Tumble Lube vs Pan Lube vs Lubrisizer Lube

[22to45]

Gentlemen:
I am just wondering on prefered lubing methods for the various velocity ranges. What works for you. I currently just tumble lube, but I am just a rookie. I do not have a lubrisizer, although if the gains were fairly certain I would get one. I am wanting to shoot heavy 30 cal rifle bullets at hunting velocities for big game, and just wondering what you guys have had success with.
Thanks

[runfiverun]

they are just all methods.
if you find one you're comfortable with and can make it work, coool.
you can combine two methods also.
swirl lubing a warmed up regular lube will fill the lube grooves on a boolit. and coat it like alox does.
tumble lube works on regular stuff, and i run tumble lube boolits through my star.
i also dip lube some styles then size so i can fill all the lube grooves without mashing them.

[Shooter6br]

I use pan lubing for regular cast pistol.and TL for Lee TL bullets. Like the pan lube for most. I use Emment's lube. Article on Cast Pics "Piece of cake" I shoot under 1250fps mainly.Exception is 160g Lee gas checked for SKS .TL with Lee liqiud for that

[Shooter6br]

Here is link http://www.castpics.net/ Look under "Member Articles"

[Dan Cash]

I fall into the pan lube school. The only thing I don't pan lube is .30 gas check bullets for .30-30. There I use a Lyman sizer/lubricator to seat the checks and lube while I am at it. I am experimenting with Lee bullet sizing system to seat the gas checks after I pan lube as the Lyman is slower than next Christmas coming.

Pan lubing is fast and with my lube, very efficient. This will ignite the flame machine here but, for me, one lube serves me for BP shooting and smokeless pistol and rifle. The lube is a little dirty but cleans up easily and does the job; .357 plain base bullet at 1300 - no lead, .30 gas check at 2100 through a microgroove Marlin. The Marlin holds accuracy through at least 75 rounds of practice and competition in lever gun matches and is printing right at 1 1/2 MOA. The BP cartridge is the .45-70 and this system serves me well with blow tubing the gun without swabbing the bore during a match.

Just what works for me.
Dan

[357shooter]

I started pan lubing, moved to tumble lubing for some time, retried pan lubing and now use a $75 Lyman lubrisizer from ebay. I shoot a bunch each month (1,000+ boolits) in my revolver and am very satisfied that the lubrisizer works best for me. FYI, I don't really size as I use a 360 die for all my 38 specials and 357 magnums; so the process is very fast.

Pan lubing: The time to pan lube a bunch of boolits each month was pretty high. The time to put boolits into lubecakes, melt, cool, pop-boolits out was hours. It would take me 2-3 plus hours to pan lube 200-300 boolits. But it does work well, maybe a bit messy, which means the messiness is also noticed on the reloading press. Loved the clean shiny barrel using homemade lube.

Tumble lube: Very fast, but was the messiest on the reloading press. Effective, but not with the clean shiny barrel. Not my favorite way to lube, but it can work well. At least in handguns as I'm not very knowledgeable regarding rifles.

Lubrisizer: Once I learned a process I can lube 400 an hour of 357 magnum 168 grain boolits. I also learned how to not transfer excesss lube to the boolit nose and place them nose down into Styrofoam trays. With little to no setup time I can get 400 very clean boolits done and ready to load in 1 hour. Because I don't size it's very fast, there's no resistance to speak of. This is the cleanest lube approach all the way through the reloading process and is the most effective that I've found. I now get the clean shiny barrel again, like pan lubing, but it's much quicker and cleaner.

I don't know how this translates to 30 cal rifle boolits, but thought it might be helpful anyway. I recommend a lubrisizer to anyone casting, getting a used one when cash-flow permits is a good step to verify if it's helpful to you too. Now, to read the other replys and see what others think..

[mdi]

A luber-sizer is one piece of equipment I don't have, and I have no plans on getting one soon. I only lube/size in lots of about 100 so 2 pans for pan lubing is fine and will last me a couple outings (I don't cast for quantity, Besides 40 or 50 full patch .44 Magnums is enough for one day). I have Lee push through sizers for all my cast boolits so installing gas checks is no prob. I tumble lube for a few of my boolits (45-45-10 mostly) but for my magnum loads I pan lube.

