Ranch Dog 190 grain mold

[exile]

I have some questions about the Ranch Dog 190 grain mold. I have a S & W 686 and would like to use this mold for deer. Also, I would like to buy a Ruger Blackhawk (standard 6.5 inch barrel model) and in the future possibly a .357 Remington Maximum, Marlin 1894 and an SP-101.

My main questions are:

1. Will this boolit fit in a 686 loaded in a .357 magnum case;

2. Will it fit in a Ruger Blackhawk loaded in a 357 magnum case;

3. Will it fit in a Ruger .357 maximum revolver;

4. Does it take a standard .35 caliber gas check; (perhaps most important)

I plan to size this in a .358 Lee sizer and lube it with equal parts LLA, Johnson's Paste Wax and mineral spirits.

What originally got me thinking about a mold heavier than 158 grains was the .357 Remington Maximum in a Ruger revolver, so that is not an idle question.

Please forgive my questions if they are somewhat uninformed or basic.

Thanks for your help.

exile

(the picture I have of the mold and boolit from Castpics is a 2 cavity mold, but the ones on the website are 6 cavity. Not a big deal but I thought I would ask):veryconfu

[Suo Gan]

I would stick to a lighter boolit for deer hunting using your 357 pistol. That big boolit is just robbing too much powder space. It might be good for plinking, etc. but assume it would yaw during flight. Yawing boolits do not have a true trajectory through game. This coupled with the reduced energy of impact would probably mean the chance of losing crippled game in the woods. I would focus on something around 150 gr for deer in your 357 mag. If you have a max that is the way I would go.

[Blammer]

I can answer number 4. YES. :)

[Ole]

I doubt it will fit in a 686. It fits in my GP100, but only by a hair.

It would probably work with 38 special cases if you want to go that way.

It's the only bullet i've ever used in my GP100 that I had trouble with it jumping the crimp.

It's a wonderful bullet in my 14" .357 Max T/C.

[exile]

Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to learn, if this boolit is not a good choice for deer, what is the best use for it? I suppose in a Marlin 1894 (which is what it is for) it would pick up enough velocity to maintain trajectory and be a good choice for deer? Is that right?

exile

[exile]

Another thing that occurs to me is the fact that every time I read a gun magazine article about deer hunting and the .357 magnum, they seem to be recommending a 180 grain bullet. If a bullet that heavy takes up too much powder space in a .357 case, what is their rational there?

Again, not trying to pick a fight, just trying to learn.

exile

[looseprojectile]

Will not fit in a Marlin 94 in a magnum case. Nose is long. Was made for the 35 Remington.
I use 38 special cases with the 190 grain .360" RD in my Rossi and get lotsa stomp and great accuracy. No lack of powder space. Crimp in the second groove.
May be a sixteenth of an inch difference tween that and a magnum case.
I believe that too much of 2400 or H110 or Lil Gun can be loaded in a 38 special case with that boolit. I generally load too much of those powders for handguns and enjoy them in my rifle.
No lack of stability signs in the one in thirty twist either.

Life is good

[exile]

O.K., so it is made for the .35 Remington and works well in the .357 Maximum. That clears it up. The castpics picture I have of it shows it in a GP-100, so hence my confusion. Thanks.

exile

[Ole]

O.K., so it is made for the .35 Remington and works well in the .357 Maximum. That clears it up. The castpics picture I have of it shows it in a GP-100, so hence my confusion. Thanks.

exile

I have used it in my GP100, but the bullet weight caused the bullet to jump out of the crimp and jam up the revolver at about the third shot.

I'm going to work with segregating some cases especially for this bullet and try to crimp them enough to get the bullet to stay in place. I'm confident I can do it, it just wasn't a plug and play application like some component choices seem to be.

With the cases I used, the OAL was 1.645". So if you wanted to know if your cylinder can hold a cartridge that long you could always seat another bullet to 1.645" and test to see if it will clear the chamber.

To give you an idea, this is what they look like in my GP100 cylinder:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh280/Ole1830/Bullet%20making/IMG_5375.jpg

13 grains of H110 gave a stout 1150 fps but no signs of excessive pressure in my pistol. I shot them air cooled and w/o gas check in my revolver.

