Pistol caliber AR's anyone???

[Russel Nash]

Hi all!

I was just wondering if any of you guys have a pistol caliber AR.

I would like to get one, one of these days and/or build one. I still have a new in the wrapper AR upper that I would like to build on.

just recently I was on the Olympic Arms website and noticed that they have their own polymer magazines that on the inside will take 9mm, .40S&W, 10mm, or .45 ACP, but the outside has the dimensions of a regular AR15 magazine.

I went to AR15.com once to read up on pistol caliber AR's and I was absolutely overwhelmed withj all the choices you have to make....Hahn mag block??? Uzi vs. Sten mags....ramped bolt carrier groups vs. unramped and special hammers.

Jeesh!!

So if you do have a pistol caliber AR carbine I'd like to hear how you did it or put it together.

I'd also be curious if you cast boolits and reload for it...if so, what is the performance like?

do you get leading in the barrel?

Thanks!

[arjacobson]

I am REALLY wanting to buy one in .45acp..I already have a camp carbine in that caliber along with all my other 45's but I could USE another!!!!:bigsmyl2:

[nicholst55]

I traded into an Oly Arms 9mm upper several years ago, and while I haven't fired it extensively (around 500 rounds), I like it so far. It is a drop-in conversion for a 5.56mm AR, unlike the Colt style conversions. You don't have to change out buffers, hammers, ramp bolt carriers, or anything else. Mine uses Sten mags (with a mag block), which are generally pretty inexpensive - although a PITA to load!

I imagine Oly sells the component parts, but you'll need to have a hole drilled in your upper receiver for the ejector pin. Adco (http://adcofirearms.com/shopservices/shop_.cfm?code=5)offers that service for a reasonable price.

[Gunsmoke4570]

I have an Olympic in 9mm. I use the adapter block so I can use surplus Sten mags. Pretty accurate and reliable. I've used both jacketed and cast bullets in it.

[crabo]

I also have the Olympic. I have both the block and Sten magazines, plus their clear mag. I hardly ever shoot it, but it is accurate and functions well. I have not tried any cast with it.

[Intel6]

I have one in .45 ACP. I got one of the grease gun magazine lowers from thompson machine and then built an upper using an Oly barrel and bolt.

I only shoot cast bullets that I cast myself in it and have no issues with leading at all. I mainly shoot a 200 SWC and I also shoot a 230 TC lead bullet both cast in Lee 6 cavity moulds.

Sorry, no pics on my work computer so I can't post any right now.

[madsenshooter]

Check out the Castboolits AR 15 upper thread in the group buy discussion.

[Russel Nash]

well....I did try to throw my 2 cents in on that group buy AR upper thread, but I think I was outnumbered by all the guys who wanted custom rifle caliber or engraved uppers.

me?

what I think would be cool is:

1. flattop upper

2. sidecharging handle (get rid of the rear charging handle and the milled hole and groove it rides in)

3. some sort of lower and/or dedicated mag system where I wouldn't need something like a Hahn mag block.

[crabo]

Something like this?

[mtnman31]

I'd like to get one myself. I am still trying to decide between 7.62x25 Tokarev and .45 ACP.

[badge176]

I have an Oly upper in .40S&W that I run with Sten mags and a mag block adapter, I put together a lower to go with a 9mm Oly upper for my father-in-law and he uses Sten mags with an Oly style square tube welded to them, and lastly I have a .50AE upper that runs on heavily modified IMI Orlite mags. The two Olys are sweet to say the least but I'm looking to switch out the A1 upper rec from the .50AE to a flat top as whoever built it welded the FSBase on and at a slight can't!!! I cannot get it sighted in with the available windage in the rear sight so it'll get "fixed" this spring- she thumps like a heavy 20g in a light weight shotgun- not unpleasant but memorable

[Russel Nash]

Something like this?

A'yup, something just like that.

What is the barrel length on that?

It is kinda deceiving with that short forearm on there.

Yeah, I would imagine that a .50AE would thump a bit.

Me? Personally? I don't want to go with something to exotic. I already have 5 gallon buckets full of 9, .40 and .45 brass plus all the molds to go with them.

