Red Dot, Green Dot and Blue Dot in the 45/70

[brstevns]

:smile:Was wondering if anyone uses Red dot, Green Dot or Blue Dot in the 45/70 with 340gr to 450gr cast lead bullets?

[offshore44]

Wondering the same thing about Blue Dot. I've got a 458 winnie and a boat load o' blue Dot that needs to go away...preferably down the barrel as smoke. Not same-o same-o, but it at least rhymes.

[nanuk]

I think "The Load" should work in the 45/70 with any boolit 500gr and under.

[Wally]

I've used Unique which is in the same family--it works superbly IMHO. I've used Blue Dot with other caliber--why use it when Unque works so well and you use a far smaller powder charge. I shoot a Marlin 1895 using 340 & 420 RNF cast lead bullets.

[madsenshooter]

I've used Blue Dot in other calibers. When it starts really burning clean, you're around 35,000PSI. In bottlenecked cases the neck/shoulder is just getting to where it seals well. Blue Dot works very good in my Krags. Develop a load and shoot it up, check with Seafire on the Accurate reloading forum. http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=search&reqWords=blue+dot+45%2F70&exactPhrase=&optWords=&notWords=&f=all&subjectOnly=N&afterDate=&beforeDate=&authorName=&exactAuthor=Y&sortType=0&ptyp_poll=Y&ptyp_album=Y&ptyp_msg=Y&ptyp_count=3&x_display_post_details=1&groupType=1&search=Search

[brstevns]

What would be a good starting load for these powders and a 430gr bullet, 10gr?

[John Boy]

Was wondering if anyone uses Red dot, Green Dot or Blue Dot in the 45/70 with 340gr to 450gr cast lead bullets?
NONE of these powders should be used for a 45/70 reload unless one is a VERY experienced reloader!
brstevns, based on your questions, you are not experienced!


Go to Hodgdon's Load Data on their website and pick a recommended (TESTED) powder charge by bullet weight. ... http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html

A 45-70 rifle has a SAMMI MAXIMUM pressure rating of 28,000 psi. You fool around with Red Dot or Green Dot that have the 12th and 19th FASTEST Burn Rate of 200 powders ... you are looking for nothing but a safety issue and a rifle that is a tomato stake. Fast burning powders generate HIGH pressures and are made for calibers far higher than 28,000 psi

Plus, buy a copy of Lyman's Casting Handbook, 4th Edition. It has substantial correct TESTED loading data for 45-70 cast bullets. It will be your friend for many years
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004DWBKQY/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000IZZT44&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1GZQDCRGJ66QBTZ95JFP


I think "The Load" should work in the 45/70 with any boolit 500gr and under. Nanuk, You Think it should work ...? :groner:
This is bad advice. Posting words like this will get shooters hurt! You better buy some reference books too or don't post a reply based on SWAG!

[waksupi]

The very thought of any of these powders in this use scares the bejeebers out of me.

[JJC]

Red dot was recomended to me for a fire lapping load. Very light charge with toilet paper in top of the powder to hold it. I don't think I would mess with it otherwise. There are other powders that can do the job correctly. Load another cartridge for your excess powder that it was designed for. I have powders sitting around useless for now atleast also.

[HighHook]

I've used Unique which is in the same family--it works superbly IMHO. I've used Blue Dot with other caliber--why use it when Unque works so well and you use a far smaller powder charge. I shoot a Marlin 1895 using 340 & 420 RNF cast lead bullets.

I agree with Wally. It seems that unique and 45-70 just go together with all weights and is safe... The Magic word!

High Hook

[nanuk]

Nanuk, You Think it should work ...? :groner:
This is bad advice. Posting words like this will get shooters hurt! You better buy some reference books too or don't post a reply based on SWAG!

hey John Boy, I do have books and perhaps you should do some reading before spouting off your own swag! what ever that is.

here is a quote from C.E. (Ed) Harris. I would put more stock in his info than any "Opinion" you would post. Your inexperience frightens me! I do not list the load, only refer to it so others can search it out for themselves.

to date, I have heard of NO ONE having an issue or "Getting Hurt"

if the OP was interested, he would search out the info, and see if it fits with his rifle and needs. If he is shooting a trapdoor, he would know it was not appropriate. if he was shooting a marlin? No issues.

so instead of showing your ignorance and spouting off warnings that may be old wives tales, tell us why you think someone as experienced as Harris would publish said info and update it, if it were dangerous?

you can read about it here; http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html

here is a highlight! "The Load" has shown complete success in the ..... .45-70.


so, unless you have more experience in Cast boolits than Mr. Harris, well...
never mind..

your statement: "brstevns, based on your questions, you are not experienced!"
is very presumptive.

allow me to be also presumptive:

JohnBoy, based on your comments, you are an arrogant person who thinks they are better and smarter than everyone else. You have no idea how much experience BRSTEVENS has.

You Sir, are the kind of person that drives people away from forums like this, when they are only looking for help.

[Andy_P]

.....A 45-70 rifle has a SAMMI MAXIMUM pressure rating of 28,000 psi. You fool around with Red Dot or Green Dot that have the 12th and 19th FASTEST Burn Rate of 200 powders ... you are looking for nothing but a safety issue and a rifle that is a tomato stake. Fast burning powders generate HIGH pressures and are made for calibers far higher than 28,000 psi....


At least two errors here:

- rifles don't have SAAMI Max pressures, cartridges do; and
- fast burning powders are "made" for everything from shotguns, up to the strongest actions. In fact they are ideal for very low pressure loads.

