Show us your wildcats!

[NoZombies]

I started a thread recently about a wildcat I've started to work on, and I've gotten several PM's from people interested in doing their own. I'm just beginning to walk down this path, but I know that a bunch of you guys have made up wildcat cartridges before. So, show 'em off!

Please post a photo, if you can, and tell us about what you've done, what the purpose was (if you had one) parent case, etc.

I'll start us off with the one I've been working on:

The 22/32 designed for small game hunting at ranges out to 100 yards or so, specifically with cast boolits. Made by necking .32 S&W long brass down to .22 caliber.

http://nozombies.com/cast/22-32.jpg

[Jack Stanley]

NoZombie , have you got the 32ACP/17 wildcat worked out yet ? I can hardly wait to see that in your black rifle of choice The normal Colt thirty round magazine oughta hold , what? , fifty rounds of the little cartridges ? 8-)

Of course the one you are working on now would be great out of a miniature Vickers or Maxim [smilie=1:

Jack

[badgeredd]

Here are some....

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Wildcats/Picture003.jpg

22 SuperJet, 218 Mashburn Bee next to parent cartridge, 7x57 Ackley Improved next to parent case, 35/30-30 next to 30-30, 35x60 next to 30-06 parent case, and my current project...30/38 Spl between 38 Spl parent case and 32 H&R Mag.

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Wildcats/Picture009.jpg

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Wildcats/Picture005.jpg

I have no idea why 'cept 'cause it looked like a fun little cheap cartridge!

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Wildcats/Picture007.jpg

The 35-60 got started when a fellow on the forum was asking about the ideal PP cartridge. One thing led to another and I built a rifle for this long neck 9x57 and have been very impressed with its performance.

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Wildcats/Picture008.jpg


http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Wildcats/PICT0417.jpg

Some ideas with some current cartridges just because I'm a sick puppy when it comes to something different!

I also have some what I call semi-wildcats. Meaning the cartridges are in limited or non exixtant production that were originally true wildcats, like 6mm TCU, 6mm PPC. Likely I am forgetting another one or two I have built guns for, just for fun.

Edd

[rhbrink]

Well now you went and done it I just knew that this thread was going to get me into trouble. I sure do like the looks of the 22 Superjet and the .218 Mashburn Bee. Just happen to have a CPA 44 1/2 action collectiong dust don't know how much longer that I can stand it.

[badgeredd]

Well now you went and done it I just knew that this thread was going to get me into trouble. I sure do like the looks of the 22 Superjet and the .218 Mashburn Bee. Just happen to have a CPA 44 1/2 action collectiong dust don't know how much longer that I can stand it.

Let me see if I can add to your quandry. The SuperJet and the Mashburn Bee are really fun cartridges with both cast and j-words. Both are capable of fine accuracy and about 3000 fps with the right j-words. I'm currently getting 2700 fps out of cast boolits with very good accuracy.

After all, it only costs money and the fun factor is definitely worth it IMHO. :bigsmyl2:

I've been working with different cast boolits in both cartridges and have found that about 50 grains has been my best choice. The BRP 46 grain does very well in both of them while the SuperJet can handle a little longer boolits fairly well due to its longer neck. I kinda feel like a crack dealer here but........oh well.:twisted:

BTW, I've ruined a friend with the 7x57 ackley. :twisted:

Edd

[Mk42gunner]

No pictures right now, but I have had a few wildcats.

1. .22 K-Hornet. It worked as a cartridge, but I bought the rifle (Model 43 Winchester) as an original, AND the chamber was reamed off center.

2. 6.5-06 I built this one on a large ring 98 Mauser action with a 22" prechambered Wilson barrel, I like it, but could use a longer barrel.

3. 6.5x.257 Roberts I haven't done much with it.

4. 6mmx300WSM. I had 100 gr Hornady FLGC's at over 3600 fps, with RL22, needed slower powder. Forming brass is easier when starting from .270 WSM brass. I originally cut down a set of .243 Winchester dies until there was only one and a half threads left on the die, to use. I have since gotten a Redding .243 WSSM sizing die, still use the cut down 243 die to seat with.

5. .35 Whelen, no longer a wildcat, but I wanted one since I read an article by Jack O'Connor about the cartridge when I was about 14.

Robert

[heathydee]

30-357 Magnum . A case full of AR2207/H4198 boosts the CBE boolit to 1650 fps out of the 18 inch barrel of my Martini Cadet .

[NoZombies]

Thanks for the input and photos Guys! Edd, You've got a PM coming in a minute about your current project... I had a thought about it.

[NoZombies]

Man, that 30-357 Martini looks like the cat's meow!

[badgeredd]

30-357 Magnum . A case full of AR2207/H4198 boosts the CBE boolit to 1650 fps out of the 18 inch barrel of my Martini Cadet .

Now that's what I'm talkin' about!!! Neat cartridge on a unique platform. What weight boolit is that critter?

Edd

[heathydee]

The boolit is nominally 150 grains but weighs closer to 160 when the gas check is fitted. I fit the gas check and size to .310 before pan lubing with a home-made beeswax/moly grease mix . Loading density is pretty close to 100% .
The clamp-on scope mount is a bit rough . One day I will make a better one . Too many other projects .

[flounderman]

I started out wanting to reach out and touch something far away. don't have pictures. had a 22-06, back when a 63 grain was as big as they went. have a 22 cheetah and a 22 middlestead, both on 243 cases, a 6mm-308 norma magnum, 6-06, 6-06 improved, 257 imp, 25-06 imp, had a 25 souper, 6.5-06, 6.5-06 imp. 6.5-308 norma magnum. had the 22-250 and the rockchucker before they were standardized. none of these are cast bullet rifles, but they will reach out and hurt something a long ways away. Daryl

[dk17hmr]

The wildest wildcat I have is a 243 Super Rock Chucker, which s a 25-06 necked down and blown out. Its an awesome rifle, my brother killed his antelope with it at 445 yards this fall, 75gr HP at 3800FPS knocks them down hard.

I have a couple 6x45's which are 223's necked up to 243....this is a great chambering for AR15's.

My only "cast wildcat" is an AR15 in 300 whisper. 30 herrett probably doesnt count but I have one of those also.

I also just bought a 22/30-30 AI barrel for my tender.....should be a fun one to play with.

[357maximum]

BTW, I've ruined a friend with the 7x57 ackley. :twisted:

Edd


Some fellas come pre-destined for ruinment so I do not know about all that, he was likely pre-ruined:shock: or at least a lilbit rotten. I do know that he is trying pretty hard to wear that 7X57 A.I barrel out. Good thing is that he has a good friend within driving distance that has the means and skills to refit another when he does in fact wear it out.[smilie=s:

[PatMarlin]

What would you guys do with a 300 Win Mag?

[roysha]

Pat:

My first move would be to throw it as far into the largest lake I could find then get a 270 WIN. :kidding:

[PatMarlin]

I got both so no problem...

I was thinking more along the lines of one of those Frankenstein versions above... :mrgreen:

[JeffinNZ]

The illustrious .303 Pygmy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/Pygmy31617550m.jpg

.38-303 BPCR:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/38303group.jpg

[Mk42gunner]

What would you guys do with a 300 Win Mag?

I have been thinking about a .35-300, the only thing holding me back is that I have developed an aversion to recoil, as I get older.

Robert

[PatMarlin]

Robert,

I pretty much never shoot full house loads with any caliber. A nice accurate reduced cast load for the task is good for me.

[Johnw...ski]

This is a .466 Whelin I have been working on. Needs a little more engineering though.


http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/JohnWski/466Whelen002jpg.jpg

John

[Mntngoat]

heres a few I designed and own.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Mntngoat/Firearms/Reamer%20Prints-%20Designs/ReamerPrint-20BR195ShortLittleStubb.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Mntngoat/Firearms/Reamer%20Prints-%20Designs/55ac8d9b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Mntngoat/Firearms/Reamer%20Prints-%20Designs/DSC00496.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Mntngoat/Firearms/Reamer%20Prints-%20Designs/Screen1-14-2009-60717PM.jpg

ML

[skimmerhead]

Robert,

I pretty much never shoot full house loads with any caliber. A nice accurate reduced cast load for the task is good for me.

hi pat, friend of mine, or so i thought! talked me into shooting his 300 ultra mag. that was two years ago and i still feel it, knocked the hat off my head! now iv'e never been kicked by a mule, but if its anything like that i'll keep my distance. i got with rocky rabb to do a .41spl. but have not had time to mess with it yet, got lee to make me a case trimmer and die insert for shorter cases, also have a forster case trimmer to trim cases to lenth. i guess i'll get around to it one day, too busy playing with new toy. will post results of .41 spl. when i get er done!

snoop's friend :castmine:

[Charlie Sometimes]

The 22/32 designed for small game hunting at ranges out to 100 yards or so, specifically with cast boolits. Made by necking .32 S&W long brass down to .22 caliber.

http://nozombies.com/cast/22-32.jpg

I like that! :smile: Maybe that would make a nice revolver round, too? Rework a Single-Six for it? What kind of load and velocity does that get? (Went to read other thread you mentioned- sorry for rehashing the question! :oops:)

Have you tried to put the 50 gr. 225415 in a 32 H&R Mag, or 327 Mag case? I'll bet that would make for a nice round in a little falling block single shot! Or better yet- maybe use the 357 Maximum case!

I thought about a 22 in a 30 carbine case, but that is a 5.7mm Johnson, IIRC.

I think some cartridges need the longer neck like on a 222 Rem on a case the size of the 32 mag or better for a cast boolit, IMHO. I think you can get too small and cartridges get hard to handle/lost easily! Case capacity should be around the 22 Hornet.

[tommygirlMT]

Here is one Ive been working on off and on over the last couple years --- I call it the 8mm carbine --- will actually do everything for real that the 30-carbine was suppost to do and they lied to the men they sent into battle saying it would do --- combat range nock things over in a small physical size cartridge so you can carry plenty of rounds in your pack --- also to be a very cast boolit friendly round

Parent cartridge is the 223 Remington and the brass is made from the same --- I ultimatly plan on building a AR-15/M-16 carbine to use it in but so far just have a test gun built from an old mauser --- reason I chose 8mm is because that is the largest caliber that you can neck the 223 up to keeping the original case taper profile and still have enough shoulder to head space on --- basically just cut the original 223 brass off at the base of the shoulder and form the new neck and trim

http://forums.handloads.com/uploads/tommygirlMT/2009-10-20_080248_8mm_Carbine_Wild-Cat_01.JPG

[.357]

I just have ideas now but I am enjoying this thread.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Here is one Ive been working on off and on over the last couple years --- I call it the 8mm carbine ............
Parent cartridge is the 223 Remington and the brass is made from the same -- reason I chose 8mm is because that is the largest caliber that you can neck the 223 up to keeping the original case taper profile and still have enough shoulder to head space on --- basically just cut the original 223 brass off at the base of the shoulder and form the new neck and trim

http://forums.handloads.com/uploads/tommygirlMT/2009-10-20_080248_8mm_Carbine_Wild-Cat_01.JPG

221 Fireball was nearly the original design for the 222 Rem. The 221 Fireball is about the same cutoff point as your design. I am forming 221 from 223 Rem. to save $$$ on lost cases when hunting, etc. Can form 222 Rem from the 223 also. Or could you call yours an 8mm Whisper? :confused:

[firefly1957]

I have a 357-44 Brain & Davis in a ten inch contender does that count?

[roysha]

Im000968.jpg (85.0 kb)
1. 17 Mach IV. REM has more or less legitimized this one but when I built the XP to shoot it, the cartridge was still very much a wildcat.

2. This is a 22-308 with the radiused shoulders of the Weatherby style. Actually for you younger guys, this was originally designed, the radiused shoulders, by Powell and Miller in the early 1940s and promoted under the name of PMVF, for Powell Miller Venturi Freebore. Weatherby, more or less, took the idea and used it to his advantage as far a marketing. From a practical value point, the radius shoulders are a PITA and really serve no useful purpose that I can tell except to look kinda cool and make a distinct appearing cartridge.
I had these reamers made in the mid 80s when Sierra released their 69 gr. .224 cal. SPBT. There were few 9" twist or faster barrels available, unlike today, so I HAD to build a rifle to shoot this bullet. Used a Shilen Select Match blank, sleeved a REM 700 action and installed a Green Electronic Trigger. I had quite a bit of success with the round on prairie dogs out here in NOCO. It competed very well with the 6mms in regard to wind bucking ability, if there is such a thing.

3. 270-221. This little cartridge was inspired by the 300 Whisper. Since I am a huge fan of the .270 caliber, I built this round on an XP with a Shilen SS Match barrel, the acquisition of which is another story for another time. Chronographed at 1840 fps with 130 gr. Sierra SPT and shot under an inch consistently at 100 yds.

4. 270-223. My Grandson decided he needed the above 270-221 a few years ago when he was around 9 or 10 years old. Last summer he decided he wanted more power so we rechambered to the 221s big brother. Gained about 400 fps and didn't lose a bit of accuracy. VERY mild recoil even with the 130gr. bullet. As you can see, the throats are very long so the bullets , in both cases, can be seated out to maximize the powder capacity. Since the XP is a single shot the seating depth is of little consequence except to be enough to hold the bullet during chambering.

