case trimmer

[jballs918]

wells guys im coming ot the source on htis one. im doing 223 right now and i have figured out that the lee case cutter is complete crap. not that im dogging lee they make some good things this is not one of them lol. now my question is i need to get some ideas of what everyone uses. please tell me what you got and how good it works thanks agian guys

[dragonrider]

I use a lyman case trimmer, the manual one, although I power it with a cordless drill. I don't see how it could get any easier. And the stops make it very accurate.

[Hunter]

I have been using a Hornady manual case trimmer several years now (you can chuck a drill to it and save a lot of time and elbow grease). I really am partial to Hornady reloading equipment as I believe them to make first rate stuff and the case trimmer is no exception.

[GP100man]

jb i use the rcbc trimmer once set up you can go thru alot of brass qwik.
especially when you power it up with a drill

[Hip's Ax]

I have a Redding trimmer and I am very happy with it. This one turns the case and not the cutting head. Uses a collet and not shell holders. Haven't used any other brand so I can't comment on a comparison. Had it around 5 years now and always performs well even when I'm doing 500 cases at a time.

[Ross]

I know that I'm excessively contrarian, but I like the Lee.
I have Grigsby, Smiley, Lyman, RCBS, Forster, Wilson and they all work just fine.
The Forster drill press trimmer is what I have used in the past for longer runs of serious case shortening. Keeping the collet clear was always the slow-down.
With the Lee, (not the Zip-Trim) I chuck the cutter in the drill press or lathe and offer the case to it. I do not have to stop and start the motor for each case, but just change the case in the holder. It is not necessary to clear swarf from a collet for each case and that helps speed things. Deburring takes extra time though a sharp cutter and correct feed and speed minimizes that.
I've never even seen the Dillon or Gracey tools, but those who have them are great fans of them.
Cheers from Darkest California,
Ross

[Bent Ramrod]

I use a Forster for neck-sized only cases where the rifle seems to do unusually well accuracy-wise and/or I don't have a lot of cases to do. The Lyman (motorized with a power drill) comes in where I have a lot of cases to do and the rifle probably doesn't do under MOA anyway.

I use file trim dies sometimes, but these need full-length sized cases to work, and sometimes I don't want to do that. Also they're relatively expensive, and specific to one case only. When I can find them at the right price at gun shows, I'll pick them up, but I don't go looking for them specifically.

But I do agree with Ross; if you have a drill press, the sheer cost-effectiveness and time-savings of that little Lee hand trimmer in the chuck beats everything. Don't have to full-length size, and, best of all, no tiresome settings to check, recut, check again and vigilantly guard against loosening. There is the issue of the number of mandrels and holders you wind up with, but they're cheaper than file-trim dies. I wish the holder and base were larger and easier to loosen and tighten, but it's pretty good even so.

[anachronism]

I use a Gracey. Kind of expensive to start out with, but it blows my Lyman power trimmer out of the water! Another excellent choice is the Giraud, which is even more expensive (about $350.00). Speed costs money...

[grumpy one]

I have three trimmers, but one of them I don't use - the Lee - because it measures from the front of the web inside the case, instead of the back of the case. Because web thickness varies, the result is variable case lengths. Another one I almost don't use - I've relegated it to 30-30 only, and my 30-30's almost never need trimming - because it centers on the primer recess instead of the outside of the rim, so it has considerable runout - 0.035" Total Indicator Reading is not unusual. This translates into a slightly out of square case mouth - about .0015" across a 30 caliber case mouth.

The trimmer I actually use, is a Forster. It grabs the outside of the rim in a collet, so concentricity is extremely good, and the bearing that locates the pilot and cutter is large diameter and very closely fitted. The outcome is really nice, accurate trimming and a machine that won't wear out - but it is a bit slow. I minimize the slowness issue by swiping my cases through a gauge, and only trimming the ones that won't go through it.

I personally don't care for use of bench-drills because of the end-float in the drill's spindle, which results in considerable variation in length of the trimmed cases.

Having said all that, if you're not crimping it may be that the final case length isn't all that critical - I just do it "right" because I don't know whether it matters or not. The trimmer that centers the case on the primer recess, though, is a really bad idea - out of square case mouths have to be a bad thing.

[floodgate]

grumpy:

"I don't use the Lee because it measures from the front of the web inside the case, instead of the back of the case."