I am astonished that so many reloaders stick to the old "Trapdoor" 45-70 loads when only a tiny minority are shooting Trapdoors and other guns with actions of similar strength. There are many Marlin M1895, H&R and Ruger single shots, etc. being unneccesarily under loaded due to this lack of understanding. 45-70 brass can easily be shot at 50K psi in an action designed for that pressure.

Here are some 45-70 loads for a 405gr cast bullet, all just under 28K psi:

Red Dot - 13.0 grs
Green Dot - 15.0 grs
Blue Dot - 24.0 grs

[mroliver77]

LLoads here for 45-70 with fast powders including the dots. Just remember that it is possible to double or triple a charge in this big case and could blow up your gun and/or your face. I load fast powders in large cases but am very carefull and obey all the reloading rules about distractions etc.
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[brstevns]

I wish to thank everyone for their input. I have been reloading for over 40 years. I load for over 20 different rifle cartridges and 6 different handguns. Yes I know a lot but I also need to learn a lot. There is always something new in handloading. Loading the 45/70 is a new cartridge for me and I am looking for help. I have heard of people using red dot, green dot, and blue dot in the 45/70 but have never heard directly heard from someone that has really tried it. Since I load for handguns and shotguns I do have these powders around as well as Unique. Looking for a load giving around 1200 fps with the 405 to 420gr cast bullet. I was hoping someone could give me some input. Yes I am loading for a New marlin 1859 GG.
The links are a great help.
One is never to old to learn.
I am sorry if I opened up a can of worms.

[nanuk]

brstevns: sorry I kinda blew up on your thread.

it is just that I see so often the attitudes of, "I know better, you know nothing" before anyone even knows who you are and what level you are at.

I love this site for what one can learn. But it is hard to learn when all you hear is condemnation.

Good luck to you. With your experience in the reloading arts, I'm quite confident you will find loads with your powders that are wholly satisfactory.

[Old Goat Keeper]

BRSTEVENS you did NOT open a can of worm! You asked a legitimate question to learn about a new to you caliber. You had guts enough to say "I don't know so please help me". I too have a fairly new to me 45-70 (longer barrell tho) which I wanat to shoot some lower power plinking loads tha twont' break dthe bank. You jus t asked the question before i got aroudn dto it. You, my friend , did absolutely nothing wrong The only bad question is the one not asked!

Tom

[waksupi]

Definitely nothing wrong with the question. I could just see myself double charging though!

[45 2.1]

NONE of these powders should be used for a 45/70 reload unless one is a VERY experienced reloader! Very good advise.......
Fast burning powders generate HIGH pressures and are made for calibers far higher than 28,000 psi Lets see, most of these are shotgun powders producing about 12KSI, plus all the noted data for the low pressure pistol rounds............ Hmmm, time to look at a reloading manual.

Plus, buy a copy of Lyman's Casting Handbook, 4th Edition. Again, a very good suggestion.


At least two errors here:
- rifles don't have SAAMI Max pressures, cartridges do; and
- fast burning powders are "made" for everything from shotguns, up to the strongest actions. In fact they are ideal for very low pressure loads.

I am astonished that so many reloaders stick to the old "Trapdoor" 45-70 loads when only a tiny minority are shooting Trapdoors and other guns with actions of similar strength. There are many Marlin M1895, H&R and Ruger single shots, etc. being unneccesarily under loaded due to this lack of understanding. 45-70 brass can easily be shot at 50K psi in an action designed for that pressure. A lot of room for errors abound doing otherwise.

Here are some 45-70 loads for a 405gr cast bullet, all just under 28K psi:

Red Dot - 13.0 grs
Green Dot - 15.0 grs
Blue Dot - 24.0 grs

Please, do not go there..........

[brstevns]

Thanks everyone for thier kindness. If I do decide to try any of the dot's I will make a dowel to use to drop into each case, marked as to what the load should be before setting any bullet. I have use this method in making duplex loads when using bullseye for the little extra kicker to help burn powders completely. This is only with a heavy compress load of very very slow burning powders to hold the kicker powder in place.
I do see no filler such as dracon etc. is recommend when using the DOT powders.

[nanuk]

Definitely nothing wrong with the question. I could just see myself double charging though!


this is why I really like this site

experienced handloaders who can give me the warnings and issuesI need to be aware of, without condescending.

There is so much knowledge on here, that it would be worth someone compiling it into a book!

[NickSS]

I have been using Red Dot for over 40 years for low velocity rifle, Shotgun, and hand gun loads with perfect satisfaction. In that time I have probably shot off way over 100 pounds of that powder and have had great results in at least 50 or more rifle and pistol calibers. Two of my favorite loads is a 30-30 loaded with 8 gr of Red Dot and a 173 gr Lyman 311041. a 30-06 loaded with a 165 gr GC bullet and 13 gr of RD and a 45-70 loaded with a 325 gr PB bullet and 13 gr of RD. All are accurate and surprizingly powerful for the little powder it burns. My 30-06 load was the very first one I tried and it surprised me when it compleatly penetrated a 12" diameter fir tree at 25 yards not onec but five times in a row as I did not believe it the first time.

[nanuk]

All are accurate and surprizingly powerful for the little powder it burns. My 30-06 load was the very first one I tried and it surprised me when it compleatly penetrated a 12" diameter fir tree at 25 yards not onec but five times in a row as I did not believe it the first time.



yup... for still huning in the bush, what more do you need? That right there is as good a penetrator as Jboo. Put it through the front end and it will make meat.