A Troublesome Webley To Load For!

[klcarroll]

I have been loading a duplication load for the British 38/200 for a while now, and I have had generally good results: ……Up ‘til now.

I recently acquired a nice little .38 Webley with a four inch barrel. It’s a nicely balanced little gun, in excellent condition, and it locks up like a Smith & Wesson. The problem is that it seems to be much more tightly chambered than the other Webleys I have run across.

My standard load features a 200 grain round-nose boolit, sized to .363”. I use Starline brass with a .011” wall thickness at the mouth.

Using 9mm Mak dies, I am able to produce a round that measures .385”-.386” just south of the crimp: …..And I have always figured that that dim was about as close to perfect as possible.

In spite of all the effort I put into the round dimensions, ….whenever there is even the slightest flaw in the crimp, or even the most minute “bulge”, …..the round won’t chamber in this little Webley.

I measured the chambers ½” up from the extractor star, and they are all in the .388” - .390” range. The chamber throats all measure in the .361” - .362” range, and the bore slugs at .362”.

I don’t want to go to a smaller boolit diameter, because I want accuracy out of this fellow: …..What do you guys think? ……Is it time for me to see about having the chambers reamed a few thousands larger????

Kent

[robertbank]

Where is it hanging up. On the bullet or the case? You likely know that in order to get decent accurcy out of a revolver your throats have to be at least equal to or slightly greater than bore and with lead bullets equal or slightly larget in diameter than the bullet. Have you tried just pusing a one of your bullets through the throats of your cylinders?

Take Care

Bob

[klcarroll]

The failure to chamber is definately a case issue. The boolit by itself will fall most of the way through the cylinder, resulting in about 1/4" of the nose protruding out the front. After that, the boolit can be pushed the rest of the way through with a dowel and "moderate to heavy" hand pressure.

In pondering this problem, another thought has come to mind: .....I have never actually owned an original piece of 38/200 military brass; .....Do you think it's possible that the original cases had walls that were THINNER than .011"????

Does anyone out there have a piece of genuine 38/200 that they could measure for me????

Kent

[robertbank]

The failure to chamber is definately a case issue. The boolit by itself will fall most of the way through the cylinder, resulting in about 1/4" of the nose protruding out the front. After that, the boolit can be pushed the rest of the way through with a dowel and "moderate to heavy" hand pressure.

In pondering this problem, another thought has come to mind: .....I have never actually owned an original piece of 38/200 military brass; .....Do you think it's possible that the original cases had walls that were THINNER than .011"????

Does anyone out there have a piece of genuine 38/200 that they could measure for me????

Kent
Based upon what you have said I would say you need to get at least a .38 S&W resizing die. What you are using isn't sizing the cases down enough. When I was reloading for mine before I sold the gun I would not have described the cylinders as being tight. Are you removing the belling from the case mouth? The case she feel smooth as you run your finger over teh case and over the case mouth to the bullet.

I shot a lot of unsized .358 bullets cast from WW and 50%WW/50%lead alloy with decent results.

Take Care

Bob

[klcarroll]

Well................., I do have a RCBS 38 S&W resizing die: It was my experiences with THAT die that prompted me to buy the Makarov die set.

That RCBS die appears to be configured to produce a sized case that is compatible with .357" diameter projectiles: ....That's FIVE thousandths smaller than my bore size! .....Everything I have read on this site advocates AT LEAST matching the bore size, if not going .001" over.

When I take one of those RCBS sized cases and try to seat a properly sized boolit, I end up with a cartridge that shows more external rolls and ripples than ME in a spandex suit!

Kent

[robertbank]

I am talking about .38 S&W dies not .38spl. Are we on the same page?

Take care

Bob

[klcarroll]

I am talking about .38 S&W dies not .38spl. Are we on the same page?

Take care

Bob

Yes, ........we are.

The RCBS die I have was specifically ordered for .38 S&W and 38/200 British. The thing I find so frustrating about that die is that it sizes most of the case correctly, ....but then produces a distinctly under-sized band at the case mouth that is about .200" long. The case I.D. under that band is .349", which means that it needs some serious reworking from the expander plug.

I have NO idea what the RCBS Design Engineers were thinking when they designed THAT die!

......But then again, some of my other conversations on these forums seem to indicate that no one else is making a correctly sized die set for .38 S&W either!

The idea of using a 9mm Mak die set came from these forums, and that approach has worked beautifully for me up 'til now: ......Then THIS tight little honey came along.

Kent

[robertbank]

Ummm. I asume you are belling them ok. A bulge in the case is ok and shouldn't present a problem in reloading the cases. I would really be surprised if the cylinders are tight on the gun especially since the throats appear to be ok. Try going back to the RCBS dies and see if teh rounds will load ok even with the bulge. If they do then just go that route. The cses, even if they do look wrinkled won't or shouldn't effect accuracy.

Good Luck

Bob

[NoZombies]

You might try getting a 9mm Mak FCD from lee. the FCD will iron out the bulge bellow the bullet.

[Wayne Smith]

Before you change the gun talk to the folks at Lee. They will make a custom FCD that will fit your cylinders if you give them the information.

[9.3X62AL]

That RCBS sizing die is WRONG. The "belt" you describe is the result of a die defect.

I use either a Makarov T/C sizer (for S&W and Webley-Enfield revos with .363" throats) or an RCBS steel Cowboy sizer die for the Colt PP with .359" throats. That said, the steel 38 S&W sizer can produce very usable cases for the larger-spec revolvers, just use a .361" expander spud--like that found in the Makarov die set.

I haven't read definitive answer to the question "Where EXACTLY is the cartridge hanging up?" Load a dummy round (casing and bullet only)--smoke the round's exterior--and find out FOR SURE where the problem is by trying the smoked dummy round and seeing where the smoking is disturbed.

[klcarroll]

@9.3X62AL

I am basically following your procedure; ……Using both the Sizer and the Expander Plug from the 9mm Mak die set. I use the absolute minimum “flare” required to get a .363” diameter boolit to start.

When everything goes perfectly, I end up with a round that measures somewhere between .385” and .386”. (…..And the math on that “checks”! …A .363” boolit and two .011” thicknesses of brass.)

…..And since the chambers on this guy Mic out at .388” to .390”, you can see that I have precious little clearance there!

The point where the round “hangs” varies:

If the round is perfect, it slides in like a piston. (…..If I hold my finger over the other end of the cylinder, and close off the escape path for the air, the round won’t drop!! ….It will bounce up and down like an Air-Spring when pushed!)

If there is ANY sort of minor flaw with the crimp, …or if the heel of the boolit causes ANY sort of miniscule bulge, the round will bind at that point.

I have been using this setup (dies, brass, and boolit diameter) for a while now, and it works in all the other Webleys I load for: ……..But, all of the other Webleys I have checked have chambers that are .002” to .004” larger than the ones in this particular weapon.

Kent