5. Surprise! 270-308 Ackley Imp. I built this rifle on a REM 700 short action for my wife about 35 years ago when she and I hunted together. This little bugger pushes a 130 Sierra SPBT at very nearly the same velocity as my 270 WIN with less powder. With heavier bullets it falls on it's face because of lack of powder capacity. She killed several antelope with it.

6. 308-1 3/4". I built this rifle when I had delusions of grandeur in Bench Rest competition. The Hunter class competition is a score shoot rather than a group size shoot. Touching the next ring gave one the higher score value so using a larger caliber gave one the edge. HA!! What one gained with caliber, was lost via shooting comfort. The cartridge, to be legal, had to be at least 6mm and a case capacity of a certain number of grains, which momentarily escapes my memory. Anyway, the 1 3/4" 308 case allowed this capacity and helped reduce recoil. Although it isn't apparent in the photo, this case has the PMVF shoulder also.
If you are wondering about my success in the BR comp. let me put it this way, anyone can buy/build a winning rifle but not everyone can shoot to the capability of the rifle. That's me. Oh well. It was fun for a while, but got to be a lot more fun when I quit beating my head against a rock wall, if you get my drift.

During my BR phase I also had the the usual assortment of PPCs , IMP 222s, 6x47, etc. which I have long since sold.

At one time I was also shooting (attempting to shoot) long range match and had a REM 40X chambered in 30-338. It too, is long gone.

[Doc_Stihl]

This is a .466 Whelin I have been working on. Needs a little more engineering though.


http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/JohnWski/466Whelen002jpg.jpg

John


I like that....I might have to make up some of those fancy rounds to leave on the bench.

[82nd airborne]

I think it would work if you pushed the boolit all the way to the bottom of the case and put the powder on top of it. Im just brainstorming here, but I think it should work.

[Mk42gunner]

I think it would work if you pushed the boolit all the way to the bottom of the case and put the powder on top of it. Im just brainstorming here, but I think it should work.

I was thinking that it loaded from the front, kind of like the Thuer conversions of Colt's 1860 Army.

[NoZombies]

Awesome guys! Some creative guys and gals we've got here.

Anybody else wanna share?

Jeff in NZ, tell me about the stubby cartridge you have there, it looks neat, and I love the idea of the 303/375

Charlie sometimes, I'm planning to have the reamer cut in such a way that I can have it recut to do deeper chambers like the 32 mag or 327 if I feel like the little guy needs more oomph. For now I want to stick with the small capacity and see what I can make it do/

[tommygirlMT]

221 Fireball was nearly the original design for the 222 Rem. The 221 Fireball is about the same cutoff point as your design. I am forming 221 from 223 Rem. to save $$$ on lost cases when hunting, etc. Can form 222 Rem from the 223 also. Or could you call yours an 8mm Whisper? :confused:

Yes --- you could call it an 8mm-221 or 8mm-Whisper if you so desired. 8x37 would be the most logical --- being a pure metric designation. Since to my knowledge no one else has done this particular combination before (I searched the Wisper official web site and wildcat forum as well as all the other wildcat forums and online refrences I could find) I think that gives me the option to name it --- (a girl can at least try right?) --- "8x37 Carbine" or "8mm Carbine"

I think the "Carbine" designation properly draws attention to its intended purpose and use indicating military roots --- I am a lot more confident in a 200+ grain 8mm bullet's or boolit's ability to nock a bad guy on his butt and make him (or her I suppose) stay down for good then a little light weight 22 caliber bullet assuming equal equivalent energy with the larger bullet traveling at reduced velocity but delivering the same energy --- especially if we are discussing FMJ loads that are ganiva convention complient

As I said I ultimatly intend to build one of those evil black guns for it --- basically compared to the 223 the round sacrifices longer range capabilities for better "knock bad guy on his ass and he dont ever get back up" at more common combat ranges of 200 yards or less and will let me get plenty of practice with gas checked cast boolits (GC mainly to reduce leading of the gas system) that are near full power loads (yes --- you can load cast in 223 but it dont work out very well in the black guns for trying to get an accurate load that cycles a non modified action that is set up to work with full power loads)

Not trying to be contrary at all --- and of course open to imput --- just explaining what Im trying to do --- 338 cal is the biggest that will fit doing this to the 223 parent case but that leaves no shoulder and one has to head space only on the case mouth --- 8mm gives just enough shoulder to head space it on that as well and not have to rely only on the case mouth --- especially problematic with cast boolits that are crimped since the crimp can wreck your head space without a shoulder on a non-rimmed case

Also --- with the short 16 + a smidgin carbine barrel length --- it dont wisper --- its got a pretty good BOOM to it when loaded full up with 100% case fill load at military load 223 pressure levels (me man let me borrow his pressure trace rig for this and attach a sensor to my test gun)

[82nd airborne]

Marty at Teppo Jitsu Has done alot of work with the .338 Specter, whcih was a .223 cut off and stuffed with a .338 bullet. I have heard of guys using cast in it. At what depth do you have to load to get it to work in GI mags, or would you use Pmags, or some such polymer mags, with the ribs filed out? Pretty cool looking round.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Yea, I forgot about the Specter, too.

All these sound to me similar to the 351 Win. Self Loading and those other designed cartridges around that period.
And you are right, tommygirlMT- you have the perogative as designer to name it, AND change you mind at any time! :lol: :razz:

I think just about everything under the sun has been built- it's just a matter of how many people know about it. But they are still FUN in the making! :grin:

I have always liked the thought of the 6mm x 223 Rem cross (6x45, I think?) Put the longer 222 Rem. neck on it and give it the right twist for a 245498 boollit, and I would have the perfect varmint/predator rifle, IMHO. :bigsmyl2:

[camerl2009]

well the only one i made so far is what i call a .17 short
its a .22 blank for nail guns with the crimp cut off
and just by accident a .177 pellet will fit in the necked down part
of the case

[RonE]

What would you guys do with a 300 Win Mag?

It has probably already been done, but what about a .338-300WinMag AI?

[HollowPoint]

I recently received an email from the "Home Gun Smithing forum site" and one of the links contained in that email was to an online site having to do with Wildcating.

Very interesting.

Some of you guys may have seen this already. They had a spoof-wildcat cartridge which was based on the 50 BMG. It was necked down to .17 caliber. It was the first time I'd ever seen it. I thought it was pretty funny.

Should such a cartridge ever come to fruition, I suspect it would shoot lead/copper plasma. I doubt it would achieve much accuracy but, it would burn the bloody-snot out of you if you happen to be in the path of that plasma as it exited the barrel.

HollowPoint

[JeffinNZ]

Jeff in NZ, tell me about the stubby cartridge you have there, it looks neat, and I love the idea of the 303/375


Just search Boolits using "Pygmy" and my posts will surface.

[lead Foot]

I'm Jealous. There are some fine wildcats there, must get to work and make one. The only wildcat I got was this one.:bigsmyl2:

[.30/30 Guy]

I think that this one qualifies. .270 Max - a .357 Maximun necked down to .270. A factory RPM XL single shot pistol chambered for this cartridge. No one that I have found shows any data for it. I have loaded it with powders 2400 to H335. Averages about an inch and a quarter off the bench at 50 yards. Recoil similar to a 357 Mag.

[Artful]

I only have a 300/221 Fireball - a takeoff on the 300 whisper. I have had several orphans (no or tough to get factory ammo) like the 41 Colt - but If I was to make a wildcat now it would problably be taking something like the 458 socom or 50 hushpuppy on. I think that my tastes have changed to something that I can shoot quietly and preferable with cast bullets.

[rockrat]

I made a 30-357max long neck. Has a 30-30 length neck on it. Have a MOA pistol chambered for it that I used to shoot in IHMSA.
Also made an xp-100 chambered in a 44-284win that I shot a few times in IHMSA. Lots of complaints of the noise (65gr h-335 IIRC w/240 IMI bullet). Chambered a rifle in it too. Took an Elk with it. 265gr Hornady @2550fps.
Think I might have a reamer made for a 44-350Rem mag. Or maybe a 375/350 or 411/350. Haven't decided yet.

Will get pics of the two if I can find what I did with the ammo I still have loaded.

[thehouseproduct]

Marty at Teppo Jitsu Has done alot of work with the .338 Specter, whcih was a .223 cut off and stuffed with a .338 bullet. I have heard of guys using cast in it. At what depth do you have to load to get it to work in GI mags, or would you use Pmags, or some such polymer mags, with the ribs filed out? Pretty cool looking round.
the 338 Spectre is actually a 10mm Magnum necked down.
http://www.teppojutsu.com/338.htm
The 223 blown out is called a 338-223 Straight.
http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w338223s.html

BWE is also making one:
http://www.bwefirearms.com/338.html

[Charlie Sometimes]

Here's what I was talking about in modifying the 223 Rem. to have a longer 222 Rem. neck to support the 6mm boolit (245498).
I ran a 223 case into a 222 Rem. trim die to form it, then up sized the neck in a 6mm Rem (244 Rem) sizer, then seated the boolit with the 6mm seater die. Of course, proper dies would have to be made if I get serious about the wildcat.
This is just preliminary review, to see how it looks, etc. The gas check on the boolit is seated to right where the neck ends, and shoulder begins.

Left to right- 5.7mm Johnson (22 in a 30 Carbine case), 221 Fireball empty, 222 Rem empty, 223 modified/6mm wildcat, 223 empty. Might call mine the 6mm Longneck.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/Charlie%20Sometimes/22CaliberWildcats.jpg

[rhbrink]

That looks like a good one to me Charlie Sometimes, thats the biggest problem with a lot of these cartridges neck to dang short for boolits. Gotta love them long necks.

[redneckdan]

I'm Jealous. There are some fine wildcats there, must get to work and make one. The only wildcat I got was this one.:bigsmyl2:

A number 3 jump for that little puddy-tat?

[NoZombies]

Charlie that looks great. I know the 6x45 is real popular in South Africa, and I guess you *could* call what you've got the 6x45 long-neck. But only if you wanted to... :)

[PatMarlin]

They are all awesome. I gotta journey into he wildcat world someday.

[Charlie Sometimes]

MAYBE even the 6x45 CB (6x45 Cast Boolit)! :bigsmyl2:

[badgeredd]

MAYBE even the 6x45 CB (6x45 Cast Boolit)! :bigsmyl2:

EXCELLENT idea there Charlie. I have a 6mm TCU rifle and the only complaint is the short neck for cast. I may even follow through with you idea when I get some other idea guns finished. Thanks for the thought food.

Edd

[PatMarlin]

What signifies the "45" in 6x45?

[Charlie Sometimes]

Case length in millimeters is 45 on a 5.56 x 45mm NATO (223 Rem).

[Charlie Sometimes]

EXCELLENT idea there Charlie. I have a 6mm TCU rifle and the only complaint is the short neck for cast. I may even follow through with you idea when I get some other idea guns finished. Thanks for the thought food.

Edd

When, or if, you do, I'd be interested in a set of dies, etc. :smile:
You might get to it before I do, though- my project list is long, and the money is currently being spread thin to cover a lot of more pressing things right now.:sad:

[PatMarlin]

Case length in millimeters is 45 on a 5.56 x 45mm NATO (223 Rem).

Ah... I see. I was hoping to see someone squeez a .452 boolit in the case .... :redneck:

[Charlie Sometimes]

That was done earlier in the thread. :holysheep

[dragonrider]

A while back I bought a 22-30-30 reamer from a member here.. Last week I started making a new monobloc for my TCR-87 and will need to aquire a 22 cal barrel to chamber this cartridge. Dies for it are available from RCBS but are expensive at $140.00 or there abouts. No pictures yet as I don't have those dies.

[Dannix]

35/30-30 next to 30-30, 35x60 next to 30-06 parent case,
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Wildcats/Picture007.jpg
Edd
How do you like your 35/30-30? Seems like the 35/30-30 in an 1894 would epitomize an ideal brush gun.




http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28246&d=1294161842
4. 270-223. My Grandson decided he needed the above 270-221 a few years ago when he was around 9 or 10 years old. Last summer he decided he wanted more power so we rechambered to the 221s big brother. Gained about 400 fps and didn't lose a bit of accuracy. VERY mild recoil even with the 130gr. bullet. As you can see, the throats are very long so the bullets , in both cases, can be seated out to maximize the powder capacity. Since the XP is a single shot the seating depth is of little consequence except to be enough to hold the bullet during chambering.

Any cases issues? I'm very tempted to pursue a .30x.223 build (I believe it was first called .30 Apache), but I heard neck splitting when using .223 brass in the 7mm TCU was a serious issue. Any issues for you at 6.8mm?



Here is one Ive been working on off and on over the last couple years --- I call it the 8mm carbine --- will actually do everything for real that the 30-carbine was suppost to do and they lied to the men they sent into battle saying it would do --- combat range nock things over in a small physical size cartridge so you can carry plenty of rounds in your pack --- also to be a very cast boolit friendly round

Parent cartridge is the 223 Remington and the brass is made from the same --- I ultimatly plan on building a AR-15/M-16 carbine to use it in but so far just have a test gun built from an old mauser --- reason I chose 8mm is because that is the largest caliber that you can neck the 223 up to keeping the original case taper profile and still have enough shoulder to head space on --- basically just cut the original 223 brass off at the base of the shoulder and form the new neck and trim

http://forums.handloads.com/uploads/tommygirlMT/2009-10-20_080248_8mm_Carbine_Wild-Cat_01.JPG
That's one very interesting cartridge, particularly for boolits. What bullet weight are you using and what fps are you getting?

