.357 Wadcutter Load

[AzCaesar]

Howdy all,

I am fairly new to casting, and have finally gotten around to getting some boolits made, now I just need a load. I am using 148 gr WC, and am looking for a Red Dot load (just trying to use what I got.) From what research I have been able to do I think I will be trying about 3.5 gr in a .357 Mag case, seating the wadcutter flush. Andy opinions on this? I just want a fairly light plink load, and would prefer not blowing myself up, as the wife would not appreciate that much.

Thanks in advance!

-j

[Dale53]

AzCaeser;
Here is a data sheet from Alliant Powder for .38 Special wad cutter loads:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=148&shellid=26&bulletid=29

Your load of 3.5 of Red Dot in .357 Magnum cases will certainly be safe. However, you should chronograph those loads and work up and down to get the velocity that you prefer.

Keep in mind that Hollow Base wadcutters have an upper velocity limit that should not be exceeded as you can blow the skirts off the hollow base, lodging them in the barrel to be followed by a bulged barrel when the next round is fired.

Dale53

[cephas53]

AzCaeser;

Keep in mind that Hollow Base wadcutters have an upper velocity limit that should not be exceeded as you can blow the skirts off the hollow base, lodging them in the barrel to be followed by a bulged barrel when the next round is fired.

Dale53

Dale53, would like more info on the upper velocity limits with HBWC's. I imagine there would be some variables but in general what is the upper limit? Thanks

[Dale53]

I would keep my hollow base wadcutters in the vicinity of a maximum velocity of 800 fps and would DEFINITELY not exceed 850 fps.

I have stood next to two people who did NOT follow that plan and personally witnessed THREE destroyed barrels.

Double ended wadcutters do not have that limitation.

On the other hand, when used within their design limits, hollow base wadcutters often have enviable records for accuracy. Just use them as intended.

Dale53

[AzCaesar]

Thanks for the info! I am actually using double ended, so blowing the skirt out won't be a risk. I just wanted a good, fairly light plinking load.

[9.3X62AL]

What Dale said. My experience with 357 Magnum loadings used to duplicate 38 Special ballistics is generally to use the 38 Special data +5% to +10% in the 357 casings.

[kelbro]

My 6" S&W 586 shoots the same 38 WC loads in either 38 or 357 cases. No adjustment required.

[.357]

800 FPS is about max for the HBWC in my gun i like to cast them nice and soft too. I leave my HBWC for the .38 special cases i only put double ended wadcutters in my .357 cases i run them a little harder about 950FPS.

Best of luck to you, Also you will find reddot to be an excellent .38/.357 powder.

[Dale53]

Az;
I regularly shoot the H&G #251 double ended wadcutter (I have an original H&G six cavity mould for this) using .38 Special cases and 3.5 gr of Bullseye. This is a a bit above normal .38 Special W/C velocity but shoots VERY well. In fact, it will shoot under 1" at 25 yards from a rest.

Years ago the factories offered a full velocity wadcutter load (Ed McGivern used them extensively in his act and recommended them without reservation for duty use. The New York Stakeout Squad used full velocity .38 Special loads in their anti-felon squad. They were considerably more effective than the original round nose loads.

Dale53

[Dale53]

Az;
Here is an excellent post from Ed Harris (former Tech Editor for the American Rifleman and a retired Ruger development engineer). Scroll down to Ed's last post for specific information on loading wadcutters:

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=6625&forum_id=4&highlight=Ed+Harris+on+the+.38+Special

Dale53

[cephas53]

Thanks for the link to Mr. Harris's post. i always learn something when I read anything from him. Not to hijack this thread….but... what do you'ns think of hollowbase boolits in a rifle? An example is the 405 gr Lee I use in my 45/70. With 5744, and using BAC lube it's running about 1300fps. Using half ww/pb I'm getting better accurray than I can shoot with no leading.

[zxcvbob]

This spring, one of the things near the top of my todo list is develop a .357 rifle load using cast DEWC's. (I think I'm gonna start at 8 grains of Power Pistol, intending to work up to about 8.5)

Your 3.5 grains of Red Dot load should be fine, but it's not really a light load. 2.5 would be more of a light target load.

[Dale53]

xce[has53;
The hollow base Lee bullet for the 45/70 was designed for the velocities given by black powder (1300+).

That has no relation to the hollow base .38 wadcutters. They are designed with rather thin skirts to work at 750-800 fps. Over run them and the skirts tend to separate (and stay in the barrel to cause a bulged barrel with the next shot).

zxcvbob;
Double ended wad cutters require a somewhat higher powder charge for the same results experienced with hollow based wad cutters. Even with the hollow base, they seem to shoot better with somewhat more powder than what has been recommended when extensively tested with the Ransom Rest. Ed Harris mentions this in his extensive experiments and my own personal experience co-insides with his recommendations.

Dale53

[Larry Gibson]

cephas53

"... what do you'ns think of hollowbase boolits in a rifle? An example is the 405 gr Lee I use in my 45/70. "

The Lee 405 gr HB bullet is a replica of the M1873 45-70 bullet. The HB is not there to expand ala the minie. It is there to regulate the weight given specific external dimensions. The skirt is too thick to expand at TD pressures even when the bullet is cast very softly. Obturation was expected to expand the bullets. It did not do it very well which is one of the reasons the 500 gr <1882 bullet was developed, it had the mass to obturate at the 70 gr BP pressure. This is all historically docurmented and if you'll look at the platte drawings in the old manuals and read the fine print it says the "dished base" is used to regulate the weight. A heavy or maximum charge of smokeless such as 5744 may cause a small amount of obturation with a very, very soft cast bullet but not what is expected of a .38 HBWC. This is why accuracy can be quite good with the Lee 405HB upwards of 1400-1500 fps.

The thin soft lead skirt of a .38 HBWC will "blow out" on exit from the muzzle if the pressure is too high destroying accuracy. It als can blow out into the barrel cylinder gap if the pressure is too high also. This can cause a bullet seperation leaving part of the bullet in the barrel. This is what Dale53 is saying. Same thing with soft cast HB bullets in muzzle loaders. The skirts are thin and they will take only so much of a load/pressure before the skirt blows on exiting he muzzle.

Larry Gibson