Need help concerning Berdan primers from Grafs

[strangwn]

I have read discussions here about trying to get Grafs to get the correct Berdan primers for the 7.62 x 54R, but now I can't find the discussions. I would like to call Grafs to provide my input, but not sure about what to ask for. Can anyone help?

[MtGun44]

The ones they got were for 7.62x39, a friend and several folks here have had very poor/no
ignition on 7.5 Swiss and other larger cartridges. A friend of mine got them to work with
enlarged flash holes and seating them flush - not all the way down. In any case, I have
several thousand of them and am now saving my brass 7.62x39 cases to use them with.
I think if you just tell Grafs to get the proper Berdan primers from Tula for 7.62x54 they
can take it from there.

Bill

[WineMan]

In the 7.5x55 Swiss, the KV-24N 7.62x39 primer works with 16 gr Alliant 2400 every time for me. I also use a wood shim under the handle of my LEE primer tool to be sure each one gets set to the same depth (below flush). For mid cast loads with faster powders they seem OK.

Here is more of the thread on the Swiss Rifles forum:

http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/topic/8437/t/Tried--lot--TulAmmo-KV-24N-7-62x39-Berdan-primers---7-5x55-B.html

It looks like the one you want Graf and Sons to carry is the KV-7.62N primers.

It is sure a sirens song to use Berdan primers, more work, hard to get, flukey results but to see the cans of pretty brass just sitting there, unusable it breaks my heart.

Wineman

[Dschuttig]

I think that you may be looking for my thread.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=97744


They are supposed to speak with Tula in Jan. I would call and get on this ASAP, we need as many of us as possible to get them to order us the right size. I have used the older kv-7.62n and they work with no complications unlike the 7.62 x 39 we just got.

If you enlarge the flash hole witha #50 drill bit, you should have no problems with the 7.62x39 primers. dan

[NuJudge]

The TulAmmo primers imported by Grafs were .217", and a bit short for full power cartridge primer pockets (they seated deep, but would still ignite, when bottomed). Most 7.62x54R use a .254" Berdan primers.

Albanian and very early Bulgarian 7.62x54R use .217" Berdan primers. The Albanian has the occasional rim that is too thick, but I otherwise like it. The Bugarian has some occasional poor quality, and I really disfavor it.

[strangwn]

Thanks everyone. I will contact Grafs. Are these Tula .254 primers corrosive or non-corrosive? If they are corrosive, what cleaning procedures do I need to know about? Have not dealt with corrosive primers.

[3006guns]

Corrosive primers leave potassium chloride (salt) in the bore. If left uncleaned, the salt will promote rust. Since salt is readily disolved in water, you can just use hot water liberally followed by a water displacing oil such as WD40. Or you can use Hoppes #9 bore solvent. Some shooters swear by Windex window cleaner but I shy away from it because of the ammonia. Whatever method you use, clean the barrel and the bolt face immediately when you get back from the range and then check it every day for several days after. Really not that much of a bother when you consider how cheap military ammo is.

Another cleaning method learned from a shooter who's been around since the twenties..."every man is equipped with a cleaning device when in the field. There's less salt in your urine than in the primers.......take a whiz down the breech." No, he wasn't kidding!

I'm pretty sure the Tula stuff is non corrosive though.

I have about 500 rds. of 7.62 x 54 military (Russian I believe) and would be very interested in laying in some berdans also. I think I'll pull one of the j words today, dump the powder and deprime so I can measure the pocket. If they are .254 then I'm REALLY interested and I'll call Graf also to get my two bits in.

[strangwn]

Thanks, 3006guns. I just put in my email request to Grafs.

[Dschuttig]

All of the stuff listed on the murom website is non-corrosive, either lead free or standard, so I think that they only make the corrosive stuff for military loadings, not for retail sale of primers. Dan

[Multigunner]

IIRC the only Non Corrosive U S military ammunition manufactured during WW2 was for the M1 Carbine, due to its difficult to clean gas tappet block.

Corrosive primers of the day were far more reliable than all but a few commercial non corrosive primers.
Some common military propellents required a very hot cap for good ignition, especially in extreme cold.

[Landric]

I'd like to see berdan primers available for 7.62x54mmR and 8mm Mauser (the same primer perhaps)? I've got a bunch of surplus 7.62x54 and while I understand the cleaning process for corrosive primers, I'm not much interested in doing it, having been spolied by shooting my handloads and almost nothing else for 15+ years (I've had the surplus ammo around for about 20 years now). I have a limited amount of boxer 7.62x54 brass, but plenty of berdan in the form of loaded ammunition. If I could reuse the brass I'd happily fire all my surplus stuff up and go through the cleaning process once so I could handload it all again.

I'll send an e-mail to Graf's expressing my desire for berdan primers as well.

[NuJudge]

Almost all 7.62x54R Berdan brass has .254" primers. All Albanian and some very early Bulgarian 7.62x54R use .217" primers.

All 8x57 Mauser Berdan brass that I have seen has .217" primers.

[mroliver77]

Anybody know what the 7.62X51 (.308) size berdan primer? I have a bunch of once fired beautiful brass that cannot be reused.
Jay

[NuJudge]

Anybody know what the 7.62X51 (.308) size berdan primer? I have a bunch of once fired beautiful brass that cannot be reused.
Jay

The appropriate primer for 7.62x51, at least the one from Murom, is their KV-7.62N. It also works in other full-size cartridges having .217" primers. PMC imported two large batchs of them some 10 years ago, but they are long since out. My impression is that the KV-7.62N is a little soft, and I would not want to use it in a 7.62x51 semi-auto rifle if it did not have either a firing pin retraction spring or a Garand-type safety bridge.

CDD