S&w59?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I have been offered a trade on one but don’t know anything about them. What can you all tell me about a S&W59?

The only experience I have had with S&W Automatics was with a 9mm Ladysmith. It had a gritty DA trigger pull, and the worst SA pull I have ever felt, but I am not about to base a whole line of pistols on one experience. How is reliability, accuracy, trigger pull, etc..? I have shot a number of Beretta 92FS pistols and I have always found them accurate and the trigger pulls pretty good, and I do like the SA/DA trigger design.

Thanks

[shotman]

if you have small hands you wont like it . Also you will have to learn to shoot it .Its like a 45 acp colt they are hard to master I have one but like the sig much better

[Calamity Jake]

+1 on the small hands and the S&W 59, but I like mine, it shoots the Lyman 356242 120gr RN at .357 very well. I also have an RCBS 09-124-CN but haven't had time to shoot any yet.
The M59 has a history of the gun being in the cocked condition then droped it could have an AD, but that could happen with any auto if it hits the ground just right.
As the gun is no longer made, parts are hard to find

[Char-Gar]

The Smith 59 was the first double stack magazine (high capacity) pistol made in the US and got the ball rolling. For that reason, it has a rather thick grip. I don't find that a problem, but some folks don't like it. My 59 is reliable and as accurate as a combat pistol ever needs to be.

I favor the Browning Hi-Power, but the 59 is a good solid pistol if it can be had for a reasonable price.

[HeavyMetal]

Few S&W auto's make the grade with me and the 59 isn't one of them! The fact that the same gun has had about 8 make over's in the last 15 years should be enough to convince anyone smith has been trying to get it right for at least that long!

And failed.

With out knowing more of the trade specific's I won't comment about good deal or not.

Things to be aware of: poor trigger on most and sights were only adjustable for windage at least on early guns.

So unless your getting a steller deal, cash value less than 150, pass.

[Gunsmoke4570]

In general the older S&W autos are solid performers. Not top of the class in any category, but good service guns. So yes, a Beretta or Sig would be a more refined auto, but a comparable condition example will cost a good bit more. I've never used any of the 9mm variety, but I have experience with the .40 S&W and .45ACP guns and they shoot well will jackets or cast and I have never had any functioning issues. Pricing I would say between $200 (G-VG) and $300 (VG-Excellent). Online auctions are generally trying to get $300+ for G-VG examples which is a bit of a stretch.

[cajun shooter]

First Heavy metal is wrong about the S&W auto's. I have attended 5 S&W schools and will tell you that all S&W guns are hand fitted and do not go to the next stage until they pass full inspections at each checkpoint. I have my paper work to back it up. If he does not like S&W then that is not a problem as we all should have our own favorites with out the next guy putting us down. S&W has made changes to all of it's guns just as other makers do also. When you buy a gun would you want one that the company has never improved or buy from a company that is changing it's guns to make them perform better for the buyers? The S&W 59 was the first High capacity 15 rd 9mm to be offered to the public. I have shot and worked on them. They are as others stated a mite big in the grip area for my hands. The grip is very important first step to good shooting. Don't base your choice of guns on how many rounds the magazine will hold. This country did that starting in the 80's and even gave a military contract to a foreign country. They have come back to better sense's and a lot of branches have went back to carrying the 45 ACP again. There are many things to consider when buying a gun for self defence. Your body size and your current experience with guns all around. You might be better off with a revolver at this time and when your skill level improves you can always purchase another gun. When I was an instructor my first thing to say was a hit with a 38 spl. is much better than a miss with a 44mag. If your hands are of the correct size and your skill level is at a point that you feel comfortable with the 59 then buy it and shoot it. When you go onto any forum or walk into any gun store and ask the question that you did, you will receive the Baskin Robbins answer. 31 different answers as everyone has the perfect flavor for them. The key words are for them. You have to have a gun that fits and feels as if it is a part of you when you extend that arm. You may listen to all the advise including mine but it is you who must feel right with it. Your down range results will tell you if you made the correct decision.

[ReloaderFred]

I have two of them, and a lot of experience with them. I sat across the table from the designer, Joe Norman, for two days while we worked on our Model 59's when I was rangemaster for our department. I could tell you a lot about them, but want to keep this short.

They're designed as a combat handgun, and as such, are fine, considering the small caliber (9x19), but with the proper ammunition, they will get the job done. They are by no means a target pistol, and were never designed to be one. The grip is fairly large, but even our female cops were able to shoot them just fine.