[82nd airborne]

well....I did try to throw my 2 cents in on that group buy AR upper thread, but I think I was outnumbered by all the guys who wanted custom rifle caliber or engraved uppers.

me?

what I think would be cool is:

1. flattop upper

2. sidecharging handle (get rid of the rear charging handle and the milled hole and groove it rides in)

3. some sort of lower and/or dedicated mag system where I wouldn't need something like a Hahn mag block.

Im still working on a .45 acp AR15 upper that is side charge and has a folding stock Russell, I didnt forget about you!
I just havent got to work on it as much as I would like lately, due to being backogged.

[Russel Nash]

Cool!

[smilie=w:

Thanks!

[crabo]

A'yup, something just like that.

What is the barrel length on that?

It is kinda deceiving with that short forearm on there.

Yeah, I would imagine that a .50AE would thump a bit.

Me? Personally? I don't want to go with something to exotic. I already have 5 gallon buckets full of 9, .40 and .45 brass plus all the molds to go with them.

16" I put on the accesory rails from Brownells to hold fore ends and flashlights.

[82nd airborne]

Ive also done 9mm blowbacks, and ther is a picture of a deer a little girl killed with a 10mm upper of mine over in the Hunting with CB section.
I was running 180g boolits at 1500fps out of a 16" barrel. Made for a pretty fun gun, but mags are a pain for 10mm.

[Intel6]

here is a pic of my Cav Arms based .45 ACP carbine before I got the dedicated grease gun mag lower. I found a tan lower so I got the handguards to match.

[Russel Nash]

I'm thinking that maybe now would be a good time to stock up on those 33 round Glock mags if I want to go with a dedicated AR lower that accepts Glock mags.

[Moonie]

I'm thinking that maybe now would be a good time to stock up on those 33 round Glock mags if I want to go with a dedicated AR lower that accepts Glock mags.

Good plan...

[Grapeshot]

I am REALLY wanting to buy one in .45acp..I already have a camp carbine in that caliber along with all my other 45's but I could USE another!!!!:bigsmyl2:

I really wanted one in .45 Winchester Magnum. That would be a rocking boar buster.

A friend of mine built one in .50 Action Express that was quite the attention getter.

[redneck rampage]

I built a oly 45acp AR pistol 10" barrel. It will shoot anything I put in it, likes 230 cast TC the best. The only draw back is mags, Only has a new mag out that seams to work good.

[82nd airborne]

.45 NUT, or .450 Bushmaster

[arjacobson]

would it be a huge problem to build me a 45acp upper?? I am looking to be able to just swap uppers. Probably 223 and 45acp.. Down the road would be a 7.62x25 upper. Can all these calibers swap to the same lower?? I have had ar's in the past but have never built one and am not quite clear on which calibers will work....

[82nd airborne]

The only problem with the .45 is that I am still having to do alot of R&D to get it where I am happy selling it. Im not sure how long that will take. .45 is also hard to get to work in the standard lower, unless you take alot of time to modify grease gun mags. However, there is a guy that makes .45 acp specific lowers that take unmodified grease gun mags.
The upper I am working on is compact, with the buffer spring under the handgaurd so that you can use a folding stock on it, and not need a buffer tube. I think It will be a hot seller once I can get the R&D done though. For now, .45 NUT is good, and 9mm uppers are easy to get.
Sorry, I know that isnt the answer you were looking for!
Aaron

[2wheelDuke]

I've been wanting an AR in 10mm or 10mm mag for a while now. .45 would be fun, but I don't know that I'd have any practical use for it at all.

[fireball168]

Bazooka Brothers or Cavalry Arms for M3 Grease Gun compatible lower receivers.

If running a blowback 45 ACP/10mm upper (Olympic), you'll want a buffer at 7.5+ ounces. Some scrap brass I had laying around turned out at 7.7 ounces and has worked like a charm for me.

Ron Williams figured out how to make the 45 ACP, 7.62x25 and even 9mm run gas operated in these AR uppers. He figured it out how to make it work and does a great job with them.

If you are wanting to run a "standard" lower, look at the PPSh magazines - or quite simply, talk to Ron. He is "the man".

The upper receivers advertised on Bazooka Brothers website are the ones built by Ron.

