22 Hornet, case mouth expanding question

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I just started reloading 22 hornet with cast...using the Bator w/GC.
I am using W-W super 1x brass from factory loads,
fired in the gun I am loading for, Ruger #3
Bators sized to .225 with Gator GC.
I am Neck sizing only using Lee Collet die.
there is NO WAY to start the .225 GC bator

Not having a mouth expanding die, I chose to use
a Lee .257R FL size die, set real high, so the
22 hornet case mouth just lightly expands on the expander plug.
this seems to work real good.
Lee advertises all their FL size dies as having very gradual expander plug called "Easy X" expander.
I couldn't find a photo of this on Lee's website,
But I did find this PDF file on Surplusrifle.com , see page 3 of 8
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/homestretch2/pdf/homestretch2.pdf


OK the question is...
Is there a better way to do this,
or did I stumble onto a very good way to do this ?
Jon

[Larry Gibson]

I've been a proponent of using an M-die when loadig cast or jackted in both the 22 Hornet and the 25-20 for many years. Since I started using the M-die with both cartridges I've not scrunched a single case mouth which was easy to do with those wo thin necked cases and the small bullets.

Your method is working fine and is similar in nature to using the Lee case mouth flaring die.

Larry Gbson

[canyon-ghost]

I just chamfer the case mouth inside and out after fl sizing new brass, then neck size. But then again, I'm using a gas-checked Lyman mold. Gotta love the hornet!

Ron

[Herb in Pa]

I took the cowards way and use an RCBS competetion seater, it's got a window cut out of the side of the die that you drop the bullet into a guide which aligns the slug with the case neck. Makes life a lot simpler with itty bitty slugs and no case expander is needed. I also only neck size.

[35remington]

M die or needlenose pliers to expand the case mouth.

[telebasher]

LEE makes what they call a universal case mouth expanding die that goes from 22 to 45 caliber. Real simple to use and set for different calibers, check it out.

[btroj]

Get the M die. Will work for any 22 cal case.

And don't look at those case wrong or else the will dent bend. Short of my 32-20 the hornet has to be the most fragile case I have dealt with.

[Eutectic]

A "M" die is best. The Lee Universal works better that it looks like it would. Hornets are dainty and fragile cases and need special care when processing...

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

don't look at those case wrong or else the will dent bend.

AMEN !!!

who suggested Needle Nose pliers...are you kiddin' Me ?

[35remington]

Absolutely not. I'm dead serious. Needlenose pliers work just the same as the Lee Universal flaring die with the interchangeable plugs, and they do the flaring at a gentler angle without having to adjust another die.

Try it.

Then you will know I ain't pulling your leg. If flaring the case mouth to accept the cast bullet is all you need, these will do it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I just figured that the potential unconcentricalness (I suppose that is not a word, eh)
using "not necesarily round" needle nose pliers could cause problems for some Ham fisted fellows like myself.
Jon

[35remington]

It will not, as you spin the case or pliers while flaring, so there is no unconcentricity. Everything gets flared evenly. Even by ham fisted me.

The Bonanza Cricket chamfering tool was flat sided, but chamfered evenly. Because it is turned. Same principle.

As I said, try it, don't just theorize or "figure" about it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

As I said, try it, don't just theorize or "figure" about it.

Well, OK.
I should load some more slightly hotter anyway (after reading Beagle's article in castpics), maybe I'll break out the needle nose for some of those :)

I probably won't get to the range for weeks...I'm a fair weather shooter...I need 35º and sunny and not too much wind. Chances are I won't see that weather on a day off work til late Feb.
Jon

[leadman]

The Lyman M die is the way to go. It opens the mouth of the case from the too tight dimension meant for jacketed bullets and also creates a step on which to set the cast bullet in the mouth of the case so it is started straight.
The Lee Universal flaring die just flares the end of the case mouth. depends on the case and bullet it can be very hard to start the bullet straight.

[leftiye]

So why size in a single shot atall? That is - if the chamber isn't soo loose so that the case neck won't hold the boolit atall in a fired case. Sizing, grip on the boolit by the case neck, and expanding may all be unnecessary - plus, it is a better way to load if you don't need a tight grip on the boolit (negates boolit pull non uniformity). Or, you could open up a neck sizer so that it sizes just enough for a "thumb tight" hold on the boolet.

[1Shirt]

M-die or Lee Flare tool, both work well and when properly set and adjusted are hard to beat.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

So why size in a single shot atall? That is - if the chamber isn't soo loose so that the case neck won't hold the boolit atall in a fired case. Sizing, grip on the boolit by the case neck, and expanding may all be unnecessary - plus, it is a better way to load if you don't need a tight grip on the boolit (negates boolit pull non uniformity). Or, you could open up a neck sizer so that it sizes just enough for a "thumb tight" hold on the boolet.

this is an interesting thought that is so simple that I couldn't see it myself without someone pointing it out to me. And it is something I may try on another boolit, BUT, in this senario, the gas check doesn't snap on, it'd just fall off without sizing/crimping on the Bator. I am pretty sure if I was able to seat the unsized Bator with a loose check in a unsized case, the check would just fall into the case on the powder charge.
Jon

[35remington]

"It opens the mouth of the case from the too tight dimension meant for jacketed bullets......"

Here I am being argumentative again, but the parallel sided section of the M die's expander below the "step" is no different in dimensions than the diameter of the expanding button found in most bottlenecked die sets. "Too tight" refers only to the lack of a flare in admitting the bullet. The M die's expander, below the flare, is pedestrian in dimensions and no improvement over the regular expander save for the flaring step.

So the claim should be clarified to say that it flares the case neck only, and that's pretty much it as an improvement. The "step" can aid in straight seating, but so can tap seating of the bullet in the seating die with a case having an ordinary flare of the type the Lee expanding die provides.

Just getting the correct word out, so please excuse the clarification.

[telebasher]

I set my Lee collet die for just a little more than thumb pressure fit. Flare with the Lee tool , seat boollit with the floating collar Lee die then a slight crimp. I've checked runout every 10 rds enough times to know runout is normally less than two thousandths. This works for me as my current cast bullet Hornet cases are on their tenth loading with only 5 out of 250 lost to split necks. I have to use the full length die every 5 loadings to set the shoulder back BTW.