Magazines are still available, including +2 magazines that are flush fit, from MecGar. Elevation was adjusted by changing out the rear sight for a different height sight, but windage is easily adjusted via the conventional screw adjustment. Out of about 400 guns that my old department owned, I think we had to change roughly a dozen rear sights to bring them to point of aim with our duty ammunition .

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Tom-ADC]

Had a Mdl 39 and also felt the 59 was a double stack 39, I put a lot of rounds thru one years ago don't recall a malfunction but I liked my 39 much better.

[MtGun44]

Grip frame as handy as a 2x4 IMO. Would not take one as a gift. Late models were
greatly improved over the originals.

Bill

[NSP64]

I bought a model 59 back in 1981. sold it. Fits like a 2x4. Has mag out safety(won't fire if mag is removed). looong DA pull, lots of take up on SA pull. Shot good and accurate. Just was not for me.

[9.3X62AL]

Euromania is alive and well hereabouts. I greatly enjoyed a S&W Model 459 for many thousands of rounds, mostly cast boolits. S&W autopistols have the lead-friendliest factory barrels of ANY of the major service pistol brands. At least, the classic autopistols did. I don't have enough experience with the new-series M&P to comment on their lead-friendliness.

[S.R.Custom]

+1 to what Al said...

While personally I prefer the 59's predecessor, the 39, they both had very cast bullet friendly barrels. S&W was the only major MFR of 'duty' grade weapons that consistently manufactured barrels to the 9mm nominal standard of .355". Indeed, it wasn't uncommon to find these guns with .354" groove diameters, and sometimes a wee bit smaller.

As a result, accuracy was excellent... if you could master the trigger. Having worked on many over the years, those trigger mechanisms absolutely fascinated me. And I don't mean that in a good way. I'd look at those trigger bows with the riveted-on springy-tab thingies and how the whole mechanism was assembled, and I would wonder for hours what hallucinogenic drugs were employed in the design process...

[ReloaderFred]

S.R. Custom,

Joe Norman was the chief designer of the Model 39, Model 52 and Model 59 pistols. When the upgrades were done on the in-service Model 59's, S&W brought him back out of retirement to come up with the fix for the feeding and ejection problems in the early guns. I spent two very enjoyable days sitting across the work bench from him, replacing the parts he had designed to fix the problems, which they did. There were also very few 9x19 rounds to choose from at that time, which was part of the problem. S&W branded ammunition was made by Fiocchi, and the round most often adopted was the Winchester 100 gr. RNSP, which is a pretty stubby little cartridge.

Joe told me he invented the Model 39 for the Air force, but they never adopted it, so S&W released it to the public. I have one Model 39-2 and a Model 639. Both are good shooting pistols with both jacketed and cast bullets. He told me that S&W made the decision to go after the semi-auto pistol market for American Law Enforcement, so they asked him to come up with a double stack version of the Model 39, which he did. Everyone forgets that this was in the very early 1970's, when almost everyone in Law Enforcement was carrying a revolver and S&W was king. He used the slide assembly from the Model 39 and just redesigned the grip frame. That was the quickest way to get it on the market.

When the Model 59 first became popular, it was quite common to place an order and wait up to a year to get your gun. If I remember correctly, the first guns were in the range of about $170.00 for private Law Enforcement purchase. The next orders went up in price and that was when I ordered one for myself and the price was $207.00, delivered, through George F. Cake Co. I sold mine about a year later for $350.00.

When I retired in 1995, our department had changed over to a plastic pistol that started with a G. They were selling off the old guns to the officers, so I bought two 59's for $135.00 each, plus an unissued Model 19 for $120.00. I still have one of the Model 59's and the Model 19. I also traded for a nickel plated Model 59 about two years ago, since I didn't have a "pimp gun".........

Hope this helps.

Fred

[cajun shooter]

NSP64, The not able to fire without magazine can be fixed in a matter of minutes by any good S&W Armorer. I attended one S&W school called auto pistol and it was a combat type course where you were armed at all times with a full mag and chambered round. It was taught in the old Springfield part of the plant. My weapon which was a 39 which put me behind some of the guys present. When they did my safety check they asked why I had disabled the mag in safety feature. My answer was to make it a better combat gun. They grinned and gave me More magazines to stay even with the plastic 13 and up shot autos. Some of our class was Marine Helicopter Squadron 1. They were equipped with the Beretta 92. They were out shot by every police officer there including me with the 39. Goes to show how far training will take you. By the way in case you don't know that squad is who is with the President on the HELO.

