The difference between Hunting and Killing

[KCSO]

Every so often I see a thread here about will this or that make a good hunting load for deer. This got me thinking as I have KILLED a whole lot of deer and in fact put down two just this week. In my mind there is a big difference between what I take hunting and what I have killed deer with. I am an old fart and kinda set in my ways and so most of the time my department issued matty matel sits in the gun locker and I carry either my 357 model 92 or my Krag. With both guns I have a box of killer loads and a box of hunting loads. Currently my killer loads for the krag and springfield is a 130 gr bullet that goes about 1100 fps. This is in my mind NOT a deer hunting load, but it sure will put a deer down if the bullet is in the right spot.
Meanwhile my deer hunting load for this year is a 220 gr RNFP slug at 1950 fps from a 24" barrel. This load hits dead on at 100 yards and the lighter load hits dead on at 50. I know that if I need to anchor a deer right now the 220 will put him down even if I have to take a less than ideal shot. The 130 will kill a deer dead every time IF I can put the bullet into the heart or brain. So I will put forth my personal idea of what constitutes a deer HUNTING load. I want a caliber of 30 or more shooting a 165 or heavier bullet at at least 1700 fps. Every load I have used within these parameters has proved to be a good HUNTING load, and would drop a deer with raking or shoulder shots inside 100 yards. Past 100 yards I want a little more weight and velocity, but since I don't usually shoot deer much over 100 I have some fudge factor here. As to what will KILL a deer, anything from 22 short on up. I prefer cast reduced loads because they are quiet. I can drop a deer within 20 feet of a herd of cows and not spook a one. A 22 won't do that.

[krag35]

Good thinking KSCO. I have killed Elk w/ a 223, but I won't take it "hunting" for one. Probably 25 years ago I read an article by G.Sitton (apologies for spelling) it advocated the "mid 30's" for hunting I.E. 358 win., 35 Whelen, 338-06. As a young feller, I thought "what a load of crap". I'm some older now, and I'd like to think wiser, and he was right. 200gr + bullets at 2000fps just seem to work better than the newest whiz bang super-ultra-short magnums, and you don't need the latest bonded depleted uranium cores to do it. I hunt places that are 2+ miles from a road, and my Krag or 30-30 do just fine.

[Bass Ackward]

Well I think that trying to define the difference between shooting and hunting is exactly WHY there is so much variation on opinion. What actually makes the difference to us as hunters? After all, look at what power levels killed for centuries. Yet we ask and get into heated discussions if hangun "A", that is capable of twice those energy levels, can kill a deer.

In my opinion, it comes down to range limits, accuracy needed at those limits, and recoil.

Someone that has a range limit of 50 yards, can choose a launching system from a handgun to the largest bore diameter rifle and be responsible if loaded properly. Any sighting system can be pretty much utilized. Accuracy standards can be VERY liberal and still be responsible. In fact, if 75-80 yards is all you need, there is nothing more fun or challenging than using a handgun for this purpose. IF .... you practice with it or anything else to be responsible.

As you, or as your environment defines your range on out, is where platforms, bore diameters, bullet weights, case capacities start to drop by the way side and optics come into play. These systems require tighter standards for accuracy and velocity requirements, etc. This is where a lot of rational people in discussions on this board lose sight of why someone is asking for more velocity and or accuracy.

People make decisions that satisfy them or on conditions based on limitations that "THEY" self impose. A rabbits head is pretty much a standard size across this country, but at 50 yards, it is a hell of a lot bigger than at 200. Just because a deer is shot on out doesn't mean that it is standing broadside in the open. Sometimes a slug still needs to be placed inbetween trees or limbs, just as it would at 50 yards. You need accuracy and velocity for trajectory to do that.

The limiting element in all of this for launching system and caliber is basically recoil. A man should know his limitations. If you can't load a cartridge up to a velocity potential that is needed with a responsible bullet weight to do what ever the job you decide it should be, and be comfortable to practice with that gun / load and shoot it well, then you should select a smaller cartridge that you can load up to needs or potential and handle. Regardless of what you read or hear. You have a limit that maybe someone else doesn't. Or .... maybe even that someone else has, but just refuses to recognize. If this lowering process limits the maximum range, then you need to live within those limitations established.

Knowing and living within a gun / calibers limitations makes one as effective as another with proper bullet designs and humane shots. Its when YOU fail to be responsible, that problems develop with anything. As an example, there is nothing wrong with lowering a 45 Lott to 45 Colt velocities if that is what it takes for proficiency. Mistakes are made when someone helfts the rifle weight all day and says to himself that by God this IS a 45 Lott and tries to stretch his load. Then why not recognize that fact and settle on a 45 Colt?

[6pt-sika]

The way the "hunting" is in the state of VA now you can "kill" a lotta deer if you have the inclination . And I suppose to some extent I do , however just about all of the meat from the deer I kill is donated to a local food pantry for giving to those that need it .Know with that being said my seasom starts 9/15 in MD and ends 1/31 in MD , along with a long season in VA sandwiched in the middle .

In the course of the season in VA during the gun season I like to try and "blood" guns I haven't before and for the most part they'll be old Marlin's of some description . However I put myself in situations where I won't get a shot over 75 yards with these guns usually . If I can get a shot much over that I take a scoped bolt action with jacketed bullets also or just the bolt action by itself .

I also hunt out of high 25' and up treestands and I can pretty much pick my shots , so this helps .
Some people say I do not hunt but just shoot and they well may be correct , however with the way I do this I get to try a good many different rifles and loads .

Now before someone gets in an uproar thinking I kill 40 or 50 deer a year , that is far from the truth . I normally take about 10-15 each year . And typically all I hunt in MD are the Sika deer on the eastern shore . However in VA during the gun season the way it's set up now you can take 3 bucks during the course of the year ( bow , ML and gun combined) and a limitless number of doe as long as it isn't over two per day . So in my own case if I pop one in the morning with this rifle , it goes back in the rack and I bring out the next in the lineup for the afternoon and so on .

So wether you want to call me killer or hunter , thats what I do . Good , bad or otherwise :-?