My Lee case trimmers (I have one each for most of the calibers I load for) index off the face of the locking plug or drill-press stem, THROUGH the flash-hole (with the case de-primed, of course); that should be quite accurate headspace-wise. Yours sound like a different setup.

floodgate

[grumpy one]

Doug, you're right as usual. I've always thought it only used the pin that goes through the flash-hole for alignment, and headspaced off the front of the web, but the pin actually bears on the base plug that screws through the shell-holder, and that is the case length reference point. You've convinced me that Lee did a better job than I've always thought they did, on this product.

It does look to me, though, as if the Lee shares the weakness of my el cheapo trimmer in that it centers on the flash-hole, not the case rim. It will therefore cut the case mouth at an angle unless by a miracle that particular case has the flash-hole in the center of the base.

Geoff

[Bret4207]

I used the Lee set up for years. I had a problem with 32-20 brass that would shorten after firing rather than lengthen. On top of that they wouldn't all be the same length after firing. I used the Lee in a drill press and it was fast but left some cases untouched. After pondering and bemoaning my poor lot in life for a couple years ( I ain't all that bright) it occured to me to take a file and shorten the pilot on the Lee trimmer. Bingo! Now all the cases were the same length, if a bit shorter than SAAMI standards. Groups that had been in the 3" range now hovered around 1-1.5" . Ah, the joys of consistant crimp!

Later in life, after becoming a world famous crime fighter and friend to small children, dogs and beautiful women everywhere, I aquired a Forster trimmer. It took about 63 cases to determine a power option was needed. Off came the handle and the $7.00 Ryobi cordless screwdriver was attached post haste. Heaven gents! I know the Forster is "supposed" to be less accurate than the Wilson type trimmers, but I'm half blind anyway and until I get one of those $5000.00 bench rest type rifles, I don't think it's going to affect my shooting. I like having all the gadgets in one tool- trimmer, neck turner, hollow pointer. I wish they had a combo inside/outside de-burrer like RCBS or whoever has that setup, but a quick twist of the wrist or the drill press takes care of that problem. Besides, I like the color.

[9.3X62AL]

Another Forster fan here. I've never compared the system to the Wilson arrangement, but how accurate does CASE TRIMMING need to be? My Forster is well within .001", which I think is fine for setting consistent crimps.

[Ross]

The three potential accuracy problems with the Lee trimmer I see are the presence of a dent on the base that would space the case away from the lock stud and produce a short case;
The play in the difference in inside neck diameter and gauge rod diameter combined with the eccentricity of the vent would produce an angular discrepancy affecting squareness of the case mouth (as Geoff observes).
The base irregularity can be easily dealt with and the angular problem, I suspect, would be negligible in practice. A geometrician will easily be able to determine the angular out of squareness.
Trimmers with collet closers have a swarf problem that makes length vary. My Forster bed flexes when I get too vigorous with it and I get out-of-square mouths.
With all that I still generally use the Lee with the cutter chucked in a drill press.
Cheers from Darkest California,
Ross

[grumpy one]

Ross, you can easily calculate the effect of the flash hole not being in the center of the base of the case. Consider a 30-30 case two inches long. Consider a runout of the flash hole of 0.035", which is the reading I had from two cases out of ten sample rifle cases when I checked this a year ago. Now, with the case pivoting about the pilot at the case mouth, it is a simple lever calculation to work out the amount the case mouth will be out of square: the case mouth diameter of 0.30" divided by the case length of 2", multiplied by 0.035" - the case mouth will be out of square by 0.00525", which is pretty bad for a rifle case. However if you had the misfortune to trim say 45 ACP cases with a Lee, and also had the flash hole runout 0.035, it will give a far worse result. I don't have a 45 case, but say its length is 0.75", and its case mouth diameter is 0.45". 0.45 divided by 0.75 multiplied by 0.035 is 0.021", and that is how far the case mouth will be out of square. That amount would be easily visible just holding the case up to the light and looking at it.

Most people probably don't have especially high expectations for pistol accuracy, and may tolerate a certain amount of out-of-squareness, but when it gets visible, I'd expect them to be dissatisfied. So far as rifle cases are concerned, some tall narrow-necked critter like a 25-06 may not be considered unsatisfactory with its neck two or three thousandths out of square, depending on your standards. However I'd rather have square case mouths myself.

Geoff