Seems we have the same goal, though I'd like something quicker. Concerning the .30 Carbine, the Remington .30Carbine JSP apparently yields very nice terminal damage at 2k fps (source link (http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.30%20carbine) -- good read in general by th way). I personally don't put a lot of stock in yaw/fragmentation. The JSP in a .223 case is quicker by several hundred fps, in fact almost approaching .30-30 performance.

There was a project recently called the 7.62x40 (http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1827). The developer has not responded to a PM I sent him. Looking over his AR15.com thread, I think he just got too beat up and fed up with the SPC/Grendel fanboys and just doesn't want to talk about the cartridge now. The trade off with the .30 Apache/.30 TCU/.30x.223/7.62x39USA/7.62x40 is that there's not a lot of room to play with for bigger boolits. The .30 Whisper fixes this issue, but to the detriment of case capacity. I'd like to get .30-30 performance from the .223 case, which is just about doable with only the lighter .30 boolits/j-words.

I'd love to start with the .30 Apache idea, and trade just a little case capacity for a bit longer neck to accommodate a bit longer/heavier boolits. I'm going to have to crunch some numbers, but a case dimension starting with .223 dimensions but modified with a neck to accommodate up to a 135gr (.30) boolit sounds ideal.


Here's what I was talking about in modifying the 223 Rem. to have a longer 222 Rem. neck to support the 6mm boolit (245498).
I ran a 223 case into a 222 Rem. trim die to form it, then up sized the neck in a 6mm Rem (244 Rem) sizer, then seated the boolit with the 6mm seater die. Of course, proper dies would have to be made if I get serious about the wildcat.
This is just preliminary review, to see how it looks, etc. The gas check on the boolit is seated to right where the neck ends, and shoulder begins.

Left to right- 5.7mm Johnson (22 in a 30 Carbine case), 221 Fireball empty, 222 Rem empty, 223 modified/6mm wildcat, 223 empty. Might call mine the 6mm Longneck.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/Charlie%20Sometimes/22CaliberWildcats.jpg
That 6mm longneck is precisely the sort of animal I'm interested in, albeit at .30cal. Thanks for the inspiration!




Marty at Teppo Jitsu Has done alot of work with the .338 Specter
Yeah, it's 10mm based. A while back I had the privilege to chat with Marty a bit via email concerning the .338 Spectre and the .458 Socom. I posted the correspondence somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. I think it's on AR15.com somewhere, hidden from search engines. I'll try to remember my rarely ever used login there and post the correspondence here.

[arjacobson]

28536 Sorry this one is mine.... Iowan hairless attack wildcat....very sneaky and mean.......sorry for the hi jack

[82nd airborne]

the 338 Spectre is actually a 10mm Magnum necked down.
http://www.teppojutsu.com/338.htm
The 223 blown out is called a 338-223 Straight.
http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w338223s.html

BWE is also making one:
http://www.bwefirearms.com/338.html

I stand corrected!

[Charlie Sometimes]

"6mm Longneck" sounds like a VERY TINY beer! :lol:

[RP]

http://http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/Ricky1965/WEIRD%20PICS/baddog.jpg
Not sure how wild the cat is but the dog is a player.

[PatMarlin]

LOL.

For my first wildcat rifle build, I want the most cast boolit friendly large boolit for a .223 case.

Starmetal Joe was talking about the 7.62x40 before he got bumped:

StarMetal
Banned
7.62x40mm

Pat,

Go to the website listed here and read about the 7.62x40 and pictures. I think this is much better then the Whisper.

Joe

http://www.ar15.com/forums//topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=382761&page=1


...:Fire:

[Charlie Sometimes]

Couple of wild cat die sets in Moly's for sale thread in Swap & Sell right now- I got the 6mm/30-30 Improved. :mrgreen: That might be interesting to try someday.
There 6mm-06 and 6.5mm-06 there, as well as a few other Improved and lesser "wildcats".

[Dannix]

Starmetal Joe was talking about the 7.62x40 before he got bumped:
Bummer that he's no longer with us, or rather that he behaved in a manner that got himself kicked. :?

The 7.62x40mm with a bit more neck looks like a winner. I may play with the length a bit too. I need to look into how large a metplat I can get without having feeding issues in the AR.

From the AR.com link (300-221, 7.62x39mmRussian, 7.62x40mm, and 5.56x45mm):
http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=3009

[PatMarlin]

Yaw- I miss the BOB too.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I always like the 7.62x39mm, but the best you could do was 150 gr. 30-30 performance. Which, I guess, ain't all that bad. Minimal for deer hunting, I think. But now you're getting somewhere with that 40mm case. How does case capacity compare to the Russian? Looks about the same to me.

[Dannix]

I always like the 7.62x39mm, but the best you could do was 150 gr. 30-30 performance. Which, I guess, ain't all that bad. Minimal for deer hunting, I think. But now you're getting somewhere with that 40mm case. How does case capacity compare to the Russian? Looks about the same to me.
Look closely at the bases. The 7.62x40 is based on the .223 case, so no reduced magazine capacity that the 7.62x39, .30 HRT, et al. would entail.

A .30 in a .223 is nothing new. If I got this right, Wes Ugalde came up with one first, called the .30 Apache. Apparently he's the guy behind the TCU line, so I'm assuming .30 Apache is what is also referred to as the .30 TCU, or at least an evolutionary step for Wes. (The .30 TCU is apparently very obscure as 7mm TCU got the limelight for whatever reason).The 7.62x40 developer initially used 7.62x39USA as his designation I believe.

7.62x40 http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1827
The first is built from DPMS components, 20" Noveske 1:12 twist rifle length gas system chambered in 7.62x39mmUSA, JP adjustable gas block, Leupold M3....25.3 grains of A1680 under a 110 V-Max = 2675fps...25.3 grains of A1680 under a 125 TNT = 2530fps....as far as accuracy I didn't bring any targets with me to the range....centered up on the 200 yard gong 20 rounds made a nice brite spot about the size of a quarter...

[PatMarlin]

Uh oh- my Mini-14 would love this.

[badgeredd]

How do you like your 35/30-30? Seems like the 35/30-30 in an 1894 would epitomize an ideal brush gun.

I love my conversion which is in a Marlin 336 and I have to agree it is a great light rifle woods gun. Honestly I would have to believe the 35 Remmy in a lever is a equal if a person wanted a factory cartridge. IMHO the neck length of the Remmy is its one shortcoming when using cast boolits...BUT that is only my opinion.

Edd

[Charlie Sometimes]

Look closely at the bases. The 7.62x40 is based on the .223 case, so no reduced magazine capacity that the 7.62x39, .30 HRT, et al. would entail. ......................The 7.62x40 developer initially used 7.62x39USA as his designation I believe.

I said CASE capacity for POWDER. Not magazine capacity for cartridges. Do you know volume in grains of water for the 7.62x40 case?

They still need longer necks for cast boolits! :bigsmyl2:

[Mk42gunner]

Not really a wildcat, but I met a young man in Australia that cut split necked .222 Remington cases off at the shoulder to use in a .30 Carbine. He said it worked well.

Robert

[ReloaderEd]

I used to shoot indoor .22 matches with a Winchester 52 Target Rifle. Decent ammunition is getting hard to come by and for the guys that shoot Anchutz with 30 Power scopes a dumped shot prone or anyother position is a ruined season for them.
I used to weigh every bullet out of a box of 100 and always found light ones and heavy ones which were put together in the same lot by weight.

I have often wondered why there isn't a center fire round, wildcat like the 25auto/22 that target shooter could load using 40 gr. round nose lyman bullets. I bet they would be more accurate than Ely if done properly. What do you all think? Be Safe[smilie=f:

[Dannix]

Thanks badgeredd.

Charlie, my mistake. I don't have any case volume data. I'm thinking about picking out a boolit for it, and then choosing a case and neck length based on the boolit. We'll see what happens. It's been moved towards the back burner for now, though I'll still be scouting out a boolit for it.

[nanuk]

has anyone ever opened up a 357mag chamber in a lever/pump gun for a bottle necked 357? kinda like a 357sig or 35/44?

I'm thinking of a simple way to boost my IMI Timberwolf. I drew plans where I could ream the chamber with a 35rem, so the base would be .440.

using 7.62/39 brass, size it, fireform it, trim it and you'd end up with IIRC about 25% more case capacity. the only issue I had was the "short neck" syndrome.

by my braindead calculations I was thinking I could approach 357MAX velocities. or exceed them slightly. all the while staying at the Mag Pressures.

somewhere I still have all my drawings.

it would only be appropriate in a short action lever or pump. as there would be better options in a longer action. Perhaps the short action could be made to handle a slightly longer cartridge. I"m not sure on that. but I think reworking the ejector, and the "Stop Shoulder" in the action of my TW would allow a slightly longer round, but not much.

[nanuk]

I always like the 7.62x39mm, but the best you could do was 150 gr. 30-30 performance. Which, I guess, ain't all that bad. Minimal for deer hunting, I think. But now you're getting somewhere with that 40mm case. How does case capacity compare to the Russian? Looks about the same to me.

last year, a friend of mine shot a spike bull moose with an SKS loaded with 125gr softpoints.

80 yds.
hit him behind the RF leg, penetrated through a rib, took off the top half of the heart, took out more rib and breastbone on the way out. complete exit.

I always likened the little 7.62 to an underpowered 30-30, but after hereing his story, I have to wonder.

Must have been a fairly stout j-word.

[jblee10]

Always wanted a lever gun in 357/44 Bain and Davis. Also wish Marlin would chamber their 444 in the 375jdj.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Proper shot placement is critical no matter what it is you are packing. They've killed Polar Bears with 22 LR but I wouldn't bet my life on that happening every shot. Use "Rare" sense and match your caliber and firearm to your target. If it was "Common" sense everyone would have it. :bigsmyl2: Not that they would be obligated to use it................. :roll:

I've had two SKS rifles, and you could not the the broad side of a barn with them, even if you were standing inside! I guess he must have had an exceptional rifle or lucky streak.

[Mk42gunner]

I used to shoot indoor .22 matches with a Winchester 52 Target Rifle. Decent ammunition is getting hard to come by and for the guys that shoot Anchutz with 30 Power scopes a dumped shot prone or anyother position is a ruined season for them.
I used to weigh every bullet out of a box of 100 and always found light ones and heavy ones which were put together in the same lot by weight.

I have often wondered why there isn't a center fire round, wildcat like the 25auto/22 that target shooter could load using 40 gr. round nose lyman bullets. I bet they would be more accurate than Ely if done properly. What do you all think? Be Safe[smilie=f:

Look up the .221 Askins. Charles Askins did a wildcat centerfire on a Colt Woodsman for the National Match centerfire stage, this is why the rules now state .32 cal or larger.

I think it was a trimmed Velo Dog case with rimfire bullets.

No reason it couldn't work in a rifle, if the rules would allow it.

Robert

[rhbrink]

Ain't no wildcat but Savage has chambered up the 5.7 X 28. I think that would make a great little boolit shooter, necks too dang short though.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Short necks is what I am running into-
22 Hornet has long enough neck, no case capacity.
221 Fireball has more case capacity, but no neck.
222 Rem has neck length and capacity.

That 5.7 x28mm is a wildcat last time I looked. There isn't a factory mass producing them now, is there? That is the 5.7mm Johnson, IIRC.
Even SMALLER than the 221 Fireball- the one in the picture (in one of my previous posts above) is about 33mm, and just made from a sized down 30 carbine case, which is what Johnson based his wildcat on to be used in the 30 M1 Carbine.
The short-necked rounds are intended for using the J-word projectiles. The designers weren't cast boolit aficanados, and it was not in vogue at the time, and still isn't for the majority of shooters. :smile:

[69daytona]

I have been looking and cant find anything on this one. 300 win mag necked down to 7mm.
I want to get about 200-300fps more out of the heavy 175,180 gr bullets than what the 7mag can do without going to the 7RUM or 7 Weatherby.
Has anyone tried this yet??

[Charlie Sometimes]

Wouldn't that wildcat pretty much be a 7mm Rem Mag?
What about looking to the 7mm STW, if you don't want a RUM or Weatherby?

[69daytona]

No, the 300 win mag case is 2.620 and the 7mag is 2.50, about an extra 9gr capacity. Im thinking with the new slower powders and a 26" barrel it should be right around 3100fps for the 180gr berger bullets I want to shoot. Im getting 2800 right now out of the 7 rem mag.

[NoZombies]

5.7x28 isn't a wildcat, it's the round chambered in the Fn 5.7 pistols and FN P90 carbine. It's a cute little round, and brass and ammo are becoming pretty available now. Heck, there was a pile of the brass in the range bucket when I was there yesterday.

The 5.7 johnson is still a wildcat, and a completely different case. It's based on the .30 carbine.