[82nd airborne]

I have done gas op in the .45 with a 2" long gas system, but blowback seems to be better suited. However, if you plan on running a suppressor, the gas op .45 is pretty effective due to the back pressure generated by the can. You can also load it alot stiffer in the ar, due to the locking system to make it more reliable, but then you run the risk of mixing ammo with your handgun. You can use a standard pistol length gas system on the 7.62x25 and a .116" port and it works like a charm.

You can also make a gas op .45 acp upper and still have a folding stock. Ream the chamber slightly longer, then make brass from .30-06 to match. It will still shoot standard 45 ACP loads, but you can make some really hot .45's from the 06 brass and you cant fit them in your pistol because the slide will not lock into battery due to the length. Ill have to check out bazooka brothers, I havent heard of them untill now.What is the name of his website fireball?

[82nd airborne]

Nevermind, found them!

[thehouseproduct]

I also have an Olympic 9mm. Flattop, A2 front sight, Spikes billet carbine handguard. Really fun but I'm ready to sell it and move onto the next caliber. I have the upper and a bunch of mags for sale, PM if you are interested.

[redneck rampage]

I would like to try building a 460 Rowland. You can run standard 45acp in the gun but when you what to really hit hard you load up some 460 Rowland with almost twice the power.

[82nd airborne]

Thats kind of what Im going at with the .45 from 06 but I kind of like having a few thousandths extra for safety, so as not to load them in a pistol.

[redneck rampage]

The 460 is 1/16 longer case then the 45acp the COL is the same. So you can not load a 460 in a 45acp pistol.

[82nd airborne]

Ok, cool, I was pretty much going about it the hardest way possible then! I havent ever really looked into the rowland. Sounds like a bucket full of win though!
Man I am a goober.

[arjacobson]

The only problem with the .45 is that I am still having to do alot of R&D to get it where I am happy selling it. Im not sure how long that will take. .45 is also hard to get to work in the standard lower, unless you take alot of time to modify grease gun mags. However, there is a guy that makes .45 acp specific lowers that take unmodified grease gun mags.
The upper I am working on is compact, with the buffer spring under the handgaurd so that you can use a folding stock on it, and not need a buffer tube. I think It will be a hot seller once I can get the R&D done though. For now, .45 NUT is good, and 9mm uppers are easy to get.
Sorry, I know that isnt the answer you were looking for!
Aaron

No thats exactly what I was looking for... Thanks much for the info!! When you get the 45 upper figured out let me know. I have been wanting one for quite some time...

[Russel Nash]

arjacobson wrote:


ould it be a huge problem to build me a 45acp uppe ooking to be able to just swap uppers. Probably 223 a Down the road would be a 7.62x25 upper. Can all thes swap to the same lower?? I have had ar's in the past b never built one and am not quite clear on which cal

the easiest way to go would be with an Olympic Arms upper and their polymer mags. those mags are dimensionally on the outside the same as any ol' AR15 mag, but on the inside it will take .45ACP rounds .

you would probably be better off calling up Olympic Arms just to double check if your AR would need a special hammer or a buffer.

[Russel Nash]

slight thread drift ahead...

I am just now dabbling in open division of USPSA/IPSC. my pistola is chambered in 9mm Major. which is plain old 9mm Para/Luger but loaded up to push a 124 grain CMJ bullet to 1,300 to 1,400 fps. I'll be using a slow burning powder like Ramshot Silhouette or HS6. a slow powder produces more gas which works the open pistol's compensator better.

anywhoo...that would be interesting to to fire some 9mm Major rounds through a 16 inch barreled AR just to see if the longer barrel yields a higher velocity.

in a way, it would be cool to have the op-rod and springs under the handguard because then the gas block could be tune-able....for supercharged loads like 9mm Major you could dial down the gas going to bolt and chamber. then for regular bunny fart loads you could open up the gas so it does actually cycles the bolt reliably.

[Russel Nash]

sorry, Aaron....I don't mean to steal any work or sales from you.

Ya know that saying "necessity is the mother of invention"???

