Star Sizer Issues (what a surprise).....

[FISH4BUGS]

OK....there are only 3 things that this thing needs to work: depth, heat and pressure.
Depth is fine. H&G 51 has a lube groove the size of the Panama Canal. I have that one figured out.
Heat - I have adjusted it up and down in tiny increments and can't seem to find the right setting. I have a Midway heated base that has been used very little. Magma Red lube.
Pressure - I have to crank the handle every two bullets - about a quarter turn (maybe a bit less) per two bullets.
Lubing seems to work.....for two bullets. Push another one through and just get three little glops of lube in the groove. Then I turn the crank a quarter turn or less and it works for another two bullets.....and on and on.
OK....up the heat a bit....maybe I can do a bit better with a little more heat. I wait 20 minutes. Try again. Still does about every three bullets for the crank now. NOW the lube is glopping out of the sizer die and the spring pump jobbie on the bottom.
OK....too hot.....cut back a bit....wait 20 minutes.....try again....back to the 2 bullet cranking rountine. Does a good job except for the third bullet needs the crank turned.
HERE IS THE QUESTION: Am I expecting too much here? Is two buillets before turning the crank normal and customary with the Star sizer and Magma Red lube?
If so I will just shut up and contemplate an air feed mechanism.
If not, please tell me what I am doing wrong. These pieces of equipment are almost new.
Help and advice is appreciated.

[sagamore-one]

My first thought is that maybe you are not making a complete "stroke" when you push the boolit through. The lube pump is actuated at the very end of the stroke.
That would be my first question. Are you making a complete stroke so that the lube pump is actually moving a full amount?

[casterofboolits]

I have the same H&G #51 in a ten cavity and use Magma lube, I get 20 to 30 boolits between lube pressure adjustments.

Looks like you have a heat problem, not quite enough. I put my heater base on a dimmer switch to control the heat better. Just a few degrees up or down can drive you nuts, but once you hit the sweet spot, you'll be rolling in clover!.

[Roundnoser]

First, as you know if the lube is running out all over the place, it is too hot. Your original working temperature sounds better.

I size 45 SWCs with a big lube groove, but it does NOT require me to turn the screw every couple of bullets!...maybe 8 to 10. Its been said on this forum lots of times...you really don't need alot of pressure on the screw...it merely feeds the pump. The pump supplies the pressure to feed lube to your bullet.

When you push down on the handle to punch a bullet through the die, are you pushing the handle all the way down to actuate the lube pump? If NO, you need to. If yes, you can adjust the fulcrum lever push rod (there are screws on either end of it) so it applies a little more leverage to the pump assembly (...if you turn the screws counter-clock wise, it will increase the amount of lube going into the die). -- Let us know if that helps.

[FISH4BUGS]

SAGAMORE ONE: not only am I making sure that I get a full stroke, if I pump it two or three times at the bottom it sort of puts a bit more lube into the bullet lube groove. Turn the crank a quarter turn and run the lever through the full cycle (including the very bottom of the stroke) it puts the lube in nicely. I would venture a guess that's not it.
CASTER: don't you just love the H&G moulds. Mine came from a 4 cavity and the bullets dropped like rain. These will be the blasting/practicing 38 bullets. I don't think it is the heat problem. I did a very tiny adjustment in the heat HIGHER and waited 20 minutes. The lube was like loose toothpaste at that point. Squishing out of the sizer die top. Not pretty.....I needed to back off a smudge to harden up the lube a bit. Waited 20 minutes which helped with the runny lube issue.
ROUNDNOSER: I think we are onto something here. I was not aware the lube sizer had any adjustments on it. I think I'll cut back the heat a touch and make those adjustments. I may not get to it for a few days but I wll repost here with the results. I still have over 1100 H&G 51's to do....,
Many thanks for the suggestions.....

[ReloaderFred]

Another thought is maybe the lube holes in the die aren't centered with the lube groove on the bullet. If just a portion of the lube holes are blocked by being either at the top or bottom of the lube groove, it will take more pressure to push the lube through the smaller orifice.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[FISH4BUGS]

ReloaderFred: thanks for the tip. I did not think of that. It was pumping lube (sort of) into the lube groove so depth was checked off my list....your point is well taken however. I will try that first and see if that does it. If not I will go the fulcrum lever push rod screw adjustment route.
Thanks for all the tips!

[376Steyr]

If your Midway heated base is an older one (circa 1994?) with a tiny adjusting screw, a small nudge of the screw can result in a big temperature swing. I adjust mine at most 1/16 of a turn at a time. A quarter turn increase of the adjusting screw on mine will make a hard lube go from rock solid to runny mush. Maybe that's one of the reasons why Midway quit selling their brand of heaters quite a while ago.

