt rifles. My daughter has bagged three good sized Panhandle deer this year with the Lee 185/312 boolit made from wheel-weights over 18 grains of 2400. She loves this handy little carbine which rides behind the seat in her pick-up.

[leadman]

$350 for a good shooting #5 doesn't seem too bad. About $100 to $150 more than what #4 MKI are going for around here. And you don't see either one for sale everyday.

[pietro]

IIRC when I had mine, a real No.5 has a flat left receiver wall, and the conversions a rounded/full left wall.

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[squirrelnuttz]

The going rate for a No 5 Mk. 1 is around $450- 500 in great shape here. If you can find one. Not many all original, non Bubba'd carbines left. Even with the amount of .303 Enfields kicking around up here, mostly No.1 Mk. 3's or No. 4's. And everything costs more in Canada.

[Shooter]

After Cleaning the bore with Sweet's 762, Shooter's Choice, and Kroil over the weekend, I got a chance for a short try on paper.

The Carbine shot a 1.5" five shot group @ 50 yards. This was a hasty session with the rifle rested in a rod holder while I leaned against the boat.:redneck:

The load was 25 Gr. IMR 4064 under a Lyman 314299 water dropped WW.
I would like to say I worked it up, but the truth is I gleaned it from the registered military match data in an old Fouling Shot.

It was in the 3-4 '04 issue, used by D. Walliser of the Arizona Cast Bullet Shooters.
It has shot good in all my Enfields.

This carbine will make a great truck gun. I hope to whack a coyote soon.

[JudgeBAC]

314299 sized .314 in front of 20 grs. of XMP 5744 works well in my #4s. 5744 is working out very well in all of my milsurps. This has turned out to be a great cast boolit powder.

[Boz330]

Around 20gr of 4759 is a good powder as well in the 30 cal milsurps. It has become my go to powder in them.

Bob

[bradh]

I don't think $350 is out of line in todays market. Bought mine in 1957 at Millers
Surplus in Ontario, CA. Paid $24.95 and still have it! Shot maybe six or seven
deer with it over the years...

[1Shirt]

It is all about supply and demand!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Multigunner]

Wandering zero didn't effect all No.5 Carbines, but was enough of a concern to limit its usefullness.
A British Armmorer wrote that No.5 carbines brought to his depot for repair sometimes had sheared through key pins at the rear sight pivot, a sign that the rear receiver walls had spread or flexed under heavy firing.
If no No.5 action bodies were available the Carbine would be stripped and parts transfered to a No.4 action body, the problems apparently then went away.

Shifting of zero was not that uncommon for the No.4 Rifles manufactured under WW2 wartime pressure. Reynolds wrote that zero was often found to have shifted between the time the rifle was sighted at the factory and delivery to the front lines.
Cordite propellent was in part responsible for shift in zero of a rifle sighted in at an English or North American factory then delivered to a tropical clime.
Long before WW2, British sporting arms manufacturers had discovered that ambient temperatures made a great difference in chamber pressures and velocity of cartridges loaded using double base propellents. The higher the nitro content the greater the variation in velocity at high temperatures.
Modern Double Base powders use a relatively low nitro content and moderators to avoid high pressures, but target shooters building maximum velocity loads in Northern States have had pressure problems at matches in Western States.

With a short barrel, variations in propellent gas impulse are magnified. A rifle sighted in at dawn may print far to one side at noon.
The flexing of the Enfield Action Body, which requires an offset front sight base to compensate, adds to the situation. The more the body can flex, the greater the shift in POI.

[Multigunner]

IIRC when I had mine, a real No.5 has a flat left receiver wall, and the conversions a rounded/full left wall.

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You may be thinking of the Jungle Carbine clone built on the SMLE type action. Australia tested a few on the Lithgow action using several different types of rear sight. The fakes don't have the sights used by the test versions.

The Real No.5 left receiver wall is flat except for a bevel cut under the rear sight. Otherwise the main differences between the No.4 action Body and No.5 action body aren't easy to spot while the fore end is in place.

The lack of the extra metal along the right hand action rail, where the cut off plate slot would have been for the early No.4 trials rifles, leaves less steel to resist action body flex or stretching from heavy loads.
IIRC the modern replica No.4 in .308 made by AIA also doesn't have as much metal there, but the overall the AIA action body has more metal than the original No.4, just distributed differently. The AIA also has an enclosed rear bolt path so receiver wall spreading should not be a problem with those rifles.