[WM5L]

Somebody sent me some Ranch Dog 190's that I sized and gas checked. I shot them in my S&W 586 (a blue version of the 686) and they were awesome! I was shoot a bunch (full house+) of Win 296 or H110 cant remember exactly how much but they were BAD ASS on feral hogs at 25yds. I crimped the heck out of them and did not have any of them pull under recoil. The 4" 586 kicked like a mule! but what did you expect from a load like that? I wished I know who sent me them I was supposed to send him some of my Saeco 180's but I lost who it was.

[bhn22]

My 686 cylinder is fractionally longer than my GP100 cylinder. I use 180 LBTs, and my bullets stop just short of the cylinder mouth too.

[exile]

Thanks guys. Something about this boolit just speaks to me. I have a 686 with a five inch barrel and a non-fluted cylinder that was a Lipsey's special (I think). I would like to try shooting these using AA # 9.

One thing that intrigues me about Ranch Dog's designs is that they are tumble lube designs. I have heard some say that TL doesn't work so well, but RD seems to disagree with them.

The only tumble lubing I have any experience with is the 90 grain Lee boolit with 7.5 grains of AA # 9 in a .32 H & R magnum case, fired out of my Ruger SP-101 in .327 Federal (I seated the boolit out to take advantage of the longer cylinder). Seemed like a pretty stout load and I got no leading.

Does anyone know if Ranch Dog makes anything similar in a 160 grain weight? I looked on his website and could not find anything.

I will make up a dummy round tomorrow and see how it fits. Thanks again for the information.

exile

(As an aside, do any of you use 180 grain cast for deer? It amazes me when I go to a shop looking at "premium" hunting ammo, how much of it is loaded with a cast boolit.)

[longrifle]

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee147/ellis2269/P1020794.jpg


the way I have it loaded it won't fit in my freinds taurus which is close to a smith in size, it will fit in my father inlaws 2 inch stubby smith useing 38 special loaded to +p he likes it for bowling pins, the 357 max no idea I can only dream of owning one but I don't see why not, my buddies blackhawk yup it works just fine. I use 13.5n grns of little gun get 1100 fps in this 4 inch gp100 and 1650 out of my marlin 1894c oal is from ranch dogs website at 1.590", I size it to .359 I use a gas check it is very accurate and I hope a good black bear deterant or wild dog not much more dangerouse in northern michigan than that maybe cougers but I'll never see one.

[EDK]

RANCH DOG just got an 1894 in 357 after listening to us whiners cry about the 190 loaded in 357 brass not working in them. He has got a design worked out for the 357 lever guns at about 175 grains IIRC. Go to his web site...or maybe marlinowners?....for more information.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[cutter_spc]

Somebody sent me some Ranch Dog 190's that I sized and gas checked. I shot them in my S&W 586 (a blue version of the 686) and they were awesome! I was shoot a bunch (full house+) of Win 296 or H110 cant remember exactly how much but they were BAD ASS on feral hogs at 25yds. I crimped the heck out of them and did not have any of them pull under recoil. The 4" 586 kicked like a mule! but what did you expect from a load like that? I wished I know who sent me them I was supposed to send him some of my Saeco 180's but I lost who it was

It was me. We were talking about cast bullet over at SP. I have been using them in my Colt detective, running them about 600 fps, what a blast! I also Load them in my 357 max at about 1900 fps, just an all around awesome bullet.

[exile]

Thanks for all the info. I am going to try to find the 175 grain design.

exile

[Outdoors]

RANCH DOG just got an 1894 in 357 after listening to us whiners cry about the 190 loaded in 357 brass not working in them. He has got a design worked out for the 357 lever guns at about 175 grains IIRC. Go to his web site...or maybe marlinowners?....for more information.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

Don't see anything new post at RD's site - maybe he is still working on it. I did see he has data posted for a 357 load, oal min 1.59.

Pat

[BCall]

Last I heard he wasn't doing one for the 357 as there were plenty of other boolits in the lighter weight range. If he has changed his mind, I can't find anything about it. I would love to have one in the 170-175 gr range, but I was lead to believe that wasn't going to happen. I checked his site and marlinowners and cannot find anything.