[dragonrider]

Just another thought, air bubble in the lube chamber. On the left side of the base just in front of the lube pump there is a slotted screw, about 5/16 th inch in diameter. Remove it and behind it should be filled with lube, if there is any empty space this could affect the amount of lube that gets pumped to the die. Just something to check.

[HATCH]

Did you try turning the lube pressure up.

Push the bullet out of the die.
Pull the handle and see how much lube you got coming out.
then readjust your bullet depth.

[KYCaster]

Yeah, what Hatch said.

What happens if you crank another five turns on the lube pressure? Do you get lube everywhere? How much are you sizing down? Less than .001, you'll probably get some leakage if you crank up the pressure.

What is your room temp? Below ~45*F you may need to heat the boolits and/or the lube reservoir for consistent results. 100W bulb in a reflector may help.

Good luck.
Jerry

[Texasflyboy]

Pressure - I have to crank the handle every two bullets - about a quarter turn (maybe a bit less) per two bullets.

Something is out of whack. A properly adjusted Star Sizer with a .38 Caliber bullet should provide about 10 to 20 bullets on before you have to crank on the lube reservoir pressure handle.


Lubing seems to work.....for two bullets. Push another one through and just get three little glops of lube in the groove. Then I turn the crank a quarter turn or less and it works for another two bullets.....and on and on.

Based on my first experience, this would seem to indicate you may have a very slight misalignment between the lube groove and the lube holes. Also, have you checked the lube holes in the die to ensure they are free and clean? I've had garbage get in the lube from time to time, especially back in the day when I was pouring it in the sizer reservoir as a semi-liquid. Always seemed to get hard bits stuck in the lube holes. That went away when I went to a solid lube (Paraffin based).


NOW the lube is glopping out of the sizer die and the spring pump jobbie on the bottom.

If you're getting lube squirting out of the pump sleeve, you may have a worn pump sleeve. I had to replace mine after about 75,000 bullets, it was worn at 12 and 6 O'clock and a bit at 3 and 9. The new sleeve has a 1/2 thou clearance between the piston and the sleeve wall and unless the lube is almost a pure liquid, I can crank up the pressure pretty darn high. With a semi-soft paraffin based lube, I often hit a sweet spot just before I run out of spring compression in the lube reservoir. With .45ACP's I can get a run of about 25 bullets like that before I have to crank it down again.



HERE IS THE QUESTION: Am I expecting too much here? Is two buillets before turning the crank normal and customary with the Star sizer and Magma Red lube?
If so I will just shut up and contemplate an air feed mechanism.
If not, please tell me what I am doing wrong. These pieces of equipment are almost new.
Help and advice is appreciated.

If the Star is new, then let's assume the pump sleeve is OK and everything else is fine mechanically.

I would:

1. Ensure you have adjusted the pump pressure screw optimally. This is an adjustable screw that varies the amount of pressure you deliver to the pump via the handle. By screwing the screw in or out, you vary the stroke of the pump.

2. Completely clean the sizer to ensure that no foreign debris is in the lube delivery path. I use a hot plate to sit the luber on top and let the goo just come out wherever it wants once I have removed all the stops. Cleaning a STAR luber completely of lube is almost an all day chore for me. But starting from clean has often worked wonders.

3. Check to ensure that the lube holes are free and clear for the die you are using.

4. After you clean the sizer (or before if you want to try this first) remove the die and pressurize the pump without the die in the star. If lube just dribbles out, you have an obstruction or other problem somewhere. If lube comes flying out, then you know you are pumping good lube out to the die.

5. Try adjusting the nose punch in one full screw turn or out one full screw turn to see if that improves lube flow. A very tight fitting bullet combined with a slightly misaligned lube row will make it hard for lube to get into the lube groove.

6. If the luber is clean, and the die is clean, try reversing the way you lube. If you lube base first, try nose first. And vice versa.


The problems you are having I have had before. 1-6 are my typical solutions that have worked for me.

Tom in VA

[garandsrus]

The suggestions above should take care of things.

Remember that the Star works very differently than the RCBS/Lyman sizer in that the plunger contains a spring that allows more boolits to be sized before adjusting the tension. When adding pressure, you will feel some tension as you first contact the lube and then as you keep tightening the pressure screw the spring will compress. Eventually the spring will bottom out and the handle cannot be turned any further. Back off from this position about a turn or so and see what happens.

Very little heat is required.