I have heard it said that " conveinience " is the father.

just look at how much bottled water is sold....because it is conveinient.

so that was my point about the Olympic Arms upper with their polymer mags. in theory it would really conveinient to just pull a couple of pins, slap on the .45ACP upper and use their mags....instead of having to fiddle around with a mag block or having to convert over Uzi or grease gun mags.

and just do the reverse and in a few minutes be back to shooting .223

by the way, I am in this process of trimming down my .223 brass ...hopefully...just once because I am using the RCBS X sizer die....but MAN!! does trimming this much brass SUCK!

it is just an ammo can's worth. I reckon about 700 pieces.

I have a Dillon 650 with a casefeeder and I am half tempted to buy Dillon's 1200 press mounted trimmer. but their trimmer is about $240 plus about another $40 for their caliber specif dies to go with it.

again, conveinience/speed sells.

[82nd airborne]

Theres plenty of room for everyone in this industry Russel! I wouldnt want to wait either.
Aaron

[82nd airborne]

Russell, At the bottom of my homepage there are some links. One is for Brads warehouse, he may be able to help you out with your brass.

[Intel6]

I was finally able to get some pics of my .45 ACP AR in it's new configuration with a dedicated metal lower and changed handguard and sights. I need to throw a red dot on it but for now the BUIS do fine.

[82nd airborne]

That is very very nice.

[klcarroll]

I hope the crowd here will entertain a few comments and a question or two from “The Cheap Seats”:

I have built two AR15s in 5.56mm, and both are “Frankenguns”. (….You know, weapons assembled from bits and pieces of dead “donor” rifles.) In terms of total cost, I have MAYBE $450 in each of these weapons; ….Which makes them the sort of fun “beaters” that I can use without babying.

I have wanted an AR in .45 ACP (…and .40 S&W) for several years now. I wanted the parts availability, ergonomics, and the good trigger pull that comes with the AR platform: ….But I was always stopped dead by the price tag. It just seems wrong to pay more for a pistol upper than I can buy a new Beretta Storm Carbine for. (Particularly when I already have many of the required parts in my “Biz Bin”, ….and have a shop equipped with both a lathe and a mill.)

Has this whole “Pistol Caliber Carbine Thing” gotten to the point yet where a relatively experienced fellow can buy the minimum parts required (a bolt assembly, a barrel, and a magazine) and do the rest of the job himself???

(BTW: I want a straight blow-back configuration, because I will probably feed this thing a diet consisting of ONLY cast boolits; …..And I have to think that gas tubes and lead boolits probably won’t play well together!)

Any advice will be very welcome!



Kent

[82nd airborne]

Lead boolits and gas tubes get along fine, but that is one reason why we are doing business, It disgusted me how some companies charge rediculous amounts for something because they think they have a cool logo.

[klcarroll]

Lead boolits and gas tubes get along fine, but that is one reason why we are doing business, It disgusted me how some companies charge rediculous amounts for something because they think they have a cool logo.

Well, .....That's a really refreshing attitude!!:redneck:

Once I get my budget back in order after the damage inflicted by Christmas, .....can I buy a barrel and bolt from you?


Kent

[82nd airborne]

yessir, you may. Cast boolit forum members get free shipping.

[fireball168]

Has this whole “Pistol Caliber Carbine Thing” gotten to the point yet where a relatively experienced fellow can buy the minimum parts required (a bolt assembly, a barrel, and a magazine) and do the rest of the job himself???

(BTW: I want a straight blow-back configuration.....

Don't forget about the ejector modification to the upper if you are going to use an Olympic(ish) blowback style.

Somewhere around here I've got a print on hole location, the ejector kits(pin and spring) run +/- $12 from Olympic.

[klcarroll]

Don't forget about the ejector modification to the upper if you are going to use an Olympic(ish) blowback style.

Somewhere around here I've got a print on hole location, the ejector kits(pin and spring) run +/- $12 from Olympic.


Yeah .......I've seen pictures of the "Olympic Style" ejector setup: .....It always looked kinda flimsy to me.

How does it hold up in real life??? (....say, over the course of 2,500 rounds.)

Kent

[fireball168]

I've yet to replace one/any - I can't begin to guess how many rounds have been through mine.

[thehouseproduct]

I've yet to replace one/any - I can't begin to guess how many rounds have been through mine.
Same with mine. Haven't put a 9mm round in the rifle that hasn't worked yet. Jacketed, cast, HP, subsonic, etc.