Swede 6.5 questions

[Daryl]

Ok,

I'm going to take a stab at this. I've gone back 50 pages on this forum (to 2007 I think) and read and re-read all of the posts with a heading that appeared to be about the Swede.

I think I get the gist - there appears little debate that 1,600 FPS or so and under is no problem to get great accuracy with lead bullets of varying molds and sizes.

The controversy seems to be when it is desired to push this critter to J velocities of, say, 2,200 +. And, in that controversy, it appears to be the 7.5 twist that most point out as the limiting factor.

Here's what I've got. A 1916 that appears to have been sporterized. Barrel measures about 17.5" so I assume this to be a carbine but I can't rule out a modified barrel because I'm no expert. I removed copper fouling with a week-long regimen of daily cleaning. I fire-lapped with 40 rounds and Veral Smith's LBT lapping compound. I have a 175 grain Lee Cruise Missel mold and one I milled down to the first lube groove to come in at 145 grains. The barrel slugs at .266 to .2665 as best I can tell. I've sized and gas checked the bullets to .269 and used LBT Commercial Lube.

I have new Winchester brass primed with Winchester Large Rifle primers.

Now I'm ready to load and test. It seems that 2400 - Unique - Trail Boss and some others have been tested and work well in the 1,600 & under range.


Now, can anyone provides some loads and velocities and any other tips to get respectable hunting performance in the 2,000+ FPS range

Please also note if there is a specific mold or bullet that really made a difference for you.

[Jim]

Look up Larry Gibson.

[PAT303]

The problem with the swede is everyone tried the ''secret'' loading technique and a former member shot groups that were almost unbelieveable doing it but no one else was able to get near it.I'd start there and so how you go,mine likes mid burning powders around 4895 for almost 2k velocity. Pat

[Daryl]

I'm very interested in this and I will definitely post results. I've read Veral Smith's book "Jacketed Bullet Performance from Cast Bullets" at least a dozen times. I look at it every day and always pick up another tidbit of understanding. I do intend to have a custom mold made if such performance is possible with this rifle. In the meantime, I do look forward to trying any input from those who have been successful in this endeavor.

[Char-Gar]

Go over to castpics.net There is some good data there.

[Daryl]

I'm thankful to those of you who have been responding and PM with info. I do follow up on all your suggestions. I managed to get to the range today and here is the report. Remember, I'm a below-average shooter and the groups are probably double what the rifle is capable of.

I just thought I'd try 15 very basic rounds. I loaded up the new Winchester brass with Winchester LR primers and slightly belled the case mouth. I used 16.0 grains of Accurate 2400. Used the full sized Cruise Missal, sized to .269, GC, LBT commercial lube at approx 175 grains. BHN approx 12 with wheel weights. No factory crimp was applied. COL was 3.10" which should have the gas check just contained in the neck. At 3.125" the dummy cartridge I used to check head space would extract the case with the bullet engaged in the rifling. At 3.1" it extracted without pulling the bullet from the case. I did not use the factory crimp die.

Shot from stock on 2x4 stand and butt on shoulder with iron sights at 50 yards. 40 degrees. Point of aim was the bottom center edge of the target paper. Shots landed about 4" or so higher - probably because the rifle was sighted in at 100 or 200 with other ammo. Honestly, I was just ecstatic to even get the first shot on paper. I was pleased that there were no signs whatsoever of instability - nice round, clean holes.

This is a 1" grid. I shot two foulers/sighters to get on paper. Aiming at the center of the target, these were at or above the top edge of the paper. The circled group is my next 10. The first 3 to 5 were nice and tight in a 1.5" or so pattern.

28125

[1Shirt]

Daryl, Mine will open up groups if I allow the bbl to get hot. If I shoot fairly slow, say not over a shot a minute or maybe even two minutes, groups with the cruse missel will usually stay in a min and a half or sometimes less at 50 yds. I try to stay in the 1500 fps range. Good luck!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Daryl]

Made it to the range again in the 15 degree weather here - frozen hands and all.

Used 18.0 of 2400 with my newly mounted scope @ 100 yds. The last range post was at 50 with the iron sights.

I'm very encouraged. I don't know what the velocity is on this yet - but I'm guessing it's got to be a 1,600 to 1,800 FPS load. I was also encouraged at the nice round holes going through the target.

The scope is a simmons pistol 2-6. I could only get it mounted far enough forward to effectively use the 2x - so that's what this is based on. I forgot my spotting scope because I cleaned out my truck - so I don't know what order the shots are in. The one flyer at the lower left I have no idea. The grid is a 1/2" grid. So, if i forget about they bad boy at the lower left, the group is maybe 2"+. Certainly good for critters. Since it is at 100 yds - I think its better than the 50 yd with the lighter load - but I'm sure the scope helped too.

I'm going to push the 2400 a bit further. But I'll need to move on to another powder to push the 2,000 FPS barrier. The Cruise Missile weights 175 grains and Lees loads only go up to 160 in jacketed. I'm thinking of trying the RL15 start load for the 160 grain jacketed which is 32.8 grains. Anyone safely use that load with the CM?