John

[Springfield]

My best guess is that you are not lined up perfectly with the lube groove. If you are close it WILL get pumped in there, the Star puts out a great deal of pressure, but it won't do that many bulllets. Try moving the punch down just a bit. And in my experience more pressure/less heat works better than the other way around.

[Dennis Eugene]

Garandsrus, echos my first thought. Make sure you have the pressure screw turned down tight. I almost always get better than 25 boolits befor I need to turn the pressure again. Dennis

[6bg6ga]

Before converting to the diy air cylinder I had to crank the lube every 25 bullets when sizing 225 gr round nose

[FISH4BUGS]

Many thanks to everyone with their suggestions. Tom, you are the best! Not only did you get me hooked on Hensley & Gibbs moulds but now you have a step by step "how to" on the Star sizer. Many thanks.
I will try to get to this shortly. I have to make a living in all this casting fun, you know.

[LAH]

The setting for the heat sounds 'bout right. The pressure screw should be turned down enough that the handle meets resistance at the end of the stroke. When using a bullet feed with tube I can get 'bout 30 bullets before having to turn the pressure screw 3 turns.

You are using 1/4 turns for 2 bullets. If you increase the pressure some you should be able to lube 10 bullets with one complete turn.

[mtgrs737]

I don't know if yours is an older machine or not, but one of mine broke the square wire lube pump spring, and that resulted in a reduced stroke as the spring threaded into itself. This same machine also had leakage due to a worn plunger and bushing. I ordered a few spare springs from Magma and then contacted Lathesmith about making me an oversized plunger as Magma wouldn't sell me a new bushing or base for my old machine. Lathesmith came through with the new oversized plunger and I picked up a reamer off ebay, fitted it all up and it is now the best luber I have. I am telling you this as I experianced a reduced lube quanity flow when this problem occured.

If you are not experiancing little globs of lube on the nose of the boolits when sizing then you may not have enough spring pressure on the lube resiviour so that it refilles the lube plunger chamber between strokes. Mind you that you don't want those little globs of lube to appear as that means that you have residule lube pump pressure that forces small amounts of lube out the die holes when the next boolit pushes the lubed boolit through the die. So crank up the resiviour screw five or six turns and see if you get more boolits between cranks.

If you are not getting lube in the groove with the resiviour screw cranked several times then you have a blocke lube chamber or your lube plunger is not building any pressure there. You may not have enough heat for the lube to be fuild, so check that the lube is soft enough to handle like putty, if it is hard then it may not flow enough to fill the lube chamber between strokes.

If you still don't have lube flow, remove the die and pump the handle to check for flow, it should flow freely. If not then a good cleanout is a good idea. Remove the resiviour plunger , handle, and that big brass sloted plug screw in the side of the base by the die and put the luber in a pan of boiling water, the lube will boil out. Dry it out, re-oil all metal parts and re-assemble add lube and let it heat back up. I keep my heater at around 100 degrees and it seems to work well for me.

As long as you are getting lube to the lube pump, you should feel pressure on the end of the handle stroke. This should move enough lube to fill the groove.

Good luck.

[EDK]

I had problems with a .452 die in my STAR for years. Lube didn't flow very well and there was a scratch on the boolits. I took the die out, cleaned off the lube on the outside, checked the holes PLUS tinkered with the lube plunger, etc. I finally used a set of welders tip cleaning files to check the lube holes and found just enough lead left in several to block the holes AND they would be pushed into the bore of the die by lube pressure, hence the scratch on the boolits.

This might not be your problem, but it is probably worth checking out.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[CJR]

A new Star die I purchased was giving me problems. I pulled the die, cleaned it, and noticed that a number of lube holes had not been drilled through. Sent it back and received a replacement. All is good now.

Best regards,

CJR

[FISH4BUGS]