[WM5L]

It was me. We were talking about cast bullet over at SP. I have been using them in my Colt detective, running them about 600 fps, what a blast! I also Load them in my 357 max at about 1900 fps, just an all around awesome bullet.


Cool, do you want yours sized,lubed and checked or just dropped from the mold? I got em both ways. Was it 25 or 50 I cant remember. Sorry for being a bone head.

[Ranch Dog]

Hey guys, I've started work on a TLC359-175-RF for Marlins chambered in 357 Mag. I know, I know, you guys are talking revolvers here but my interest and expertise is in the leverguns.

The bullet fits and fills the long step, throat, and leade that Marlin cuts in their rifles. What finally got me moving on this bullet is my Game Warden friend Michael, asking me to get busy with a bullet for his 1894C. Despite all the firepower they are given for the border war, he chooses his old beater saddlegun.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TLC359175RF/chamber/throat01.jpg

As luck would have it (not) when compared against Tom Myer's S&W 66-2, it is a perfect fit in the cylinder.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TLC359175RF/chamber/chamber02.jpg

The bullet is similar to all my designs, it is designed to maximize big game hunting performance for the given levergun.

I do not have any info on my web site for this bullet as I have not started shooting it yet. The test molds are being cut and I should be done with my work in very early March at the latest. If everything is good and a recut is not needed, I will have the molds available on my site in May. Once the testing is complete, the information will be on my web site so that you can sign up for a "In Stock Notification" and receive an email as soon as they hit the store.

[rhbrink]

I have shot the Ranch Dog 190 out of my 686. works great just seat deep enough to work in the cylinder and crimp of the nose. Makes for a heavy hard hitting round, I havn't shot past 50 yards but shoots as good as I can see pistol sights to 50 yards.

[BCall]

That looks great RD! Looking forward to it. Billy

[JJC]

Ranch Dog is there a reason the crimp groove is so large on your designs? Or is that the way it works out? Thanks, John

[exile]

Count me in on the 175 grain boolit. Thanks for the information.

exile

[Jeff H]

Count me in on the 175 grain boolit.........exile

I'm in too.
Probably what I would have opted for in the first place but the 190 was a good excuse to start working on a .35 Remington.

[kelbro]

Can't wait. Perfect size for a 357 hunting bullet.

[Suo Gan]

Another thing that occurs to me is the fact that every time I read a gun magazine article about deer hunting and the .357 magnum, they seem to be recommending a 180 grain bullet. If a bullet that heavy takes up too much powder space in a .357 case, what is their rational there?

Again, not trying to pick a fight, just trying to learn.

exile

I am in this for the knowledge too, so no offense taken. There are many schools of thought out there. I have read so many things that seem to be conflicting I just had to find out for myself. I am still on a quest to fly a heavy out of the 30-30. My fascination has waned when I have discovered first hand what everyone was trying to tell me when I began. Bigger boolits need to be driven faster in order to stabilize, they rob powder space, they ride tail heavy with their noses making tiny circles, in the case of the boolit you want to use you will more than likely have to crimp closer to the nose robbing still more powder. I would expect that boolit to be around 1200 FPS maxed out. What I have discovered is that heavy for caliber boolits do not strike true and cannot be counted on reliably for hunting. I am extrapolating here with 357 heavies are concerned, and see no need to prove my case as I am perfectly confident in the game taking capabilities of 158 grain SWC's in my pistols. I do not own a carbine (yet) the 175 sounds awfully tempting in one though.

Next up flying a 120 grainer from a 25-20...

[looseprojectile]

Go here and learn.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/357_magnum_and_the_literature.htm


Life is good

[EDK]

Go to lasc.us and read Glenn Fryxell's articles on 1894s....a Bullet for all seasons is another one you need to look at.

You also need to look at the 1894 and Cowboy Rifle forums over at marlinowners.com. The consensus is use a 180 grainer in the MARLIN 357 and load it hot. There ain't no flies on 158 grainers in the rifles, but the heavies really perform well...on paper as well as game.

"Differences of opinion is what makes horse races and political elections."

[Suo Gan]

"Differences of opinion is what makes horse races and political elections."

EDK, Somehow this thread topic moved from pistols to rifles.

[looseprojectile]

I give up!!!

[EDK]

EDK, Somehow this thread topic moved from pistols to rifles.