BTW, I hear a lot about "production", how many boolits that can be sized/luned in an hour. Well, I have a hobby called boolit casting, and I enjoy it. I do not have a quota nor a time limit. If I needed to cast/lube a specific number of boolits per hour, I prolly wouldn't. Since it's a fun passtime for me, sometimes I'll sit in front of my pot for a couple hours, or three. I'd much rather make 100 good bullets an hour than rush through a casting session to get 200 (and when you rush, you make mistakes). I'd rather cast in two sessions (and enjoy casting twice) than a marathon session that makes enough for six months of shooting. I might cast a hundred .44s today and tomorrow a bunch of 38s and maybe another day a couple hundred .45s for my 1911. Then I'll put the boolits in the holes of my lube cake, slide them in my toaster oven @ 175 for 20 minutes and go about another fun task. When I hear the "ding" I take the pan out to cool and in a few minutes I can push the boolits out of the cake. Some will get sized, some may get gas checks, and some are shot as-cast.

FWIW, I can get up to 1,000 deluxe cast boolits at one sitting! All I gotta do is type "Bear Tooth Bullets" and give them my credit card number!:bigsmyl2:

[Recluse]

I do two out of the three.

If the only way for me to shoot cast boolits was by pain-lubing (and no, that's not a typo because it is a paIn for me to do), I'd sell all my lead, tin, molds, furnaces, smelting set-up, etc etc and load jacketed bullets.

I'll get rid of my casting equipment when I get rid of my Apple computers and start putting beans in my chili.

There are a lot of folks who have pain-lubing down to an art. Me? Every time I try to pain-lube, it results in more years spent in Purgatory and less time spent in Heaven due to the language I use and the thoughts I have.

So, I tumble-lube and use my beloved Lyman 45 lubrisizers. I also make up my own custom lube, for which I'm a complete idiot because White Label Carnauba Red and the other White Label lubes are about as good as they get--and Glenn makes and sells them for a lot less than the trouble it's worth to make your own lubes.

But, I've always been a slow learner.

As far as tumble-lubing? I played around a few years ago and stumbled across a method that has served me well ever since. You can read about it here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654

As stated in the thread, I get no leading, very little smoke and after one or two swabs with a dry cotton patch, a clean shiny barrel.

Primary two rounds I use this method for are for my Number One All Time Best Shooting Boolit which comes from a Lee two-cavity TL158SWC in .358. The other boolit I tumble-lube is the Lee TL230RN in .452. I often tumble-lube various boolits from different molds that have traditional lube grooves and they shoot every bit as well as if I'd lubed them with a stick lube.

In some cases, such as with my 105 SWC in .358, they shoot better.

Most of my pistol loads are at reduced velocities, but I do load up that TL158SWC to +P velocities as part of the standard load for it. No leading. I've also loaded and shot it at .357 Magnum velocities. No leading.

When it comes to rifle loads, or anything going out of a longer barrel at a higher velocity, I haven't had nearly as good of luck with tumble-lubing. Now, whenever I have a bore-rider boolit, after I've seated the gas check and then lubed it (lubrasizer), I will give it a light tumble lube to coat the nose of the boolit. Seems to help.

For rifle loads, I have a (pretty much) full set of the Lee push-through sizers. I use them on the rifle loads for seating the gas check and any sizing that might need to be done. I use the push-through system because it pushes the boolit via the base. My lubrasizers push the boolit via the nose.

I then use the lubrasizers with dies .001 larger so that all they do is apply lube--no sizing, thus no pressure on the nose of the boolit (prevents damage to the nose or from the boolit possibly getting bent).

The lubrasizers see various boolits in pistol caliber as well, but as you'll discover in your casting and reloading journey, you'll find the magical combination that each gun likes and then you'll pretty much stick to that.

:coffee:

[pdawg_shooter]

For top velocity, accuracy, and no need of a gas check with a soft enough alloy for hunting try paper patching. Then any lube will do. Smear it on, push through a die to remove excess and load like jacketed.

[376Steyr]

Get a lubri-sizer, then you can ask the question on this board that gets people more worked up than talking about sex, politics, or religion: "What's better, hard lube or soft lube?"[smilie=1:

[noylj]

Start with as-cast bullets and tumble lube with pure LLA/Xlox. Once you know how that performs, you can try tumble lubing with JPW/LLA. If that is better, based on what you consider important, then that becomes your method.
Then, you can buy some lube such as Carnauba Red or BAC, or other stick lube. Melt this lube, warm up the bullets, and try pan lubing. If this is better than the tumble lube methods, then this becomes your method.
If you just have to try sizing your bullets, get a Lee kit and pan lube the bullets before pushing them through the die. If this is better, then this is your method.
Notice that you start simple and work up in cost and time and can stop at any time when the method gives you the best accuracy or whatever you are aiming for.
I moved through the methods backwards over 35 years and right now am happy with just tumble lubing (it has to be over 10 years since I used my Lubri-Sizer). Now that I have read about 45/45/10, I plan to mix some up the next time I lube my bullets.