Neck is way too short for boolits on the 5.7x28 though. I originally thought about shortening a die and setting the shoulder back to make a wildcat out of it, but then decided that the 22/32 was a better choice for me.

I've got another wildcat I'll post later, I didn't develop it, but there aren't too many people shooting it anymore!

[Charlie Sometimes]

Thanks for clearing that up. I have yet to see the FN 5.7 pistols or carbines. My mind automatically went to the 5.7mm Johnson.
No mater what method of naming cartridges is used it seems confusing and insufficient, doesn't it? :veryconfu

[NoZombies]

I understand! I do wish there was a better naming system, but realistically, I think everybody who makes their own wildcat wants to name it themselves! Then sometimes they go into production, wouldn't you know it, some of those kooky names follow them :)

Didn't mean to be arguing either, just wanted to clear it up :)

[Good Cheer]

Had put this info up before on another thread but here's my wildcat.
It's a 375x45-70 designed to hold a lot of lube grooves and have optimum case volume.
The rifle has a 26" barrel on a modified Ruger No.3.
The hunting load for that rifle is a compressed charge of WW760, mag primer and Lymans 375296 cast from straight wheel weights. I've wanted to rebarrel a Marlin lever gun to see how the cartridge would work but never have gotten around to it. No doubt the pressure behavior would be very different in any other rifle besides the one I have.
Did a lot of research using different rifles and cartridges as platforms to study what works. After getting the knowledge base that was needed I designed the .375x45-70. After it was all said and done I found out that what I had was essentially a smokeless version of the 9.5 Mauser, Paul Mauser's cartridge that was the optimized design for military black powder cartridges just before smokeless took over. Oh well, what worked then works now!
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/38LC.jpg

[Charlie Sometimes]

Nice cartridge- that looks like a winner! :cool:
I'll bet that is fun to shoot. :grin:
Yea, I don't think there is nothing that can be built that hasn't been built already- for cast boolits anyway. Might be a few combinations out there that haven't, but it is fun to rehash old designs with modern "thinking" and components. :grin:
All the "new" cartridges ending in SSM, RUM, WSSM, (ad nausem) is intended for the j-words. I wonder if any of those powders would be useful under a CB in the right cartridge?

[Good Cheer]

Some of the new super mag powders might be great if you can get a consistent burn. The WW760 in the 375x45-70 just whooshes the slug down range. No telling how much is flying out of the barrel unburned even with the mag primer.

[Charlie Sometimes]

With that type cartridge, try Trail Boss with standard primer- close to BP, gives good velocities, and fills case. I like it in my 45-70 loads- it's accurate. :grin:
Per Hodgdon recommendations, measure case capacity to bottom of bullet using TB, and then back off 30%- that is Max and Start load limits. Work up from there until you are satisfied with accuracy and performance. In a Ruger #3 or a Marlin lever gun, I don't think you would have to back off that much to start. In fact, in my experience with TB, you can compress loads a little in those guns.

[PatMarlin]

Wildcats- the funny cars of the reloading industry. Very interesting subject.

[camotes2]

Hello: This is my cast bullet wildcat, simply put just a .357 Max. case run into a shortened .303 Savage die to achieve a longer neck. It is in a thick walled small martini, with a 28" tapered octagon bbl. Here is one of the better groups I achieved a few years ago. Come to think of it, I have not used it in about 9 or 10 years, (shame on me). Scoped with a Lyman jr. targetspot 15x. Shooting done at 100 m, and the load was 9gr. of AA #9, or 11gr. of Unique, bullet the old standby Lyman 311291..
A little too big to be a rook rifle, so i think next is a .38 special necked to .30 with a case length of 1" and half of the case length is neck. sort of like a 297-230 morris??

Sincerely Stan N...

[badgeredd]

A little too big to be a rook rifle, so i think next is a .38 special necked to .30 with a case length of 1" and half of the case length is neck. sort of like a 297-230 morris??

Sincerely Stan N...

Ya mean like the one in pictures 1 and 3 in post #3 of this thread? :kidding:

I'm thinking this would be a neat little rook rifle cartridge. I'm envisioning a "cheap" cartridge to make and reload with plentiful brass and if the throat is correct it should be fairly versatile too. It seems a couple three cohorts are of the same thinking too. :lol:

To me the wildcat world goes two directions and since I started using primarily cast boolits it has shot off into a third direction for me. [smilie=1:

Edd

[Charlie Sometimes]

To me the wildcat world goes two directions and since I started using primarily cast boolits it has shot off into a third direction for me. [smilie=1:

Edd

3rd direction? I think they call them fliers! :kidding:

[Good Cheer]

Some neat looking cartridges here: http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

Good Cheer, that looks like a neat round for a lever gun. Why give up meplat area though? Desire for greater sectional density at a given boolit weight?

Dannix, I've been threatening for years to get a Marlin '95 and try it out.
As to the boolit design, I had the 375296, tried it out and it worked, a slam dunk on deer. It's big enough and fast enough so just never got anything else...until now. NEI had a 320 grain round nose years ago and I got one. And it got stuck in storage. Not long ago it got HP'd by Erik. I don't know yet how fast it can be accurate.
On a side note, the round was designed with 200 yard deer hunting as part of the acceptance criteria. The 283 grains of ww alloy in the 375296 fills the bill. The scope is zeroed for 200 yards and there's no trajectory to memorize. The heavier slug is going to have a lot more rainbow. But, deer are seldom shot passed 100 yards any way, right?

[redneckdan]

I am starting to work on a rimless 375 JDJ...sort of a wild cat on a wild cat......

[Mk42gunner]

I am starting to work on a rimless 375 JDJ...sort of a wild cat on a wild cat......

Wouldn't that end up being a .375 Whelen, or the functional equivelant?

Robert

[redneckdan]

Sorta. Guess you could call it a 9.5x57 improved since the case is about the same length as a 8x57 case. But I already have the JDJ dies and this would have a better shoulder for head spacing.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Ah, the trouble one will go to to find the perfect cartridge combination based on only the stuff we already have, and not what has already been done elsewhere in another time! :kidding:

Scientific experimentation must be more about proving it to yourself, than about verifying someone elses work! :lol:
Ain't nuthin' like havin' it right there in your hand to see, feel, touch, and ponder upon, is there? But it is SO FUN! :grin:

[Dannix]

I've found it can be hard to get chamber and brass specs though, i.e. the info is too obscure or, for more recent developments, the designer is not willing to share it. Seems re-engineering or reverse-engineering a round is the only option sometimes. :-?

Ah, the trouble one will go to to find the perfect cartridge combination based on only the stuff we already have, and not what has already been done elsewhere in another time!

[Euan]

here is a couple of wildcat rounds that i use a lot. Mainly for hunting with cast boolits.
1st one is my 9.5 X57 ackley which I use on a small ring 98 mauser. I used a 6mm ackley reamer then a Manson .375 neck & throater to do chamber. I get good positive headspace with the Ack version. It is an excellent hunting combination.
2nd is the 375/303 which I have used for nearly 30 years in various rifles. my 3 favourates are my win 85 hi wall, my 95 win, and a large martini.
Cheers Euan

[Charlie Sometimes]

You know, I've never had a martini. How do they taste? :kidding:
Anything like a screwdriver? :lol:

How did you come up with dies for your 9.5 x 57 Ackley, same way?
You may be giving me ideas. :veryconfu

[redneckdan]

Here is my progress so far.


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/redneckdan/IMGP4267.jpg

Need to do a final trim to length on the 2nd case from the right. I plan to test the round at reduced capacity in my contender before looking into a barrel for a bolt gun.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Okay, I give up. What are you making above?
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a previous post about these.
Looks like you are going from 30-06 to what?

[Mk42gunner]

Goodlooking case there Dan, it ought to have enough capacity to do whatever you desire with boolits. It also has more than enough shoulder to headspace on.

Robert

[heathydee]

On a slightly different note .
I am planning a scratch build 30 calibre pump action rifle with a box magazine . Rimless cases work better in a box magazine and I am looking to have a case capacity of 45 grains or so ; sufficient space to allow a slow burning powder - 4350 for instance - to get a 200 grainer to 2200 fps with low pressure . A 308 case almost fits the bill because of availability and cost but the neck is too short . A thought which occurred to me was to run a 308 case into a shortened full length resizing die to move the shoulder back about a quarter inch resulting in a nice , long , cast boolit friendly neck .
Has anyone heard of such a thing ?

[redneckdan]

Okay, I give up. What are you making above?
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a previous post about these.
Looks like you are going from 30-06 to what?

Cases from left to right:


30-06

30-06 sized in 375 JDJ die in order to properly head space for fire forming

30-06 fire formed in 375 JDJ contender with 5.0 gr of red dot and a case full of cream of wheat . Fire forming blows the .30-06 neck out to fit the 375 JDJ neck. Also rough trimming is done

375 JDJ-rimless Needs a final trim and load with a war shot in order to fully form the case.


My goal is 375 whelen performance using dies I already have. Also the shorter case will allow longer bullets to be seated out further and still fit in the magazine.

[Charlie Sometimes]

COOL! Now I am up to speed. Thanks.
That does turn out nice- I like. :grin:

[Dannix]

375 JDJ-rimless Needs a final trim and load with a war shot in order to fully form the case.
Could you elaborate on "war shot"? I'm unfamiliar with it, and I'm sure you can imagine the deluge of unrelated hits I got when I attempted to websearch for it.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I think he means a full power load- something you would go to war or hunt with, if necessary.
Not a common slang term- but I think I caught the jist of the intent.
Heck, I could be wrong.

[redneckdan]

Yup. He is right. Full power load to fully form the case to the chamber. Right now the shoulders have a larger radius than normal. The cream of wheat firing was mostly to blow the 30-06 neck out to fit the 375 neck. I had tried forming the neck up with a progression of sizing buttons but that did not work well. Blowing the case out worked best. Since the case being formed is tight fit on the shoulder there is no need to have the proper extractor in the contender. The shoulder holds the head space for firing and a little lift up with a blade screw drive extracts the fired case from the chamber.

[Dannix]

Yup. He is right. Full power load to fully form the case to the chamber.
war shot = full power. Gotcha.


Right now the shoulders have a larger radius than normal. The cream of wheat firing was mostly to blow the 30-06 neck out to fit the 375 neck. I had tried forming the neck up with a progression of sizing buttons but that did not work well. Blowing the case out worked best.
Do you consider your war loads as just a case prep step, or do you bother to actually shoot groups with them?


Since the case being formed is tight fit on the shoulder there is no need to have the proper extractor in the contender. The shoulder holds the head space for firing and a little lift up with a blade screw drive extracts the fired case from the chamber.
I'm afraid my knowledge of the contender is lacking. Are you noting this because a rimless would usually headspace on the extractor in a contender otherwise?

[redneckdan]

war shot = full power. Gotcha.


Do you consider your war loads as just a case prep step, or do you bother to actually shoot groups with them?


I'm afraid my knowledge of the contender is lacking. Are you noting this because a rimless would usually headspace on the extractor in a contender otherwise?


At this point I do not know if the forming loads would group decently or not. I mentioned the head space so that when some one else reads this thread they understand what I am doing before they post about 'hey you can't do that, the '06 doesn't fit the extractor...':groner:

[rockrat]

Here is my version of the necked down 357max. Has a 30-30 length neck on it. Designed it for Coors, but ended up shooting it in IHMSA
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d149/Bigdog337/001-6-3.jpg

Now if I can find my 44-284 ammo, I will post a pic of that. Built it for IHMSA, and also built a rifle with it and shot my first elk with it. In the rifle, it was a 265gr Hornady @2,550 fps

[357maximum]

On a slightly different note .
I am planning a scratch build 30 calibre pump action rifle with a box magazine . Rimless cases work better in a box magazine and I am looking to have a case capacity of 45 grains or so ; sufficient space to allow a slow burning powder - 4350 for instance - to get a 200 grainer to 2200 fps with low pressure . A 308 case almost fits the bill because of availability and cost but the neck is too short . A thought which occurred to me was to run a 308 case into a shortened full length resizing die to move the shoulder back about a quarter inch resulting in a nice , long , cast boolit friendly neck .
Has anyone heard of such a thing ?


How about a 308W case that has been ran into a .300 savage die ?????? I know it has been done somewhere.

[rockrat]

Now if you were building a bolt gun, you could set back the 308 bbl, cut off your dies and maybe run a 30-30 reamer in the chamber to lengthen the neck.

Hmmm, might have to try that one of these days. Have a spare 308 varmint barrel lying around, don't think I have a 30-30 reamer, but my 30/357max reamer might work just fine. Will have to check neck diameters.

Thats all I need, ANOTHER project:)

[NoZombies]

c'mon who doesn't need another project?

[heathydee]

How about a 308W case that has been ran into a .300 savage die ?????? I know it has been done somewhere.

I have had a look here at the 300 Savage and 308 Winchester drawings .http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm
Doing as you suggest would lengthen the neck a couple of millimetres but not as much as I want . A neck around a half inch long , still with the 20 degree shoulder would (in my mind at least) make a perfect thirty calibre cast boolit cartridge .
Long , cast boolit friendly neck .
Easily formed from readily available brass .
Around a 40 to 45 grain powder capacity so the slower powders for the cartridge could ease a heavy for calibre cast boolit up to the 2200 fps mark .
Rimless cartridge works better in a box magazine.
A Lee Collet die,bullet seating die and factory crimp die could be used unmodified . As could their case trimmer . Full length re-sizing would be the only problem .

