Webley .455/.476

[jerry6stl]

Does anyone have any experience (and/or a mold) for the British .455/.476 Webley handgun round?

Its an oddity in that the bullet nose is .476", while the bullet base is only .455" (heeled).

A friend just acquired a high grade British revolver chambered for this cartridge. We'de like to shoot it, if we can come up with ammo.

Thanks.

JERRY

[quasi]

Ross Siefreid wrote an excellent article on the .455 and .476 in Handloader magazine around 10 years ago. Wolfe Publishing can help you with a back issue.

[BCall]

No experience myself, but if you look at lasc, there is an article by Jim Taylor I think on the 480 Achilles. He was basically trying to duplicate the 476 to put in a Colt SAA, as the 476 cartridge was the largest ever done in a Colt. He had a custom heeled mold made for it. I can't speak for the man, but I would bet Tom at accuratemolds.com would do one. He has a couple of heel base designs already in catalog and his molds are very well made. Might try a google search for $80 Achilles.

I think RCBS has a hollow base mold that may work. It is .455, but is a special order mold. If my understanding is correct the 476 worked like the 41 Colt in that heel base bullets were eventually discontinued in favor of hollow base bullets that were under bore size and expanded to fill the bore.

[Dutchman]

How about some details.

Who exactly is the maker of this revolver? Adams, Enfield, Webley, Pryse. What "mark" or model is this revolver? Is it a military or civilian revolver? What markings does this revolver have?

You have no idea the huge pile of horse pucky you step into when you open the door to British revolvers. I kid you not. You'd think it's a simple answer.

I have 'The Webley Story' by Dowd. I see mention of a Webley-Kaufmann 2nd Model .455, .476 (note the comma separating the two). And a Webley-Pryse No.2 Belgian .455/.476. Webley-Wilkinson .476.

Then there are a listing of various Webley-Whoever (Webley-Green, Webley-Scott, etc) that show .455, .476 as calibers. Those are two calibers not one.

Chapter X - Government Enfield Revolvers. Mk1 & Mk2 .455/.476

Figure this out: "The groove diameters of the barrel at the breech and muzzle are .465" and .460" respectively, whilst the bore diameter is .450"." Ah, apparently the groove diameter tapers whilst the bore diameter remains the same. These are circa 1882-1891 revolver models. (black powder).

So much for The Webley Story.

Leave us switch over to "The Handgun" by Geoffrey Boothroyd. This is a great book (c)1974 and can be found on flebay on occasion.

Bothroyd says: "...clumsy and lacked any pretense of beauty." This book is more about gun designs than the cartridges.

When in doubt, google:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.476_Enfield

"The .476 Enfield (also known as the .476 Eley, .476 Revolver, and occasionally .455/476)"

Bullet diameter .455 in (11.6 mm) <----------
Neck diameter .474 in (12.0 mm)
Base diameter .478 in (12.1 mm)
Rim diameter .530 in (13.5 mm)
Case length 0.87 in (22 mm)
Overall length 1.33 in (34 mm)
Primer type Berdan

"Using the same bullet as the .455 (11.6mm) Webley Mark I.."

"Despite the difference in designation, the .476 will readily interchange with the earlier .450 Adams and .455 Webley rounds[2] (the latter in black powder Mark 1 and smokeless Marks I through VI),[1] as well as the .455 Colt (a U.S. commercial brand for the same .455 Webley round, with slightly different ballistics),[3] which all use the same .455 in (11.6mm) bullet, the distinction being which diameter was measured."

"Officially, .450 Adams, .476 Enfield, and .455 Webley cartridges all could be fired in the Webley Mark III British Government Model revolver;[4][page needed] although case length, bullet weight and shape, and powder charge differed, all three cartridges featured a case diameter of .476 inch with a bullet diameter of .455 inch, which could be fired in a barrel of .450 inch bore."

'Cartridges of the World' by Barnes is not without substantial errors so do not ever use it as a single end-all source of reference.

Also called .476 Ely and .476 Enfield Mk-3.

To determine what bullet diameter to use you need to measure the cylinder throats. Generally in Webley .455 revolvers you can use .454" Colt bullets of 250 to 265 grain weight. The Webley bullets were 265 grain. At the velocity of these revolvers, 600 to 650 fps, you would use a softer alloy rather than harder (1:40 tin/lead). Hornady Cowboy .454" swaged soft lead 250 gr knurled and tumble lubed are ok-fine. Four grains Unique is a good easy starting load IN A .455 CASE. Case length and powder charge need to be matched and not taken lightly.

http://images43.fotki.com/v504/photos/2/28344/1676633/476eley_cart-vi.jpg

http://images12.fotki.com/v254/photos/2/28344/1676633/Britishbullets2-vi.jpg

http://images112.fotki.com/v503/photos/2/28344/1676633/Britishbullets1-vi.jpg

Dutch

[eagle27]

I loaded for and used a Webley MkVI 4" barreled revolver quite extensively some years ago. The mould I had was the Lyman # 454190 throwing a 250gr round nose plain based boolit which crimped ahead of 6.0 - 6.5 grs Unique powder gave a good accurate hunting load. Shot many a rabbit, possum and several goats with this little gem of a revolver.

Made my own cases from 45 Long Colt cases by turning the rims down to the correct thickness for the Webley chamber and cutting off the case at the right length for the 455 Webley MkII cartridge. One hundred boxer primed Federal cases prepared like this lasted for ever.

You don't say what model Webley revolver your friend has other than a high grade British revolver. I'm thinking it must be one of the later models? From my knowledge all the 455 cal. Webleys would shoot any Mk of cartridge.

[dakotamar]

I loaded for and used a Webley MkVI 4" barreled revolver quite extensively some years ago. The mould I had was the Lyman # 454190 throwing a 250gr round nose plain based boolit which crimped ahead of 6.0 - 6.5 grs Unique powder gave a good accurate hunting load. Shot many a rabbit, possum and several goats with this little gem of a revolver.


When you use the 454190 bullet mold do you have to run that bullet threw a sizing die first or are they good to go in the Webley? I have some made up and did up some loads for the mark VI, but was wondering if they are a little big or not. the bullet measures .451, the webley ammo I have been picking up is .445. new to the whole reloading bit.

Dak

[curator]

My Grandfather's Boer-War Webley MkIV revolver is marked .476/455. The chamber mouths measure .449. Groove diameter is .452. Land diameter is .444 at the muzzle and .446 at the forcing cone.

[JeffinNZ]

Shot many a rabbit, possum and several goats with this little gem of a revolver.

I think what eagle27 MEANT to type was that in theory his revolver would be very adequate for rabbit, possum or goat however given such activity is illegal in NZ he will not have actually done it. :drinks:

[The Virginian]

The .476 Eley would chamber and fire .455 Webley/Eley/Colt, but not the other way around as the bullet will not get past the shoulder in the cylinder in a .455 as the .476 is a heeled bullet design. Too bad about you Kiwis having about as much regulation as the UK when it comes to guns.