[Thecyberguy]

Thanks for the update. I will be watching future range reports. Have a good 'un, TCG

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

Swede's can be a bit cranky about what they wish to shoot when it comes to cast bullets. A bunch of yrs ago I was about ready to use a couple for boat anchors until I started slowing the bullets down. Won't bore you with what didn't work. Bottom line is I ended up with between 8.5 and 9.5 grains of Unique with a 130 gr cast. and "toy stuffing " filler for 1250 to 1350 fps depending on rifle. Not where I wanted to be but definitely where they wanted to be. Was accurate to 1" at 50 yds w/open sights. I know it doesn't sound like much but will drop a deer out to my open sight limit of 75yds. Recoil almost non-existent, report very soft out of the long barrels, no leading with any lube tried,cases last forever at this pressure if you tickle the rifling with the bullet nose.Much more satisfying than I anticipated for the low velocity obtained. I just flat stopped trying to get more because I had other calibers that could go much faster w/o the headache. I will say I never tried any slow powders back then, the way it is done now. Slow powders just were not in the recipes back then. My guess they are certainly worth a try now to squeak a few more fps out of the old girls. Good Luck, Mike

[curator]

Try WC860. It is real slow burning and a bit dirty but I have gotten reasonable accuracy at velocities around 2000 fps with Oven-tempered boolit 140 grain LBT-267SP Wheel weight alloy, lubed with LBT blue.

[Buckshot]

...............Daryl, I'm just going to post a smattering of 6.5 Swede stuff from 3 different full military Swede Mausers. A M96, a CG M38, and a Husky M38 all in 'as issued' form, triggers, sights etc. Most of my shooting with it has been with slow surplus powders, like WC860 & WC872. Why? At the time they were $28/8lb jug, and they worked. They were also very dirty as they were inefficient in the 6.5x55. WC860 was a 50 BMG powder and WC872 was a 20mm aircraft cannon powder.

http://www.fototime.com/8B8B8013CDC151A/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/B55472729A707A9/standard.jpg

LEFT PHOTO: 1) 122 Lyman 266445 HP 2) Lee Group Buy 140gr 3) 152gr Lyman 268645 4) So called 172gr Oldfeller Cruise Missle (OFCM) RIGHT PHOTO Left boolit is a 132gr Group Buy done a few back, and again obviously the OFCM. Both slugs in the photo are seated to engrave, BTW. These 5 designs are the ones I've used in the Swede and 6.5 Italian Carcanos.

http://www.fototime.com/D8F746F5F60AB27/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/ED85D15612B17F9/standard.jpg

LEFT Lyman 268645, 50 yards. RIGHT Data is all listed on the targets.

http://www.fototime.com/8D65C37E75D7824/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/11A9196BAB103E2/standard.jpg

LEFT Data on targets, O/F = OFCM RIGHT 122gr Lyman 266445 HP

http://www.fototime.com/142E2E3B975802E/standard.jpg

Shot using the Lee GB 132gr. Didn't like the 38gr load. I have the velocities in my note book but it's not available to me at the moment.

All these were pretty basic reloading of cast. Visually inspected boolits, thrown powder charges, various alloys, 3 different case headstamps, etc. No 'special' stuff like weighing cases, boolits, or even individual scaling of powder charges. Simply a problem of having too many rifles to fool with and not enough time to really bear down and systematically work through each one. Also, most were simply shot at 50 yards. No scopes, issue irons and 57 year old eyes count for something too.

A person who will intelligently spend some time, thought, and pay attention (and fool with ONE rifle) should have no problems in getting where you want to go.

..............Buckshot

[bowenrd]

My lot of Winchester brass is not true 6.5x55 brass. The case head is undersize. When first fired the case will bulge. You may get better groups after fire forming case to your rifles chamber.

[Dandy2fingers]

Greetings from Frozen Kansas.

This is 11.3 Unique, the bullet in the picture (130+/- Kurtz) which was sized .269 (sorry crew, I bought these since I don't have the mold,) rem 9-1/2 primers and an OAL to match what your Swede likes....

In the 2 Swedes out here in the middle of nowhere, we had 2 slightly different OAL's but the group sizes we're close.

I caused the lack of the 10th "x" at 50 yards; testing how much of a line of white I could take. In fact, all of the previous 9 shots I experimented with the line of white.... Front rifle rest, holding the stock on a concrete shooting bench indoors through a window (heated range house - too darn cold to be outside !)

This was a M38 Swede with the as-issued combat sights set a low as possible and a production front blade with an issued flash hinder and sight hood.

The other Swede produce similar groups around 1.2" or so.

A friend of mine is experimenting with a Lee 170g mold he milled down to 150g's and is getting .9" groups at higher velocities. Not done yet with this experimental bullet yet.

Cheers !

[1Shirt]

Keep this thread going with results. Much better than some of the previous stuff on the 6.5x55. It is a great ctg.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[nanuk]

I like to read about successes and how they came to be