This is a wildcat that has been in my mind lately and unless anyone can come up with a better (or previous) name I am going to call it the 30 Cast Boolit .

[Dannix]

This is a wildcat that has been in my mind lately and unless anyone can come up with a better (or previous) name I am going to call it the 30 Cast Boolit .
Sounds like a neat wildcat! Could you choose a more specific name though? Perhaps one that indicated OAL, or parent case, et al? I imagine over the years there will be quite a number of .30 calibre "Cast Boolit" designs by different members here.

What parent case are you considering? 30-06 or perhaps something fatter?

[heathydee]

A 308 Winchester as the parent case . I mentioned that in my first post in this topic and did not repeat it in my last post . Apologies .
I am going out to the garage shortly to make a "D" reamer which will cut a case forming die before it gets too hot here . I might have something to look at in a couple of days.

[Dannix]

Ah, I see your post now. I read that one, but I didn't associate you with both posts. My apologies. Keep us posted!

[Charlie Sometimes]

heathydee- I want to see that one when you get it done! That sounds like another winner. :smile:

I like the size of 7.62x39 Russian, but I sure wish it had a longer neck, too, but for a cast boolit of regular proportion. My big ol' fingers have a hard time with cases smaller than that in a rifle, and something like your above project might give me ideas.

I don't care how much these old cartridges are bumped up or back, I like this stuff. Rehashing previous work is great fun and good reading, too! :bigsmyl2:

And, heathydee, where are you that it is getting "too hot" this time of year? Down Under? I'm burning up my propane stock in my shop just trying to stay around 40 degrees to do some afternoon reloading.

[PatMarlin]

You know, I've never had a martini. How do they taste? :kidding:
Anything like a screwdriver? :lol:

How did you come up with dies for your 9.5 x 57 Ackley, same way?
You may be giving me ideas. :veryconfu

I've never had a martini either, and I keep forgetting to try one. They look so good when James Bond has one at the craps table... :mrgreen:

[Charlie Sometimes]

I was thinking about something on a smaller diameter case- not as small as a 223, but not as big as a 308 either. :veryconfu

308 Long Neck- now that sounds like a slightly bigger beer! :lol:

[thehouseproduct]

I have had a look here at the 300 Savage and 308 Winchester drawings .http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm
Doing as you suggest would lengthen the neck a couple of millimetres but not as much as I want . A neck around a half inch long , still with the 20 degree shoulder would (in my mind at least) make a perfect thirty calibre cast boolit cartridge .
Long , cast boolit friendly neck .
Easily formed from readily available brass .
Around a 40 to 45 grain powder capacity so the slower powders for the cartridge could ease a heavy for calibre cast boolit up to the 2200 fps mark .
Rimless cartridge works better in a box magazine.
A Lee Collet die,bullet seating die and factory crimp die could be used unmodified . As could their case trimmer . Full length re-sizing would be the only problem .

This is a wildcat that has been in my mind lately and unless anyone can come up with a better (or previous) name I am going to call it the 30 Cast Boolit .

I'd take a savage barrel in one of those. If it was just a 308 with the shoulders pushed down, you could use trimmers, crimpers and seating dies for 308. All you would need is a reamer and full length die.

[heathydee]

And, heathydee, where are you that it is getting "too hot" this time of year? Down Under? I'm burning up my propane stock in my shop just trying to stay around 40 degrees to do some afternoon reloading.

Yeah mate . the Great South Land . Currently 35 degrees Celsius in the shade .

[heathydee]

A day in the garage was spent first of all making a reamer out of drill rod and then a die to push the shoulder back on some once fired 308 cases . This is the result . I am quite pleased really . The neck is .440" long ; long enough to cover the lube grooves of every 30 calibre cast boolit for which I have moulds , and powder capacity to the base of the neck is 45 grains of AR2209/H4350 .
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/album.php?albumid=483

[bigdog454]

I would like to take a 35 rem shorten it to the length of a 7.62X39 and fit that cartridge to a SKS rifle, would make a He++ of a hog gun in MHO. be able to use .357 boolits or jacketed.
BD

[Dannix]

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=483&pictureid=3304

That's one neat looking bespoke boolit cartridge heathydee. I assume you're going to have to turn the necks, yeah?

[rhbrink]

Boy-O-Boy that would be a dandy!

[heathydee]

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=483&pictureid=3304

That's one neat looking bespoke boolit cartridge heathydee. I assume you're going to have to turn the necks, yeah?

It may not be necessary Dannix . I cut the forming die to match the neck diameter of a fired case . I can cut a chamber with the same reamer . A .311" boolit slips easily all the way through the neck . I ordered a 308 Winchester Lee Deluxe die kit yesterday and as soon as it arrives , I will see how much of the neck the collet die will re-size . I expect it will re-size no more than the original neck length leaving 3/16"or so unsized . That should not be an issue and then I can assemble some dummy cartridges to come up with an overall length . Delivery time for the die set will be about ten days .
This is only the first step . Long way to go .

[Dannix]

It may not be necessary Dannix . I cut the forming die to match the neck diameter of a fired case . I can cut a chamber with the same reamer . A .311" boolit slips easily all the way through the neck . I ordered a 308 Winchester Lee Deluxe die kit yesterday and as soon as it arrives , I will see how much of the neck the collet die will re-size . I expect it will re-size no more than the original neck length leaving 3/16"or so unsized . That should not be an issue and then I can assemble some dummy cartridges to come up with an overall length . Delivery time for the die set will be about ten days .
This is only the first step . Long way to go .
Awesome. I'll be watching with interest. .308 Boolit Special?

[Charlie Sometimes]

Hey, here's one that will be a while in the making for me, but it looks to have LOTS of cast boolit potential. :grin:
I bought the 6mm/30-30 Ackley Improved die set from Molly. Got them today, cleaned them up, and put a couple of junk cases through them to see them work. Then I made chamber cast of the sizer die to check dimensions, etc. It has a real nice long neck just right for the Lyman 245498. :mrgreen:
Now, I need to find a nice single shot rifle in a 6mm or 30-30 that I can turn into a CB shooter deluxe! I'll really have to save up for this project. :roll:

I'll post a picture of the chamber cast tomorrow, I need to do it over again, with a warm die body to get a real good one for taking dimensions, so I know where to go from here next. :smile:

[Euan]

Originally Posted by Charlie Sometimes
You know, I've never had a martini. How do they taste?
Anything like a screwdriver?

How did you come up with dies for your 9.5 x 57 Ackley, same way?
You may be giving me ideas.

Charlie & Pat,
Don't know about taste of Martini's, I tend to like to be hanging on to the butt end of them. I have seen what happens to the to the intended targets at the front end many a time. Not real good for them.
The dies; i just neck size at the moment, And seat with a shortened 375 H&H die.
Heathydee;
Where did you get the 30/357 reamer you used on your little martini? As I am quite keen to do one.
Cheers Euan

[heathydee]

Heathydee;
Where did you get the 30/357 reamer you used on your little martini? As I am quite keen to do one.
Cheers Euan
Here is a link to the whole sad story .


http://garagegunsmithing.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=54&jfile=viewtopic.php&f=34&t=912

[Charlie Sometimes]

Picture of the 6mm/30-30 Ackley Improved sizing die casting next to a chamber and bore casting of a 375 Win (1:18 twist), and a 222 Rem. (factory twist), for size reference.

Neck is as long as a standard 30-30 and just right for the gas check on a Lyman 245498 to remain in the neck and case to crimp in the crimp groove- as best as I can tell from this casting. The casting ends right where the neck would end.

These are all made from Cerro-Safe. In bores, I just usually lube the bore and then plug it about an inch or so ahead of the chamber with a cleaning patch rammed tight against another ram rod, but for the sizing die I used a 311316 w/gc down, and then used the decap rod retention bushing to set the boolit solid against the "mouth" of the sizing chamber. Remove that, it tapped right out! Worked like a charm.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/Charlie%20Sometimes/3castings-1.jpg

[NoZombies]

Some of the stuff you guys have been coming up with is pretty neat. I like the looks of all the cast-specific wildcats here.

I think the "next" project for me will be something in 6mm caliber. I don't own anything in any 6mm right now, and I think I should.

Here's a little progress on the wildcat I'm currently working on. It's for the 22/32 project.

http://nozombies.com/reamer.jpg

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

If I knew how to post pictures, I'd show you all my 22 Eargesplitten-Loudenboomer. AKA, the 22-378 Wbee.

Rich

[badgeredd]

If I knew how to post pictures, I'd show you all my 22 Eargesplitten-Loudenboomer. AKA, the 22-378 Wbee.

Rich

I'd bet it isn't cast friendly. :kidding:

Edd

[nanuk]

If I knew how to post pictures, I'd show you all my 22 Eargesplitten-Loudenboomer. AKA, the 22-378 Wbee.

Rich


I'd bet it isn't cast friendly. :kidding:

Edd


might work with 10gr unique? THE cast boolit load?

[PrimitiveBeasty]

I believe this is it:

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/22-Eargesplitten-Loudenboomer-Comparison.jpg

There are a bunch of other pictures that show up when you search for the Eargesplitten Loudenboomer. This is one of them:

http://outdoor-chat.959241.n3.nabble.com/file/n1739932/Real17power.jpg

I don't know exactly what they are - from the sound of it, most of these are just put together as a curiosity. :smile:

[nanuk]

hah... looks like they'd be good for blowing something up

[82nd airborne]

haha yeah like a gun.

[Dannix]

I'm not sure if this is on the list yet, but this is an interesting intermediate round. Apparently one of the co-designers of the 6.8SPC designed it specially disregarding AR-15 confines.

7x46mm Murray
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19936

[turbo1889]

Well, I havn't built it yet. Just drawing board and calculator work but if I ever do build a wildcat cartridge, this would probably be it:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5441038455_94c121b5eb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/54455625@N04/5441038455/)

To be used in the Glock model 20 with a custom replacement barrel and possibly a full long slide (LS) conversion project. My 357-LNAM (Long Neck Auto Magnum) flanked on either side by competing cartridges. Basically just a 357-Sig. with the neck extended to match the length of 10mm brass. Would work in the 10mm G-20 magazines (and for that matter any other 10mm magazine) a lot better then the 357-Sig. (which is too short and rattles back and forth and messes up the stack alignment) with the additional benefits including much better neck tension combined with better case capacity since the bullet would not protrude into the powder area. The already existing cartridge which could be considered as directly competing with my design is the 9x25-Dillion which has developed a reputation for having even worse neck tension issues then the 357-Sig. and offers only a marginal (approx 6%) powder capacity advantage over my 357-LNAM set-up with the additional benefit that a gun chambered for such a 357-LNAM Wildcat could still chamber and fire the 357-Sig. cartridge with complete safety provided the chamber was cleaned before switching back to 357-LNAM rounds (to prevent neck pinching from heavy fowling of the exposed neck area from firing the shorter necked 357-Sig. cartridge). In either case my 357-LNAM round would have an increase in case capacity of 0.19cc added on to the 1.27cc case capacity of the 357-Sig. which although still not touching the 1.75cc case capacity of the 357-mag and falling in at slightly less then the 1.55cc case capacity of the 9x25-Dillion does offer an improvement towards matching 357-mag ballistic capabilities beyond what the 357-Sig. is capable of while offering a vast improvement in neck tension and thus potentially the consistency and accuracy of the cartridge.

Obviously plenty of potential for cast boolits as well; probably have to stick to designs with a GC though. I don't think PB or BB would work very well since a regular 9x19 can be troublesome for lead boolits without using a GC and this would be an even more intense cartridge.

[ZebDeming]

I load for a round that I created, from cut down and turned WSM brass. I call it the .510 Deming Destroyer. Cases are cut to .9, then expanded with a .510 mandrel, this makes the "neck" swell to bigger than the base, so I turn the whole case OD to the same size. It's kinda like a big 45.

Here's some loaded up

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee41/zebdeming/510DD/DSCN0490.jpg

I didn't have a mold for the boolits, and one couldn't be located for light enough boolits in .510 diameter, so I made one. Well more like modified a Lee mold. I turned a piece of O1 drill rod to the dimensions I wanted the boolit to be

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee41/zebdeming/510DD/DSCN0452.jpg

Then after some grinding to make a cutting edge, I had a cutter for the mold. I placed the mold blocks in the 4 jaw and the cutter in the tool post ran the cutter into the mold and then backed it out till the diameter was correct, The lathe was run at it's slowest speed

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee41/zebdeming/510DD/DSCN0459.jpg

Here are the blocks after cutting

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee41/zebdeming/510DD/DSCN0463.jpg

And here are a couple boolits IIRC they're around 335 grains

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee41/zebdeming/510DD/DSCN0466.jpg

I've been planing on hollow pointing the mold to lower the weight a bit. My chrono has been on the fritz so I haven't got a reliable velocity reading yet.
It's chambered in a homebuilt bolt action rifle, but someday I'm going to chamber it in some sort of pistol.