[ReloaderFred]

Some decry the magazine safety, but I know two former Deputy Sheriffs who lived to retire because of the magazine safety on the Model 59. One was able to release the magazine on his 59 while fighting to keep a suspect high on drugs from shooting him with it. It was a hot summer night in the San Joaquin Valley and the Deputy was working alone, as we always did. The suspect jumped him as soon as he got out of the car and went for his Model 59. Sweaty hands make holding on to your gun a little difficult, along with a drug crazy guy trying to take it. When he realized he was about to lose the gun, he was able to hit the magazine release and let the guy have his pistol. He then drew his baton and went to work and was able to save his own life. When I got there, they were both laying on the ground, exhausted and beat up, but alive. The Deputy was able to get handcuffs on the suspect and then collapsed on top of him.

The other Deputy was saved when his soon to be ex-wife tried to shoot him, before the divorce he didn't know was about to happen...... She grabbed the pistol out of his gunbelt laying on a chair in their bedroom and he lunged for her, and it. She had a firm grip and was trying to get the safety off, and he was able to reach the magazine release and drop the magazine and then take the gun away from her, as she was pulling the trigger over and over....

As for me, I leave the magazine safety in the guns designed for it.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[9.3X62AL]

Dittoes to R-Fred's comments on the magazine disconnect AND the decock/safety on the 59-series pistols. I know of two officers on Riverside PD (CA) saved by these factors during street altercations.

[Multigunner]

The Double action pull is pretty sloppy, and the single action pull not much better. The grip is like holding a table leg. Outside of that my only complaint would be that mine is no where near as accurate as my old P-35.

I've often considered finding some parts for an upgrade.
There were some extended barrels with threaded muzzle available at Numrich years ago, price was very reasonable but they sold out before I tried to order one.

Mine had a improperly set slide latch stud when I first got it. The slide latch would sometimes engage while there were still rounds in the magazine.
I managed to correct the angle of the face of the stud by twisting it very carefully with vise grips.
I was worried that it might work loose afterwards , but its apparently in there tight as a tick.

The feed ramp was rough as a cob, It didn't misfeed but the internals were coated with ground off bullet jacket copper (CCI ammo with the reddish copper jacket) after every shooting session, so I ground and polished it smooth.

Since then I've never had any malfunctions, and it seems to feed every thing without a bobble. Very reliable, but no great shakes in the accuracy department. Which I'm told is common for early production Model 59 and for no apparent reason other than the lousy trigger pull.

[BruceB]

Great discussion.

Although I've never owned a service-model S&W auto, our two Model 52 pistols are just about my favorite autoloaders in a long and checkered career of handgunning. As a non-LEO shooter, I have an antipathy toward magazine safeties. If I WAS in the po-lice business, I would definitely use (and cherish) a gun with the mag disconnect. The insurance factor is much too large to ignore.

NVCurmudgeon and I will be looking for a new carry pistol for my daughter next week. This thread reminds me that S&W's 3913 and the mini-Glocks (suggested, among others) by 9.3x62Al) will merit consideration, in addition to the Kahr pistols which are high on the list.

I use and have used pistols with the mag-disconnect system. I can't say that they've ever caused me a problem.

[Char-Gar]

I wonder how a thread would go, if somebody asked.. "Do redheads (or whatever) make good wives? Asking a pistol question, is just about as personal and subjective.

[9.3X62AL]

I wonder how a thread would go, if somebody asked.. "Do redheads (or whatever) make good wives? Asking a pistol question, is just about as personal and subjective.

TRUE THAT, Chargar!

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Thank you gentlemen for the replies you all have been very helpful.

[cajun shooter]

Let me say this as a former LEO. For every case you show where a mag disconnect saved a officer's life some one can show where it caused a death. It works both ways fellas. Just like seat belts in a vehicle. I have pulled many a person from a accident that would have been killed with out them. I also lost a fellow officer and family member who was a captain on a Ohio PD when his unit was in accident and he burned to death because the belt was damaged and would not release. By the time a Firefighter arrived with a knife it was too late. What if the bad guy was able to hit your mag release and knew your gun would not fire. Would you want yours to work or not? The pendulum swings both ways in this life of ours.