I have done all the suggestions everyone has given me. Nothing has worked. I am so frustrated at this point I think I am going for a long walk.
I have to turn the pressure handle virtually EVERY bullet. AND I MEAN TURN IT.....RIGHT DOWN TO NO MORE TURNING AVAILABLE. I get MAYBE 1 bullet that works well.....if I am lucky I get that. If I pump the handle 10 times at the bottom of the stroke (watching the pump go in and out all the while) MAYBE I get 2 bullets sized and lubed. I am using a brand new 358 sizer die. The H&G 51 has a lube groove the width of the Panama Canal. Changes in depth makes no friggin' difference. Temp up? It just runs out all over the place. Temp down? I doesn't even flow. Adjust the pump screw? No difference. In fact, it doesn't do anything for it. It doesn't move in or out for any adjustment whatsoever.
First thing tomorrow, Magma gets a call, and the lube sizer goes back. Let THEM fix it. I am sick of it. This thing has been a pain in the butt since the day I bought it new from Magma. I know there are many that say they are the best, but I think something is wrong here. I think it is a defect somewhere somehow.
Maybe I am being totally stupid here but I don't care any more. This thing is a pain in a butt like no other piece of equipment I own....or have EVER owned.
My Mercedes diesel has 314,000 miles on it and still runs like a swiss watch. 35 mpg, doesn't burn a drop of oil, comfortable to drive, and reliable as all get out. NOT LIKE THE STAR SIZER!
I did not have the troubles with a Lyman 45 sizer. Easy to set up, easy to use, and no frustrations. I am done with this Star sizer. Let THEM fix it.
I am done.
End of rant.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Maybe you got a lemon. Don't give up on it. Let Magma look at it and fix it. There has to be a problem with it if you followed all the tips suggested.

[Casting Timmy]

I didn't know what you think about mine at first either. I definitely think the Lyman and RCBS units are easier to work with, but if you get the Star right it does go faster. It can also make a bigger mess faster if things are going wrong which leads to the frustration.

Hopefully they'll figure it out and you'll be up and running soon.

[GrumpyFinn]

I just received my Star about 3 days ago, mine had the same problem, I think I found my problem.

Upper rubber O-ring in the die slot had broken when I pushed the die in, it was missing about 1/8" piece and the pressure would not "stay" in the die, pushing the too warm lube up and out, or with too cold lube would just get one or two little globs on the bullet.

Needless to say, the little 3" stick that comes with the purchase is now used as flux when I re-melt the boolits and start all over. Atleast I had all the ingredient in the house to make some more lube while I was trying to figure out what was going on with "the best" loobing machine available.

Worked for me.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

That o-ring will break every time your remove the die unless you have a heater base and get it nice and toasty before your try to remove it. I have run without that oring and it works fine.

[jsizemore]

I learned the most about my star by operating it without a boolit in the die. I cussed mine till somebody on this site posted this tip. Played with pressure screw and lube temp and had my flashlight so I could look at the result inside the die. Used ice cream bar sticks to push out the worms of lube. The only difference between a boolit in the die and not is a "bump" at the bottom of the stroke with a boolit in the die. I got a digital meat thermometer with a remote probe from wally world that I stick under the pump bushing/spring. $18 but cheap after the price of the star and the frustration. I set the alarm and it tells me when it's made temp. As little as 4 degrees can take you from perfect to running out on the nose with Carnuba Red. I'm like most folks that I get 20 boolits lubed with a 1/2 turn on the lube screw. Good Luck.

[Doby45]

I say there is a problem with the machine. The mechanics of the Star are as simplistic as any other lubrisizer if not more so. I pulled mine right out of the box, inserted my lathesmith made .452 die and poured my melted BAC/C-Red mixture in, let it sit to harden and then put the plunger in and screwed it down till it bottomed out. Lubed approx 20-25 prior to touching it again.

[beladran]

a little teflon tape works wonders if you are getting lube leaking out the top from damaged o rings


I just received my Star about 3 days ago, mine had the same problem, I think I found my problem.

Upper rubber O-ring in the die slot had broken when I pushed the die in, it was missing about 1/8" piece and the pressure would not "stay" in the die, pushing the too warm lube up and out, or with too cold lube would just get one or two little globs on the bullet.

Needless to say, the little 3" stick that comes with the purchase is now used as flux when I re-melt the boolits and start all over. Atleast I had all the ingredient in the house to make some more lube while I was trying to figure out what was going on with "the best" loobing machine available.

Worked for me.

[HATCH]

The Magma lube is harder then the bac red.
Bac Red, I can put a hair dryer on the sizer and it works.
Magma requires alot more heat to move.

With no heat at all I could use the Star using BAC RED (temps 60 or above) with the standard screw setup. With the Air cylinder set at 100 psi the lube didn't move until I put some heat on.
My regulator doesn't go over 100psi even though there is 130psi in the tank. ARGH!

[beladran]

do you know what the air pressure limit is on a star befor it cracks/explodes?

[FISH4BUGS]

I called them today and told them of my tale of woe. The woman (not the usual one with the Brahma Bull voice) was very understanding and finally said...."OK....you have been riding this bull long enough".
They said '....box it up with everything.....sized bullets, unsized bullets, lube, handle heater and all.....we will take a look and we'll fix it. We will call if there is any charge"
Let's see how this one goes.