Zeb

[PatMarlin]

Wow- great work Zeb!

[PatMarlin]

Then after some grinding to make a cutting edge, I had a cutter for the mold. I placed the mold blocks in the 4 jaw and the cutter in the tool post ran the cutter into the mold and then backed it out till the diameter was correct, The lathe was run at it's slowest speed

Zeb

Zeb- How did you grind the O1 to get your cutter shape and do you have a pic of your cutter?

That is a great idea. I need to do something similar soon and never thought of turning the complete profile first. I've never made any conventional molds before but your way makes total sense to me.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Now that is a good one, Zeb! :cool:
What is the COL, since you are using it in a rifle?
As big as a 45 Win Mag?

I like that! That is what it is all about right there. :smile:

[Bullshop]

I am not absolutely sure but think that the .510" diameter may be illegal as it will be classed by BATF as a destructive device.
I am not taking a stand on either side of the fence just mentioning it. It may be a good idea to check it out before you take it to a public range where some jealous individuals may delight in causing you trouble.

[ZebDeming]

Thanks guys, If you guys are interested I could start a thread on my mold instead of thread jack this one.
Alot of stuff is .510, 50 bmg, 500 linebaugh, 50 alaskan, 50-70 etc. The reason .510 passes muster is the wording of the law, law reads bore diameter, not groove, the test is a rod that's just a bit over 1/2" and if it fits the barrel then DD it is, being that the bore is .500 and groove diameter is .510, it passes muster.

Zeb

[rhbrink]

Wow- great work Zeb!

Since I won a nice Browning 270 last summer, I want to rebore my old 270 that's a commercial FN Mauser to something cast friendly and bigger than 35 cal, as I already have a 358 Win.

I've got a good amount of 270, 308, 30'06, and 300 win mag brass. What would you guys suggest for a rebore based on one of those cases, if it can be done?

Since you already have a .358 I would think a .375-'06, looks to me like a real hammer to me!

[Charlie Sometimes]

Thanks guys, If you guys are interested I could start a thread on my mold instead of thread jack this one.

Up to you, but that would probably be the thing to do- it could get long. This one is getting long now- but it is very interesting, too.

[Dannix]

Welcome to the forum Zeb!


If you guys are interested I could start a thread on my mold instead of thread jack this one.
I'd be very interested. A new thread would indeed probably be the wisest route.

[PatMarlin]

Yes by all means- start a thread. Leave a link for it here Zeb!

[82nd airborne]

I am not absolutely sure but think that the .510" diameter may be illegal as it will be classed by BATF as a destructive device.
I am not taking a stand on either side of the fence just mentioning it. It may be a good idea to check it out before you take it to a public range where some jealous individuals may delight in causing you trouble.

there is an exclusion for .510"

[PatMarlin]

Is there an official 'Wildcat Database" some wheres where the wildcats that get famous are listed and seen?

[Dannix]

Is there an official 'Wildcat Database" some wheres where the wildcats that get famous are listed and seen?
I thought that was wikipedia -- but the wildcat has to be sufficiently famous for the moderators there to not take it down i.e. it has to be glorified in the gun rags, and some of the the moderators may be fanboys of a particular cartridge.

I'm thinking about setting up a website solely for wildcats. Maybe I should make it wikipedia-like where members here can independently contribute to it. I'll post here if/when I have it up, but it may be some time.

[turbo1889]

I think there is an entire forum out there that is about wildcatting cartridges just like this forum is about cast boolits.

As to an official list; the extensive reloading die chart at CH-4D is probably the closest thing your going to come to since they offer reloading dies for almost every cartridge ever made that is well known enough to have a semi-standardized name and at least a handful of people want loading dies for. Personally the only existing established wildcat cartridges I have experience with and feel are worth while are the 338-08 (now the 338 Federal since it got adopted), the 8mm-06, and the 35-30/30 all of which are excellent cast boolit cartridges. I especially like the 338-08 and I was building guns for that round long before it was adopted and became the 338 Federal.

I have yet to do up my own original wildcat though. As I posted above my best idea for a pistol cartridge is the 357-LNAM. I also wouldn't mind making a rimless 357-max from blown out and cut down 223-Rem. and chamber a nice little semi-auto carbine like the mini-14 with a 16.5" barrel for it.

[badgeredd]

Here is one list of some more popular wildcats, Pat. A Google search will get a few more. There have been a few books too.

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartw.html

Edd

P.S. Here is a blog about wildcats too.

http://wildcatintel.com/blog/

[bjeffv]

Very nice and interesting rounds here.

[Dannix]

The 7.62x40 is now available from Wilson Combat, FYI.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=382761&page=33

[Charlie Sometimes]

I'm not enthusiastic about the various 30 caliber wildcats based on the 223 Rem or 5.56 NATO case. I think they need more shoulder to head space off of, and a longer neck (for cast boolit use, of course :grin:). 6 to 7mm tops is the largest useful diameter, IMHO.

I'm still considering my options for a 6mm/30-30 AI rifle. Might rebarrel my Ruger #3, but would rather have a bolt action repeater to use for varmint or predator hunting.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Let me see if I can find any of my 22-378Wbee AI rounds laying around.

Rich

[82nd airborne]

I'm not enthusiastic about the various 30 caliber wildcats based on the 223 Rem or 5.56 NATO case. I think they need more shoulder to head space off of, and a longer neck (for cast boolit use, of course :grin:). 6 to 7mm tops is the largest useful diameter, IMHO.

I'm still considering my options for a 6mm/30-30 AI rifle. Might rebarrel my Ruger #3, but would rather have a bolt action repeater to use for varmint or predator hunting.

We ran 2000rds through a single .300 BLK without a hitch, and since we were using ball powder, it got nasty after about 20 rounds, but it never failed to fire, so I think headspace is good.
Also, Shooting semi auto, not single feeding, my ar's will keep an RCBS 200gr under an inch (5 shots) consistantly.
However, I much agree with you on something, even though you didnt say it directly, 6x45 is absolutly perfect. I know from experience that it will drop a black buck at 322 yards, with one shot. An 80g bullet with a fairly high BC, going at 2750fps is pretty cool.

The only one that might be better to me is the .257-.223. I happen to be blessed with several nice .257 moulds, and a 1:9" barrel shoots em all beautifully. I may have just changed my mind. Maybe 6mm isnt perfect, maybe .25 is....

[mpkunz]

OK, this is my offering. I call it the 44Kunz.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_62124d9ba2a47adba.jpg
The bullet is a custom LEE mould, bore riding, 0.430" diameter, GC'd, and weighs in finished at 455 grains.
Brass is made by cutting down any of the cases like .270, .30-'06, etc., to a length of 1.900". Fired from my humble Turk Mauser, with a suppressor, it does just under 1000 fps and is quiet I can shoot all afternoon just outside the kitchen window while my wife does her thing inside and she doesn't hear it. They are good for 1.5", or 1 minute of Bambi sized groups at 100 yards. I can load them as hot as about 1950 fps, but even at 950-1000 fps they pass clean through deer, even when encountering the spine.

[thehouseproduct]

OK, this is my offering. I call it the 44Kunz.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_62124d9ba2a47adba.jpg
The bullet is a custom LEE mould, bore riding, 0.430" diameter, GC'd, and weighs in finished at 455 grains.
Brass is made by cutting down any of the cases like .270, .30-'06, etc., to a length of 1.900". Fired from my humble Turk Mauser, with a suppressor, it does just under 1000 fps and is quiet I can shoot all afternoon just outside the kitchen window while my wife does her thing inside and she doesn't hear it. They are good for 1.5", or 1 minute of Bambi sized groups at 100 yards. I can load them as hot as about 1950 fps, but even at 950-1000 fps they pass clean through deer, even when encountering the spine.
We were talking about a wildcat just like this for the AR.

[mpkunz]

Really ? Funny you should mention that. I built one ! The design criteria on the round itself were done so the upper would work with an unmodified AR-15 lower.

[scrapcan]

Part of the thread may have talked about fitting wildcats to the ar platform, but the original post was about show us your wildcats and was open to all platforms. I like to see and hear them all, not only the black rifle category.

[Charlie Sometimes]

25 cal may be better, I would not argue that. I don't have, nor have ever owned a 25 caliber anything, so I could not rightly say. But, I was not intending to get into too heavy a range of boolits, so I chose the 6mm, and also because I have experience with, and own, one! :happy dance:

[Charlie Sometimes]

OK, this is my offering. I call it the 44Kunz.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_62124d9ba2a47adba.jpg
The bullet is a custom LEE mould, bore riding, 0.430" diameter, GC'd, and weighs in finished at 455 grains.
Brass is made by cutting down any of the cases like .270, .30-'06, etc., to a length of 1.900". Fired from my humble Turk Mauser, with a suppressor, it does just under 1000 fps and is quiet I can shoot all afternoon just outside the kitchen window while my wife does her thing inside and she doesn't hear it. They are good for 1.5", or 1 minute of Bambi sized groups at 100 yards. I can load them as hot as about 1950 fps, but even at 950-1000 fps they pass clean through deer, even when encountering the spine.

Would be a good round for fighting in Middle East. Not only would it stop a drug induced sucide attacker in his tracks, it might cause missunderstanding with the moniker, and they would think were getting the first half of their 72 virgins now! :lol:

Sorry for the bad joke, but I couldn't resist. :bigsmyl2:

[mpkunz]

Our original goal was to get military sales for exactly that situation. Awesome penetration even at subsonic speeds. The bullet is a momentum pig. We experimented around some on an old cement block wall. It can cut down a cement block wall a cell at a time - two rounds per block to make them disintegrate into rubble. Two GI's each with a couple 20 round mags could cut down a cement block house in a matter of about a minute. We lined up 8 five gallon pails full of water, the bullet stopped in the last one.

Retired before it even got started. Now its just an inexpensive and fun plinker.

[blasternank]

I'll get some pictures up of my 309 and 358 JDJ's I shoot out of my T/C pistols. Great rounds and great deer slayers!!

[Dannix]

Not sure if this cartridge has been mentioned yet, but the 6.5 PCC caught my eye today.

223/5.56X45 62gr. FMJBT, Untrimmed 6.5 PCC, Short Loaded (1.625" Case,2.238" COL w/ 100gr. Nosler BT) 6.5 PCC
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx65/Doc69er/P1000248.jpg

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/65mm-Patriot-Combat-Car-t95187.html

To bad its neck is so short.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Our original goal was to get military sales for exactly that situation. Awesome penetration even at subsonic speeds. The bullet is a momentum pig. We experimented around some on an old cement block wall. It can cut down a cement block wall a cell at a time - two rounds per block to make them disintegrate into rubble. Two GI's each with a couple 20 round mags could cut down a cement block house in a matter of about a minute. We lined up 8 five gallon pails full of water, the bullet stopped in the last one.

Retired before it even got started. Now its just an inexpensive and fun plinker.

They have "grenade" rounds, etc. for 12 ga. that can do that, and MORE. They probably wouldn't have wanted to add another link to the supply line for yours anyway. Best thing is you got the fun of build a toy for your retirement- like making your own pocket watch that they used to give everyone who "made it". :grin:

[Whistler]

I am currently exploring the possibilites of reaming a .357 Mag Desert Eagle barrel to .357/44 Bain & Davis. In theory everything works out, the gun itself should be perfectly capable of handling it and with .44 Magnum mags it should feed fine. The bolt should work without problems. Reality does not always go well with theory however and since this is my first wildcat project I am a bit cautious.

What is required once I have the reamer and the reloading/case forming dies? Do I hand the reamer and barrel to a gunsmith? Does he require dummy cases that I make first? What kind of equipment does he need? I'm asking, since the few smiths I have asked have never done something like this.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Not sure if this cartridge has been mentioned yet, but the 6.5 PCC caught my eye today.

223/5.56X45 62gr. FMJBT, Untrimmed 6.5 PCC, Short Loaded (1.625" Case,2.238" COL w/ 100gr. Nosler BT) 6.5 PCC
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx65/Doc69er/P1000248.jpg

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/65mm-Patriot-Combat-Car-t95187.html

To bad its neck is so short.

Yea too bad about "no neck", but the 6.5 looks like it could be in the running with 6mm & 257 for the best 223 wildcat mod! ::bigsmyl2:

[mpkunz]

What is required once I have the reamer and the reloading/case forming dies? Do I hand the reamer and barrel to a gunsmith? Does he require dummy cases that I make first? What kind of equipment does he need? I'm asking, since the few smiths I have asked have never done something like this.[/QUOTE]

FWIW, it depends. I've done several. You need to talk to the gunsmith.

[82nd airborne]

25 cal may be better, I would not argue that. I don't have, nor have ever owned a 25 caliber anything, so I could not rightly say. But, I was not intending to get into too heavy a range of boolits, so I chose the 6mm, and also because I have experience with, and own, one! :happy dance:

Couldnt be more right there. I went the route of, " Hey wife, this .257-223 and .243-223, are soooo much different, that I really need both. 6x45 is getting kind of popular, and you know a .250 sav was my first centerfire so....."
Of course she rolled her eyes and I ended up with both.
The difference in velocities of both are so minute that it doesnt really matter.

