5C Index Fixture Fix - Collet Won't Seat -Dial-up Death

[Dutchman]

I got this last week off ebay. $22.50 + $55 shipping. One of those rare bargins to be sure.

http://www.phase2plus.com/details.asp?pr=5C_HORIZONTAL_VERTICAL_COLLET_INDEX&id=15

The problem is some collets fit and some don't. Seems the Chinese collets fit but Hardinge, CWC, German 5C don't want to go all the way. So tonight I took it apart to inspect and see whatfer. What I found is that this thing shows barely any use. Maybe this collet fit is why. By the s/n I think it was made in 2000. The remains of dried oil/varnish is all that's left inside. Moving parts show next to no wear.

Same ID tag, model as the Phase II.
http://images107.fotki.com/v84/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF2681y-vi.jpg

The problem is in the spindle.
http://images116.fotki.com/v107/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF2684y-vi.jpg

This surface where the index pin fits the slot on the 5C collet body to keep the collet from spinning in the spindle.
http://images55.fotki.com/v605/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF2686y-vi.jpg

This is the index plate. It has 24 divisions, detents.
http://images107.fotki.com/v71/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF2693y-vi.jpg

These dog point setscrews go in the 24 holes. To deactivate that particular index location you screw in the setscrew and it disallows the indexing pin to seat in the hole. This is so you can set a repeatable pattern of stops. Kinda neat. I didn't know this fixture had that feature.
http://images43.fotki.com/v504/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF2695y-vi.jpg

My 5C collets are a hodgepodge of makes from Chinese, German and American Hardinge in round, square and hexagonal.
http://images110.fotki.com/v606/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF2711y-vi.jpg

5C round 3/32", 5/32" because they are the pilot size for counterbores. From 1/8" to 1" in 16ths. Hex 3/8", 1/2", 3/4", 13/16". Square 1/2", 5/8", 3/4". Generally I'll buy used Hardinge with internal thread (for collet stops) when possible because they're the best. But Chinese 5C are so much better than they were 25 years ago and under $10 new so if I need one I'll get it off ebay or add to an order from Enco. All the square and all the hex cost me $55 from one seller on ebay. None are Chinese.

I started measuring the 5C collets. Body diameter is nominally 1.250". I briefly thought it might be that indexing pin but that's not it. The groove width is nominally .125". Groove depth is nominally .055"+. I did find some variances in this groove with the Chinese being the more generously dimensioned. I thought I was on to something with the groove but clearly from the layout dye it's the body diameter that's keeping the collet from fully seating.

The solution is I'll have to remove the indexing pin, easy enough. Then I'll have to lathe spin the spindle and polish that inner surface until the larger collets fit easily. Only about .001" to .0015" needs to come out. I'll have to wrap some cloth around a dowel and then wrap emery cloth with a few drops of oil and just go at it.

The top collets didn't fit, the bottom ones did.
http://images107.fotki.com/v67/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF2729y-vi.jpg

The dimensional differences are very small:

Kent- Germany 1.2505" body, .124" groove width, .055" groove depth. Did not fit.
Chinese 3/16" 1.2495" body, .126" groove width, .068" groove depth. Fit ok.
CWC 5/16" 1.2502" body, .1244" groove width, .046" groove depth. Fits.
Enco 1/2" 1.2502" body, .126" groove width, .067" groove depth. Fiits tight.
Hardinge 7/16" 1.2508" body, .1235" groove width, .052" groove depth. No fit.
Hardinge 3/4" square 1.251" body, .126" groove width, .063" groove depth. No fit
German 1/2" square 1.2501" body, .126" groove width, .041" groove depth. Fit snug.

[Dutchman]

December has been an exceptional month for milling machine tooling. Another Swedish Mauser collector on the east coast gifted me with this beautiful slightly used Kurt D60 milling vise with 2 spare sets of jaws and that blue work stop. Unbelievably nice milling vise.

There are 4 Swedish Mauser m/96 LER scope mounts in the vise getting the cross slots milled at the same time. The previous batch was 7 mounts at one time. I couldn't do that many with the Chinese 4" vise...

http://images57.fotki.com/v80/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF2595-vi.jpg

[Dutchman]

Last year the same Swedish Mauser collector, who's also a retired machinist, sent me this beautiful set of custom made barrel vises and receiver wrench for the 1896 Swede. And a pound of powdered rosin and barrel seating grease.

http://images54.fotki.com/v461/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF0889bw-vi.jpg

http://images112.fotki.com/v494/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF0890-vi.jpg

Everything shimmed, stamped with sizes and hot dipped black oxided.

http://images58.fotki.com/v506/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF0893-vi.jpg

[Dutchman]

At the exact time these barreling tools arrived I was in the process of making this 98 Mauser receiver arbor for facing the front ring surface:

See the cast bullet in the lathe dog I was using as a spacer:).

http://images16.fotki.com/v3/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF0769kk-vi.jpg

And I was just starting on a 98 Mauser receiver wrench.. a rather beefy one.

http://images110.fotki.com/v606/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF0786yy-vi.jpg

http://images54.fotki.com/v1614/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF0791yy-vi.jpg

http://images17.fotki.com/v1622/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF0794yy-vi.jpg

[scrapcan]

Dutch,

When you get tired of some of that tooling you can surely send it my way. Of course if you send mill tooling, please send the mill too!

[2Tite]

I think you've run into the same problem I have with the various 5C collets. The threaded shank on some of them is several threads longer than on others. I recently borrowed a Hardinge collet in a size I didn't have and found it didn't fit. The difference I found was in the length of the threaded shank. I sorry to say that offhand I don't remember which one did but with both you should be able to find out. I notice from the pictures that you have those that fit in the lower position. By my count they both have a shorter threaded shank than the two which did not fit. You might see if that provides an answer to your problem. It worked for me. My puzzle is why do some of the Hardinge collets have a longer threaded shank than others?