[Fixxah]

My heater from Magma tops out at 110 degrees which I feel is just shy of optimum temperature. I ordered an air cylinder today after trying every combination I could think of to no avail. I put the hand crank back on and have the same results, basically two or three boolits per quarter turn. Then wipe the nose before sizing the next one. Tedious but it's not like I need to size more than a few hundred for my 45/70 anyway.

I am also using the Magma Red.

[rodsvet]

It's a balancing act of heat and pressure and lining up the die holes. Sometimes you just want to throw the M!@#$ machine in the trash. Then all of a sudden you find the right combo and all is well! Don't give up, after all it's only a hobby. Good Luck guys, Rod

[sergeant69]

It's a balancing act of heat and pressure and lining up the die holes. Sometimes you just want to throw the M!@#$ machine in the trash. Then all of a sudden you find the right combo and all is well! Don't give up, after all it's only a hobby. Good Luck guys, Rod

actually, with a lot of guys, its not a hobby, its a PASSION. and thats a good thing too!!

[thegreatdane]

I've got one on the way, and after reading this thread (and others) about Star Setup - I'm a little bit anxious.

Oh well, I'm technically competent. I'll figure it out.

[LAH]

I've got one on the way, and after reading this thread (and others) about Star Setup - I'm a little bit anxious.

Oh well, I'm technically competent. I'll figure it out.

Unless there is a factory fault there is nothing to it. The bullet punch adjustment is simple & the pressure/heat thing is learned quickly. I think most people have trouble because the first isn't done properly before the second is figured the problem.

[ronbo]

Just set up a new Star magna luber last night. Am using Jakes hard molly lube with a Lyman heater plate wired with a light dimmer adjustment. I had no problem sizing bullets from a Lee mould at .452 but tried to size Lee cone shaped 9 mm bullets that came out of the mould at .360 down to .356. That didn't work and gave up after I thought the handle would bend.

What am I doing wrong on the 9 mm bullets?

Added, I did lube the first 9mm bullets with imperial sizing die wax and the die with a Q tip.

[dragonrider]

Ronbo, before putting them into the Star try spraying the boolits with some kind of lubricant, silicone, or case lube, a dry die will give you a lot of resisitance.

[songdog53]

I may have problems with mine today but haven't had a hitch yet, still prefer the boolits dropping out bottom and haven't had an lube problems and i just measure from top of die to bottom pin and write it down and when change back to this boolit it works smoothly. Very things have lemons or something not right i always call these a Friday or Monday model. Hope can get things worked out and i know can be most flustrating when pay price u do for a Star.

[GrumpyFinn]

Today I finally found my problem. Alignment of holes was totally off, I finally took the die out and while the boolit was inside, pushed a straightened fishing hook (didn't have any needles) through the lube holes and marked the boolit, pushed it out and whatdayaknow, NOT even close to the groove, little adjustment and now I can lube with 45psi (before I needed 120psi), no heat and after 1000 boolits no major adjustments needed, well it's Florida so 85 degrees is not really considered heat.

[LAH]

Just set up a new Star magna luber last night. Am using Jakes hard molly lube with a Lyman heater plate wired with a light dimmer adjustment. I had no problem sizing bullets from a Lee mould at .452 but tried to size Lee cone shaped 9 mm bullets that came out of the mould at .360 down to .356. That didn't work and gave up after I thought the handle would bend.

What am I doing wrong on the 9 mm bullets?

Added, I did lube the first 9mm bullets with imperial sizing die wax and the die with a Q tip.

Sizing from .360 to .356 is a bunch. If your alloy is hard, say 12 BHN or above it would be better to size in two steps, perhaps sizing a lubing to .358 first, then sizing to .356. Just a thought.

[ronbo]

Double post

[ronbo]

I have the new star figured out this morning now I think. The .356 Star die I have is an old die from California. I spun some fitz metal polish on a soft cloth chamber cleaner fob inside the .356 die and polished it up to mirror finish inside. Am using a Lyman heater with a light dimmer, bought a battery powered cooking thermostat at walmart and mounted the temp probe on the face of the heater plate. With the hard Jakes lube about 110 to 115 degrees seems to be the sweet spot, any hotter and I had small blobs of lube on the bullet nose.

The 9 mm now go through the star sizer like hot butter, I love the thing, have never had such easy bullet sizing and fast.

Picture of the $14 Walmart thermostat, bent some metal clips to hold the probe on the Lyman heater plate.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/sling_1084.jpg

Picture of heater 600W dimmer slider control, mounted a metal electric box on the wall to hold the dimmer and outlet.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/sling_1085.jpg

[lathesmith]

Nice setup Ron!