You are correct sir.

BUT the original post mentioned future use in a 1894c...AND RANCH DOG developed his designs for use in rifles, specifically MARLINS. The fact that most of them work so well in pistols is good news, but it wasn't what he designed them for. The various 357 rifles, usually lever actions, are extremely popular..try finding a used one at a bargain price. RANCH DOG's comments about trying to find one in another forum (?) was where he mentioned his work on the 175 grain boolit IIRC.

While 95%+ of my shooting is with VAQUEROS in 357 and 44, I'd prefer that the ammo be usable, if not optimum, in the rifles of that caliber. You might consider visiting at marlinowners.com ....lots of good imformation there.

At 62, I KNOW that I don't know everything, but I will continue to try and learn as much as possible.

[1Shirt]

Know that Michael designs for Marlins, but don't have a 357 Marlin. Do however have an angle eject M94 Win, and my mold checked and lubed runs right at 190, and feeds w/no problem in my rifle. Still looking for a second 357 in a Marlin however, and would really like one in a Max.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[exile]

After hearing all the opinions, I would have to say I have decided that 190 grains is probably too heavy for the .357, at least in my S & W 686. The 175 grain boolit might make it, I don't know.

I admit I don't know much, I have been hunting exactly three times, once for prairie dogs, once for coyotes and once for deer. Didn't really get a shot at anything. The time I went deer hunting I took my Ruger Blackhawk in .41 magnum.

My main reason for being interested in these boolits in a revolver is the fact that, at least in my understanding, it is illegal to hunt deer with a .357 magnum in a rifle in the state of Nebraska. Besides which, I have only seen one Marlin carbine in that caliber and they wanted $ 800.00 for it. Too much in my opinion.

I don't have too many goals left in life, but one is, I would like to take a deer with a .357, one with a .41, and one with a .44, my .327 Federal being too small for that sort of thing.

The learning goes on, and that is one of the best things about this forum.

exile

[Ole]

Exile:

Do you have a T/C frame?

The .357 Mag loads that I made for my revolver with this bullet (13.0gr H110) run 1500fps out of my 14" T/C.

I just thought i'd propose another option that you may not have considered. T/C barrels cost around $200 back when I was buying them.

[Suo Gan]

I give up!!!

With all due respect, please don't give up on me, because I don't believe I am lost. At the risk of sounding mean spirited, that article was not all that helpful to me considering the topic (Shooting 190 grain boolits from a 357 mag PISTOL and its use in HUNTING, not target shooting). I respect Paco, but the article was mostly just a history of the round and their use in lever action rifles, nothing said about loading 190 grain boolits. I respect the round as well. I have been shooting 357 mag pistols for most of my shooting life. I am not trying to say I know everything about 357 magnums, but with every round there is a point when shooting heavy boolits does not have a net gain of energy at the receiving end, for hunters like me, this is an important concept, for banging steel or killing paper tigers not so much I guess. Furthermore, when I have shot big boolits from normal factory twist barrels the boolits appear to be keyholing on paper. Apparently the boolits nose is making tiny circles while their bases remain stable. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if your boolits nose is wobbling, it will not strike true when hunting. That is what I 'know' today. Perhaps with further testing or knowing someone who knows more than me, they can shed some light on the situation. I do know that big for caliber boolits need to be driven faster for stabilization. You can't make the boolit noses stick out the end of the cylinder, therefore it will need to be seated deeper, robbing more powder space. Like I said I doubt you could safely move above 1200 fps using a pistol and this boolit. I just don't think that it makes for good deer (or larger) game medicine. I guess this is why RD is making a 175, makes a lot more sense to me.

I am not mad, so hopefully it does not come off that way, I know it is easy to mistake a persons tone when reading a post. I also am not slamming the 357 mag. It would be like loading a Porshe full to the gills with lead and then wondering why it don't go down the road too good. Its too heavy dum dum...

Anyway, good day, and I hope the OP has good luck with the 175.

PS, this boolit in a 35 Rem is just fantastic in every way. I just love it.

[exile]

Ole,

No I do not have a Contender frame, I have always wanted one. If I bought a Contender frame, I think my first inclination would be to buy a .357 Max barrel. I hear that folks like them real well.

exile