405 Win. 1895 Experience

[doubs43]

For those who followed my original post about my new 1895 Winchester rifle chambered in 405, here is what I've experienced so far. This may help others who own rifles in this caliber.

While I have no idea what rate of twist original rifles in .405 Winchester were given, I read that the current Miruko rifles are 1:10 and that seems about right judging by my rifle.

After mounting a Williams FP-71-TK peep sight, I cast bullets using a Lyman mold that drops a .413" slug at 288 grains. I sized them to .412". It's a round nose design with minimal bearing surface and to make a long story short, it's shoots poorly in my rifle. My best 10 shot group at 108 yards measured 4" and the rest were worse. I tried lots of loads using various powders and nothing shot well. IMO, it's not heavy enough and doesn't have sufficient bearing surface to be accurate in a 1:10 twist bore. I had fliers and even the POI shifted. Discouraging to say the least.

Fellow member Sliphammer had graciously sent 20 cast bullets that weighed 322 grains.... a bore-rider design with a gas check. I gave them a try thinking it couldn't get worse and happily it didn't.

I loaded Sliphammer's bullets using 30.0 and 31.0 grains of Swiss SPP-210 powder (4198 equivalent) and a small piece of dacron filler to hold the powder in place. The bullets were seated and crimped in the crimping groove.

Both loads shot nicely centered 10 shot groups under 3" at 108 yards. While not exactly world class, IMO that's not bad for a lever action and it's a place to start to refine my loads. No doubt the groups would have been better if my aiming had been tighter.

Now I'm patiently waiting for a 325 grain bore-rider Mountain Mold that I believe will shoot very nicely in my rifle. I'll let you know in a few months once I get the mold and can work with the bullets awhile.

[405]

In the realm of large lever guns.... under 3" at 100 is very good if not near the best of what can be expected. I know that I lose maybe 1 MOA of resolution from 100 yds on out with the best aperture, non-glass sights. I think that even when I was 20 yrs old with 20-10 vision I could have been losing something like 1/2 MOA of resolution. So that 3" group is likely even better than 3" given the sight resolution. I also used MM for a GC bullet to fit my 405. It is not a bore rider design but is a 320 gr GC with a nose profile and length as close to an original jacketed soft point as I could design on the MM program. After all, the 405 1895 was designed especially for "semi-pointed", long round nose jacketed soft point bullets. :)

Oh BTW, my gun has a 14" twist as is the standard for the originals. Don't know what the repros have.

[doubs43]

Thanks 405 for the original twist rate. In all likelihood the Lyman bullet would do much better in a 1:14 twist.

In Ken Water's "Pet Loads", he has his best accuracy with 414 grain cast bullets. I had even considered having a 350 grain mold made by MM but I shoot 320 grain bullets in my 38-55 and 45-70 with excellent accuracy and so I settled on a 325 grain design. With a bit of experimenting I hope to reduce my groups to 2.5 MOA or even slightly better. After using Sliphammer's bullets, I think it's possible. At 67 years young, I really do need the peep sight for best accuracy.

[frank505]

The RCBS 350 grain 416 gas check bullet will shoot very well and kill very well. We shoot em at 2125FPS with Re7 or Varget.

[Don McDowell]

My 405 from 2002 has a 14 inch twist and shoots the Lyman bullet very well. It also does well with the RCBS bullet for the 416 and the 300 gr bullet from the Buffalo Arms mould.
It also shoots the 300 gr SS from North Fork extremely well.

[doubs43]

Frank & Don, thank you both for the information. I may try the 350 grain RCBS bullet.

Don, what make & model rifle from 2002 do you have?

[Don McDowell]

It's a winchester 95.

[451whitworth]

it's interesting to me that alot of shooters of the M95 in 405wcf shoot darn near the same load. i shoot a 350gr. LBT LFN @.414" with RL-7 or RL-15 at 2125-2150 fps. the defunct RL-12 is a great powder too.

[JFE]

Have you slugged your barrel ?

I have a late model 1895 in 405 Win and it measures 0.4125 groove diameter and a bore diameter (as near as I can measure) of 0.405. Twist is 1 in 14".

[tcrocker]

4" at 100yds sounds preaty good to me. You must remember it's a hunting rifle not a bench rest gun.

[6pt-sika]

4" at 100yds sounds preaty good to me. You must remember it's a hunting rifle not a bench rest gun.

While I've never owned or fired a 405 WIN , you might be surprised what one can get from a lever action hunting rifle in the 444 or 45-70 class with a decent glass on top .

And with that being said I see nothing wrong with a sub 3" group from a peep sighted rifle at 100 yards for 3 shots much less TEN ;)

[Bullshop]

My 405 is on a B-78 Browning (1885) action and will do 1.5MOA for three shots at 100 yards and sometimes a bit better.
This with a 410gn custom at 2100 fps. It also shoots the RCBS 416/350 way good too.
I think I remember it having a 1/14" twist and the barrel grooves slugged at .4125"
It seems to like boolits sized at .415"
The 1885 may be a bit more stout than the 1895 so I dont know if a 95 is up to the same loads.
Comparing the 405/400 to the 45/70/400 both in the 2000 fps range the 40 cal seems to add about another 100 yards of usable hunting range over the 45. Where I feel the 45 is good to about 200 yards I put the 40 at closer to 300. The 40/400 will out penetrate the 45/400 but neither are lacking there.

[Heavy lead]

I'd take a 3" 10 shot group with irons anyday, we all like those one holers, but my 44 year old eyes for one are not capable of it, without a merit eyepiece and such. I've got a 95 Browning I just picked up and am about ready to start loading for it. I'm going to put a Lyman 21 on it first though, won't even shoot it with the buckhorn on it, for me it'll be a waste of time.
Question for you, was there any modifications you needed to do to the Williams peep, or were you able to just drill and tap for the 95? I'd rather go this route, as the sight will be more user friendly.

[Don McDowell]

Heavy lead, the newer Winchesters come drilled and tapped for the reciever sights. You might want to look at the lyman 66 WB available from Buffalo Arms.
If you go the climin lyman route you'll have to have a hole drilled and tapped at the back of the reciever, and a screw made for the metric threads for the front screw.
If I were to going to do this 95 all over again I'ld go with the reciever sight.
Altho some of the best groups I shot with the rifle were when I mounted a One Ragged Hole in place of the factory buckhorn.