69 cal Rifle

[Rafe Covington]

A friend has a 69 cal rifle he bought from a company called October Country, he says it has the Forsyth rifling [ 1 in 120 in twist ]. Not familiar with this company, any info would be appreciated.

Rafe Covington:redneck:

[northmn]

I do not know much about October Country but would like to get a description of the rifle. There was one company making English Sporting rifes in large bore. The military English Baker Rifle had a 1-20 twist and performed well. A 69 would be a formidible caliber.

DP

[waksupi]

I had a .62 with 1-120 twist. It took 170 gr. of 3f to really perform. It killed at both ends!
I believe October Country has a pretty good reputation.

[Alan]

Link to the web site:
http://www.octobercountry.com/rifles.php

they certainly charge enough for quality. :shock:

The Baker fired a form-fit boolit. 1:20 would be hideous for a PRB.

.69 (14-bore) was the preferred caliber for heavy game in India.

Alan

[northmn]

You may be confusing the Baker with the Brunswick. The Brunswick was a percussion that used a ball with a ring around it to fit in the rifling. The Baker was shot often with paper cartridges or patching. Standard load was 110 grains of military powder. The twist was one turn in 10 feet or 1-120. As bores get larger as in the 69, the slower twist becomes less radical. There has been quite a bit of debate on twists with round ball. I have a 50 with a 1-70 twist that shoots 50 grain charges very well. Round ball does seem to be all that fussy about twist and the rules of thumb can be argued.

DP

[curator]

Actually the .62 caliber Baker rifle suffered from loss of accuracy beyond 100 yards due to its too slow twist. As Waksupi points out it can stabelize the ball with heavy powder charges and higher velocity but will "kill on both ends." As caliber increases, twist can decrease and still stabelize a ball. A 20 gauge (.615) ball needs at least one turn in 90 inches to stabalize at normal (under 1200 fps) velocities. A .69 caliber gun can stabelize a ball at 1 in 120 as long as velocity is 1000 fps and higher. I have a Model 1842 .69 caliber rifle with 1 in 72 twist and it is quite accurate out to 100 yards with velocities hovering around 1000fps.

[Alan]

I think we were talking past each other there: I was referring to a 1:20" twist and you were talking 1:120". Yest, 1:120" is a bit too slow. October Country's web site lists the twist at 1:104, which should be fine with charges down to 120-130 gr.

Note the powder charges at the bottom of this page: http://pacificriflecompany.blogspot.com/

I want one! 8)

Alan

[northmn]

Looking at the October Country's offering I suspect they may be a bit more pleasant to shoot than some of the other traditional rifles. They base their styling on the English sporting rifle which in its day was used in some pretty heavy calibers. I have one still in the making but shootable in a 58 whcih is more pleasant to shoot than a Hawken style. My English style buttplate is 2 inches wide and 5 deep. Hawkens were about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 wide and deeply curved to the straight profile of the English. Also the English designed the comb to kick away from the face. All that being said the big bores will still kick like H--l. October Country uses modern recoil pads. There were some pretty long shots made with the Baker, but as is common on some of this folklore, some were made by a very few very talented shots and probably were loaded to the situation. Some were also likely pure luck. Typically one does not use the really big bores for longer shooting, even though they work much better. A 69 with a round ball is more effective than the "modern" developments for the 50.

DP

[Good Cheer]

The .69 Fremont (33" shorty version of the 1842) is about as wild as I want to get. You'd have to make it a flinter to get any better. I really oughta take it hog hunting just to see how it does.

[John Taylor]

When I was in Idaho, John Shorb owned October Country. He was in to big bores and 62 was the smallest he would talk about. He liked the 8 bore double. They called him "big smoke" if I remember correctly. Shot against him many time at rendezvous. He sold the company several years back and I lost track of him. He started out making leather shooting bags and powder horns.
I get calls occasionally for barrels with Forsyth rifling. These barrel have a very wide groove and narrow lands (about .050"). The idea is to shoot a round ball at high velocity. They are usually very easy to load and accurate. For more info on Forsyth visit http://underhammers.blogspot.com/