[Dannix]

The difference in velocities of both are so minute that it doesnt really matter.
Seems to be true for all the made-for-ar15 .223 wildcats based on what I've seen e.g. 6x45, 6.5PPC, 7x40 (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=397161&page=5) and 7.62x40.


I'm not enthusiastic about the various 30 caliber wildcats based on the 223 Rem or 5.56 NATO case. I think they need more shoulder to head space off of, and a longer neck (for cast boolit use, of course :grin:). 6 to 7mm tops is the largest useful diameter, IMHO.
One thing I found was the 7mm jword arR15 options have a higher BC than the 7.62 ar15options, unsurprisingly. But based on my gander over at Midway, I was surprised to see the 7.62 ar15 options have a higher BC than the greater sectional density 6.8 SPC options. I guess the jword designers are still coming up with projectiles bespoke for the 6.8SPC.

Concerning the ar15 platform, the mag length seems to be really holding us back to a great extent. To the extent that I think if we were to replace the 5.56, we should also strongly consider moving to a platform with a greater mag length. If I unexpectedly found myself with copious amounts of dough, I'd be tempted put it to the development of an intermediate ar-like design somewhere between the ar-15 and ar-10. An ar-14 if you will.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I like to have (when using J-words) a wide selection of weights, but always seem to end up settling on a one single bullet for all around use that is near the top end of the weight range. I want SMACK DOWN included with the accuracy (my first demand). :target_smiley:

With cast boolits, I want a cast with sufficiently long neck to hold that cast boolit properly, then I apply the other above standards to it. Got to start off on the right foot, IMHO. :-D

The BC will depend on the bullet and the velocity at which it can be driven, given the case capacity and the powder used. Sectional density is about the only factor that can be taken from a reference and used directly to compare each bullet to give an indication of potential results, without actually doing the math or shooting.

For load development, I pick powders from the powder manufacturers lists recommended for that cartridge and bullet weight combination, that give highest velocity for the lowest pressures (based on the maximum charges allowed column) and develope my loads from the recommended starting weights, and go from there until accuracy is achieved. But based on that initial choice, I don't always settle on the highest value shown, usually it is the 2nd or sometimes 3rd powder down the list that works the best given my conditions, etc. :roll:

Now, with a wildcat that may not have data immmediately available, I choose the powder base on the parent cartridge case reccomendations, and extrapolate about the bullet weight, based on past reloading experience and the data present in front of me. I have also been using Wiljen's Reloaders Reference to compare my choices to calculated data recommendations, and just to see "what if" comparisons, etc. Love it- a great help to reloaders everywhere! (THANKS, Wiljen). :coffeecom

I suspect that the lack of difference in the various wildcats based on the 223 Rem. or 5.56mm NATO cartridges are because of the case capacity issue. With that limiting factor, I would choose the larger secitonal density bullets (depending on my intended application).

Again, I like the sound of the 25 and 6.5 choices, but I think I will stick with the 6mm variation, just because there IS little difference between all of them. Work with what you have available for the time being. :smile:

[mpkunz]

They have "grenade" rounds, etc. for 12 ga. that can do that, and MORE. They probably wouldn't have wanted to add another link to the supply line for yours anyway. Best thing is you got the fun of build a toy for your retirement- like making your own pocket watch that they used to give everyone who "made it". :grin:

I'm currently planning my next one. It will be a two stamp gun. One for the can, the other for the round itself - 50bmg case straightened into about a 70 something caliber, whatever the dimensions work out to. That one will be spendy though because about the only standard things going into it are the cases and the shell holder for the reloading press. But I'm guestimating it will be about an 1800 grain bullet. Gotta sell off the contents of a gun cabinet to fund this project.

[David LaPell]

This is the only wildcat I load, the .41 Special. The .41 Magnum is on the left and its shorter brother the .41 Special is on the right. Just trim it down to the length of the .44 Special and you're good to go.

http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss57/Smith29-2/41special.jpg

[hansumtoad]

What would I do with a .300 Win Mag? Leave it alone and knock the fazzolies out of anything I wanted.

In 1986 was on a Safari in Zimbabwe when the opportunity came to crop a small herd of Cape Buffalo (they carry brucellosis and can't graze with cattle whose carcasses were being exported to Europe). Being buds with the PH, I got to shoot M'Bogo for a couple of days.

.300 Win Mag, Barnes original 250gr Solids, 78.5grs of 7828 over a Fed 215. Just devastating. Of course it was on our terms - none of the 20 yards in the Mopani thicket business - but except for one bull, one shot and one dead buff.

.300 Mags are about all a man needs.... notice I did not say 'want' and will never knock another man's caliber choice.

[midnight]

One of my wildcats isn't so wild. It's much like the 300 win mag. I had a Herters U9 (BSA Monarch) with a missing bolt. Couldn't find a 30-06 bolt but did find one with a magnum bolt face. I rechambered it to 30-338. Instant 300 Win Mag but cooler.
The other is a 219 Donaldson Wasp on a Martini action. That one will make you a better reloader cuz you have to perform almost every brass prep operation on it to make cases. Not too many Martini Wasps out there.

Bob

[MBTcustom]

I shoot a 300 winmag too. It is my favorite bolt gun. Useless with cast boolits but with J-words @ 3200 fps "that's with a 165 grain sierra boat." Its a dream. I killed a deer with it @ 300 yards last year, boolit dropped 6" and landed right in the heart. Now that's meat in the freezer! The rifle is a Remington 700 and it groups under an inch @ 200 yards:holysheep "not bad for a sporter barrel imho". Its my "if I can see it I can hit it" rifle. Affectionately named Winifred Magnus.:razz:

Now since this is about wildcats, I'm in the process of making a 35 territorian or 35/303 however you say it. I'm giving detailed build pictures and info on the "military rifles" area. So far I have re-barreled the action of an smle no4mark1, and glass bedded it too. I'm only waiting on the $$$ to rent the reamers.:violin:

[Charlie Sometimes]

I'm currently planning my next one. It will be a two stamp gun. One for the can, the other for the round itself - 50bmg case straightened into about a 70 something caliber, whatever the dimensions work out to. That one will be spendy though because about the only standard things going into it are the cases and the shell holder for the reloading press. But I'm guestimating it will be about an 1800 grain bullet. Gotta sell off the contents of a gun cabinet to fund this project.

Selling off the contents...........THAT is going a bit too far in my book! :veryconfu I know this hobby does strange things to people, but you are having negative side efffects! :dung_hits_fan: :kidding:

[mpkunz]

Selling off the contents...........THAT is going a bit too far in my book! :veryconfu I know this hobby does strange things to people, but you are having negative side efffects! :dung_hits_fan: :kidding:

Oh, no. Don't misunderstand. Its a cabinet full of stuff I haven't looked at in years, much less fired. The stuff I shoot, I shoot - its stays !

[44Vaquero]

Left to Right: .32/.38 Special, .400 Corbon, .357/.44 B&D

Unfortunately I could not locate my only sample of the most significant Wild Cat ever produced on my bench! The .357/.38 pleated! The result of 3 things happening in the right order 1st my 10 year daughter sorting and filling the case collator on the Load-Master, 2nd not checking her work, 3rd and most importantly forgetting the cardinal rule of progressive reloading "Never push harder when meeting resistance on the loading lever!". LOL Perfect fold all the way around just below the boolit!!

When it turns up I will add it.

[jmorris]

These took care of the rabbits eating Mothers flowers.


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/farm/bob.jpg

[Jack Stanley]

jmorris , now that's really showing us the wildcats !! [smilie=l:

Jack

[Arisaka99]

They are pretty!!!

[ASSASSIN]

My 243 WHITE EXPRESS -
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/243%20WHITE%20EXPRESS/053.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/243%20WHITE%20EXPRESS/021.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/243%20WHITE%20EXPRESS/028.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/243%20WHITE%20EXPRESS/029.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/243%20WHITE%20EXPRESS/036.jpg


This cartridge is based on the full length 444 Marlin case, necked down to 6mm, with minimum body taper and a 40 degree shoulder angle...

The gun shown weighs 29 lbs. and has a 30" barrel, 1.450" in diameter. The stock was factory weighted to ten pounds...

Accuracy wise, this gun will shoot 1/2" groups at 300 yds. and 1 1/2" or less at 600 yds...

Many deer and coyote have been "taken-out" with this gun:drinks:....

ASSASSIN

[JIMinPHX]

Since the coyotes were eradicated from my neighborhood, we've been seeing an increase in wild cats. This one is the newest addition to the pack.

[Arisaka99]

Assassin, thats as much a Barrett 50cal!!!

[Longwood]

My entry.

[ASSASSIN]

Assassin, thats as much a Barrett 50cal!!!

Yes Sir it is :bigsmyl2:....

ASSASSIN

[turbo1889]

Yah, heavy guns with heavy bull barrels are really nice to shoot. Not so nice to pack though.

For a gun you intend to do a lot of packing with a compromise between the two, namely a 16 to 18 inch short carbine length bull barrel to keep the heavy barrel but ease up on the weight a little is a good plan. I've got a custom 7x57 built like that and it’s a tack driver and is still fairly easy to pack around. With a solidly fixed hooded front blade and a Korean era M-1G type rear iron peep sight with the protector ridges on each side so it is very difficult if not impossible to knock the rear sight out of adjustment, no scope, a SS barrel, and the synthetic stock I don't have to baby her at all and can still trust her to shoot straight in a pinch.

For a gun that I wasn't going to carry far from the truck I'd go with that long heavy bull barrel with a scope too, but not for packing.

[ASSASSIN]

These targets were shot in March of this year - at 600 yds....
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/243%20WHITE%20EXPRESS/042.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/243%20WHITE%20EXPRESS/047.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/243%20WHITE%20EXPRESS/048.jpg


http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z132/HonkerHunter_photos/243%20WHITE%20EXPRESS/049.jpg

No, this rifle is not meant to be carried through the woods but, if you can drive to a field or open country land where you can see out to 1,000+ yds., a rifle like this will serve you well....

ASSASSIN

[Jack Stanley]

Now THAT is just awesome !!!!!:shock: With something like that around here , there wouldn't be a cut hayfield a woodchuck could hide in .

Jack

[Arisaka99]

That is some good shooting on your part as well!!

[MBTcustom]

.358 Malcolm. Based on the 303 british cartridge, it provides a middle of the road, rimmed cartridge between the 30-30 and the 45-70 with a highly improved profile. It beats the .358 winchester by a small margin.
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_0953.jpg
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_0847.jpg
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_0853.jpg
50 yard group with 200gr RCBS GC flat point.
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_0970.jpg

[Arisaka99]

Is that boolit PP goodsteel? Thats mighty fine shooting as well!!

[ASSASSIN]

Jack and Chris - Thank You...

A couple of things that I have learned over the years is to do all your load development at 200 yds. instead of 100 yds. and to set up the size die, full length or neck, to "float" in the press. This helps to keep the case in a more perfect alignment as it enters and exits the die. All of this may not make much difference if your shooting range will not exceed 300 yds. but, when you shoot out to 1,000+ yds.. it DOES make a lot of difference....

ASSASSIN

[only1asterisk]

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i97/only1asterisk/DSC03690.jpg

I'm thinking the one on the right will make a good boolit cartridge.

[MBTcustom]

Well heck yeah! That dog will hunt. Is that a 47/70? At any rate if you cut the neck off to about 3/8-1/2 inch, boy you talk about super-short-magnum! How did you do that anyway?

[turbo1889]

I'd lean towards the upper end of that cut off spectrum (1/2") for sure maybe even a smidgen more. Also I would prefer to do it on that fairly standard non-rimmed case head size that is used on the 308, 30-06, 270, 8x57, 7x57, 45-ACP, etc., etc., etc. rather then some less popular case head size especially a rimmed case head size (a rimmed or belted case head is a good design for revolvers but not much else in my opinion). Then you could make brass out of a whole range of different cartridges and bolt actions to accept the cartridge. Could be a nice little cast boolit cartridge.

Speaking of rimmed cartridges in revolvers. What about a low pressure revolver cartridge based off of the 7.62x54R as the parent cartridge blow out straight and cut down to 45-Colt case length only using a 0.458” boolit diameter. The idea being to have a second cylinder made to use such a cartridge in my BFR 45/70 revolver and just load them with 45-Colt load data using the slightly bigger boolit diameter to match up with the barrel that is dimensioned for 45/70 size boolits and make the cases from all my used up 7.62x54R brass that I have reloaded and annealed and reloaded and annealed until finally the necks have split despite my best attempts to prevent their ultimate demise. Loaded with collar button boolits and other lighter weight 45/70 type boolits I think it would be really sweat for plinking with that gun and use up a lot less powder and lead in the process compared to even bottom end 45-70 loads.

[Wayne Smith]

Turbo, rimmed cartridges shine in single shot rifles. Agreed, though them and lever actions are the right places for rimmed cartridges.

[only1asterisk]

I'd lean towards the upper end of that cut off spectrum (1/2") for sure maybe even a smidgen more. Also I would prefer to do it on that fairly standard non-rimmed case head size that is used on the 308, 30-06, 270, 8x57, 7x57, 45-ACP, etc., etc., etc. rather then some less popular case head size especially a rimmed case head size (a rimmed or belted case head is a good design for revolvers but not much else in my opinion). Then you could make brass out of a whole range of different cartridges and bolt actions to accept the cartridge. Could be a nice little cast boolit cartridge.

Speaking of rimmed cartridges in revolvers. What about a low pressure revolver cartridge based off of the 7.62x54R as the parent cartridge blow out straight and cut down to 45-Colt case length only using a 0.458” boolit diameter. The idea being to have a second cylinder made to use such a cartridge in my BFR 45/70 revolver and just load them with 45-Colt load data using the slightly bigger boolit diameter to match up with the barrel that is dimensioned for 45/70 size boolits and make the cases from all my used up 7.62x54R brass that I have reloaded and annealed and reloaded and annealed until finally the necks have split despite my best attempts to prevent their ultimate demise. Loaded with collar button boolits and other lighter weight 45/70 type boolits I think it would be really sweat for plinking with that gun and use up a lot less powder and lead in the process compared to even bottom end 45-70 loads.
Necking down that much introduces lots of neck thickness variation when you try to use different brass. Better to pick one and stick to it. The case pictured is a 375 Win, but I have dies for 30-06 casehead. I'd be happy to make up sample case for you.

Also, .458 bullets can be loaded standard .45 Colt cases and will often chamber in factory guns. Depending on how much clearence all you may need to do is have the throats opened up.

[gzig5]

My 243 WHITE EXPRESS -

This cartridge is based on the full length 444 Marlin case, necked down to 6mm, with minimum body taper and a 40 degree shoulder angle...

The gun shown weighs 29 lbs. and has a 30" barrel, 1.450" in diameter. The stock was factory weighted to ten pounds...

Accuracy wise, this gun will shoot 1/2" groups at 300 yds. and 1 1/2" or less at 600 yds...

Many deer and coyote have been "taken-out" with this gun:drinks:....

ASSASSIN

What powder charge and velocity are you running with those 85gr Sierra's?

Curious as to how the action/barrel are bedded. That's a hell of a lot of weight hanging off the action. How much of the barrel is bedded?

[Calamity Jake]

Here's mine


http://photos.gunloads.com/images/CalamityJake/535gr45acp1024x768.jpg

Takes a special deeeeeeeep throated barrel for this one!!!!!

:castmine: :mrgreen: :twisted:

[Arisaka99]

I'm surprised that don't blow up a gun, Jake...

[greywuuf]

Turbo.... your 357 LNAM in post #147... I am contemplating a build Very similar if not identical to this, only I am chambering it in an ar 15. I may end up giving up some of the neck though in search of case capacity as I am intending it to be a .358 version of the spectre..... it will be easier to short chamber so that the should is at standard SIG dimensions and then if testing indicates I need more room.. reaming it a little more at a time.

if you are interested i will post some more details as I create them ;-)

[greywuuf]

Ahh correction, I wont be going that short, i will be starting with 10mm Magnum cases.

[Dannix]

Ahh correction, I wont be going that short, i will be starting with 10mm Magnum cases.
That makes more sense.


if you are interested i will post some more details as I create them ;-)
Please do post details. I know I would be interested. :mrgreen:

The Special Projects (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17) subforum is the place to start a thread for your build.

[pmer]

I didn't read this whole thread but has anyone necked up a 458 Win Mag to 475? It looks like there is enough taper to do it.

Maybe it could shoot pistol boolits and on up to 600 grains or so?

[redneckdan]

that would be a .470 capstick-short, of sorts.

[pmer]

that would be a .470 capstick-short, of sorts.

Thanks for the info, I Wikied the Capstick and see it uses a full length H&H case.

I can't figure out why I'm interested in this - maybe if I wait long enough the urge will go away. LOL I even stopped to see if there were any beat up looking Winchester Mags at my gun shop but no luck.

[Hamish]

Bump, looking for an update on the 8mm Carbine.

[Harry O]

I have a 30-40 Krag that is necked down to 7mm. The shoulder is moved forward and it is fireformed to have almost straight sides. It is chambered in a Ruger No. 3 that started out in 30-40 Krag. The internal volume is almost exactly the same as a .280 Remington Ackley Improved.

I also have a couple of cartridges that are not exactly wildcats, but they are (or were) almost impossible to get brass for, so I formed my own. The first one is the 41 Long Colt. I made cases out of .38 Special brass until Starline started making them. The other is the 9.5x57 Mannlicher-Schoenauer. I could use just about any 8mm Mauser or 30-06 parent case, but I have settled on .35 Whelen cases for several reasons.

[revolvergeek]

So NoZombies, whatever ended up happening with your 22/32 project?

[junkman1967]

I'll have to post a pic of mine when I get home. One is the "429 Ultra Express" made from a shortened .308, and the other is a 9mm long rifle, made from a cut down and necked up 223. Pics soon :-)

[NoZombies]

So NoZombies, whatever ended up happening with your 22/32 project?

Not as much as I would like. I ended up with a lot less 'spare' time on my hands, and as a result, many projects have been postponed!

[MOcaster]

8217282173
Neither are official or have guns but the first one is a 400 SOCOM/400 Miles/400 M&M. I haven't decided on the name yet. The second one is a 9mm-458 SOCOM. Both are necked down 458 SOCOMs. My play cartridge for the 400 had a 300ish grain bullet in it if I remember correctly. I made it with BTsniper's swaging die and a 38 special brass. The 9mm won't be a cast cartridge but all I had were cast 9s.
(Sorry for the sideways pictures)

[rking22]

Well ,if I can figure out the picture thing I will post my 30 Special.. Yeah another 38 special necked to 30 ,I wanted a 300 Sherwood equilivent . Put it on a TCR 83. Any more updates on the other versions of this thought ?

[SCHUETZENBOOMER]

My GP series of cartridges all based on the 8x57 case. L to R are 6mmGP, 250GP, 6.5mmGP, 270GP, 7mmGP, 300GP, 8mmGP, 330GP, 350GP and 375GP. Anyone interested in an Excel spreadsheet of chrono date please PM me. Just now working up loads for the .350GP and cast...which is why the cast boolits are shown in front of the .350GP. To date, I have built several rifles in all but the 270, 7mm and 300cals. I am having a ball with the .350GP and cast!

[Whiterabbit]

dumb question. for new cartridges and wildcatting, why ARE necks getting shorter? is there a distinct disadvantage to a long neck?

All I can figure is jacketed bullets don't need it and it eats into usable case capacity. Yes? Is there any other reason?

For example, if I am mulling over a wildcat, and I find I don't need lots of case capacity, length is covered, do I have any disadvantage to designing in a ridiculously long neck?

[Doc_Stihl]

I'll gather up some examples for some pictures but here's my current list:

.14 Eichelberger Flea - 32 ACP necked to .14 caliber. I can form .17 and .22 versions of this as well.
22 Cheetah Mark 1 - 308 BR case necked to .22 with little taper and a 40 degree shoulder
6mm Page Souper Pooper
6.5 U.F.O. - A 6.5 based on a .243 lapua case by Wes Ugalde. As far as I know I own the only set of dies ever made.
270 REN - 22 Hornet straight walled to .277
7x30 JDJ - Jones's take on the 7-30 waters improved
30 Merrill
338-08 AI 40

[Jacko.357]

35.303 I gave up on the 225 gr Sierra Projectiles, very accurate but too expensive. The Cast Bullet is a Cast Bullet Engineering 358250. Cast from straight wheel weights, air cooled, Lubed with White Label 2700+, Gator Checks comes in at 260 grains, sized to .359, 38 grains of ADI 2206 for 1885 fps. Plenty of scope for more velocity but it shoots so well and hits so hard I see no point Shot in a customised No1 M3 Lithgow. If I do my part this Rifle and Cartridge is a genuine 5 shot MOA outfit

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff55/jackoarcher/CBE250225grGameking.jpg (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/jackoarcher/media/CBE250225grGameking.jpg.html)

I am thinking very seriously of having a Baikal IZH18 7.62X39 rechambered to 310PPC. Why ? Cause I can and one Wildcat is never enough

regards Jacko

[rattletrap1970]

I'd like to see a .25 auto necked to .22. Why? Cause it's neat. And I'd love to make it behave like a .22lr for an improvised 50 ft .22 indoor gallery match... Screw the unavailability and cost of .22 lr.

[Whiterabbit]

7mm whiterabbit

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86134&d=1383374228

A guy can dream, for now. A guy can dream.

[hubel458]

585 HE (Hubel Express) After a while it may not be a wildcat.

87213


A long straight belted 585 case- rim .654"- belt .654- base .634"--

mouth .607"-- case 3.26" long--rim can be rebated if wanted.Ed

[texassako]

I figured I would add mine to this list. A different .30-40 Improved than Ackley's. Holds a grain more water than my PPU 7.62x54r cases with Winchester brass. It still fireformed well Ackley style with a loaded round. I am also messing around with something like the .22 TCM in .25 caliber to feed through the magazine of a rebarreled Destroyer carbine.

87217

[redneckdan]

dumb question. for new cartridges and wildcatting, why ARE necks getting shorter? is there a distinct disadvantage to a long neck?

All I can figure is jacketed bullets don't need it and it eats into usable case capacity. Yes? Is there any other reason?

For example, if I am mulling over a wildcat, and I find I don't need lots of case capacity, length is covered, do I have any disadvantage to designing in a ridiculously long neck?

The necks are shorter in an effort to squeak out every last bit of powder capacity possible. There is a theory based in the intersection point of the case shoulder falling within the neck, leading to increased throat life due to the brass taking most of the beating from powder gases. Longer necks are beneficial to us because they allow more bullet seated into the case without dropping the gas check below the neck. A longer neck also helps maintain bullet alignment, if you seat the damn thing straight to begin with.

[Whiterabbit]

well, glad I added a longer neck in my design then. I linked a pic above. I will try making it whenever a 7TCU die set falls into my lap I can cut down.

[Whiterabbit]

got a chance to play. My 7mm wildcat, next to the 223 parent.

[Whiterabbit]

OK, did some measuring and tweaking, the necks were WAY too long. This is the read deal, all trimmed up and pretty-like:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89917&d=1386488354

[thehouseproduct]

OK, did some measuring and tweaking, the necks were WAY too long. This is the read deal, all trimmed up and pretty-like:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89917&d=1386488354

Is this something akin to a 7mm TCU that would fit in AR mags?

[Whiterabbit]

yeah. Like a 7mm TCU short with a long neck for heavy cast in an AR, or like a long necked 300 blk necked to 7mm

[W.R.Buchanan]

Here's the only wildcat I have.

Randy

[Whiterabbit]

domesticated, and SMUG. SMUG! Methinks he is momma's cat.

small caliber. pinhole bullet tips, 5 round mags, contains 4 of them. but can fire all 20 at once, particularly if he is relaxing on your lap and sees something exciting he needs to chase down. also contains two dull bayonets, not afraid to use them constantly.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Whiterabbit: yes he is Mommies cat, and he is all love.

Protects Mom when she is outside gardening. Very serious about that job.

His name is Feeps, and he's a 20 pounder. . Been known to burn out if scared.

Not much of a hunter, more of a lover.

Very fast.

Randy

[Zaweri]

7mm whiterabbit

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86134&d=1383374228

A guy can dream, for now. A guy can dream.

Hey, what is that program? I am designing a wildcat cartridge, and I specifically created a forum account to ask this question.

[Whiterabbit]

Hey, what is that program? I am designing a wildcat cartridge, and I specifically created a forum account to ask this question.

Howdy Zaweri,

http://ammoguide.com/runcreator.html

Doesn't even run on your computer, all online. Very convenient. No cost (free)

[Zaweri]

Howdy Zaweri,

http://ammoguide.com/runcreator.html

Doesn't even run on your computer, all online. Very convenient. No cost (free)

Thank you! It's a huge help!

[Ratau]

I love all your wildcats,especially the little ones.

[IndySteve]

Howdy Zaweri,

http://ammoguide.com/runcreator.html

Doesn't even run on your computer, all online. Very convenient. No cost (free)

Is this working for others?

Since "unsigned" I had to change my Active X to prompt me to download an unsigned program and the prompt comes up..........I click "ok".........and nothing happens.

I sent them email. Other links there do not work either.
God Bless

[IndySteve]

[QUOTE=Whiterabbit;2440885]dumb question. for new cartridges and wildcatting, why ARE necks getting shorter? is there a distinct disadvantage to a long neck?

All I can figure is jacketed bullets don't need it and it eats into usable case capacity. Yes? Is there any other reason?"



The only advantage I see to a shorter neck is net case capacity gain, and not tons of that but it is in the picture for the one I'm working on. I see no other advantage unless you live in Indiana and join in with the guys taking 35 Rem and shortening the brass to Indiana legal 1.8 inches. TALK ABOUT A SHORT NECK. (NO other changes)

The 375 ruger and 375 Weatherby (not the 378 but the older 375) both have neck lengths less than caliber at around .305-.310.

That said, neck turning is a little more common these days as are collet dies and both of which give the shooter more uniform, and IMHO, more consistent neck brass to bullet contact and a short neck seems to work fine, within limits.
God Bless