[RU shooter]

For me I only pan lube and push through size . It may not be as fast as a lubersizer but I'm using the same lube as I would use in that machine,namely lars 2500+ I've gotten fairly fast at the process and can do approx 75-100 in one pan I do it a bit different than most. Take the lube melt it,(I use a old toaster oven) in a metal pan of your choice to the top of the lube grooves, stand up a bunch of boolits in the melted lube approx. 1/4-- 1/2" apart,you'll only need to do this once. Let cool till solid but not cold ,when still warm just grab on to the nose lightly with a pair of forcepts or NN pliers and pull up and out. You should hear a sucking "pop" sound and you have a perfectly lubed boolit ,it its too hard to pull out the lube is too cool if the hole caves in after you pull out the boolit too warm still. may take a time or two to get the hang of it, I start at the edge of the pan and work my way towards the middle as the edges cool quicker. This may or may not work with short nose designs but like I said I only cast rifle boolits.
Now next time simply fill those empty holes in with boolits, pop back in the oven for 15-20 or so min. on 150-170 degree wait till it cools to solid and repeat( the trick to success it to get the boolit the same temp as the lube. Like I said not the fastest way but I'm not in a race anyways .


Tim

[357shooter]

Hey MDI, you commenting on my post? OK, I enjoy my hobby too, glad you know what works for you. Why comment/slam what works for me?

I believe that's a bit out of line, not appreciated. I'll stop with that.

[mdi]

Hey MDI, you commenting on my post? OK, I enjoy my hobby too, glad you know what works for you. Why comment/slam what works for me?

I believe that's a bit out of line, not appreciated. I'll stop with that.

If you care to reread my post you may see that I mentioned no names, I referred to no previous post, I hinted at no poster, and I stated my opinions only. I explained how I have lubed/sized my bullets successfully for about 12 years. I explained how I'm a low volume caster/shooter and why I'm in no hurry. In a nutshell, I said I think too many people are in too much of a hurry; cast faster, cast more, lube faster, lube more, load more, load faster! If that is offensive to you, sorry...:violin:

[Recluse]

Hey MDI, you commenting on my post? OK, I enjoy my hobby too, glad you know what works for you. Why comment/slam what works for me?

I believe that's a bit out of line, not appreciated. I'll stop with that.

Sorry, but I read and re-read both of your posts and didn't see any slam or even any hint of a slam on anything you said.

Biggest beef about pan-lubing that I've heard about for all the years I've been into all the reloading stuff was the time involved. Most of those complaints came from high-volume shooters--same ones that a Star lubrasizer is a match made in Heaven for.

I've stated repeatedly and for years that I refer to pan-lubing as pain-lubing. Not a slam against anyone who enjoys it.

I've tumble-lubed with great success for a number of years and get virtually no smoke, zero mess and a clean, shiny bore.

There are a lot of ways to do this cast boolit stuff and even more ways to look at it.

:coffee:

[357shooter]

Sorry to take offense then. I took the comments on "production numbers", "wanting to produce 100 good bullets instead of 200 bad ones" etc as a direct comment on the content of what I said.

My hobby does include a lot of shooting, about 1,000 rounds per month. I'd like to think that my cast handloads are extremely high quality. I don't have unlimited time, so coming up with a process that works and can lube a bunch of boolits in an hour or two is important. It's more important that they are high quality.

I agree on the pain lubing, it takes to much time. Especially when time is limited and shooting a bunch.

Sorry for taking it the wrong way. Maybe I just need a vacation...:-):-)

[Recluse]

Sorry to take offense then. I took the comments on "production numbers", "wanting to produce 100 good bullets instead of 200 bad ones"

Heh, that's always one of the big arguments it seems. . . get a Star and crank out 19,000 perfectly lubed boolits per five minutes, or pain-lube and turn out 100 boolits every 100 days, or tumble lube and get carted away by the EPA Toxic Police SWAT unit.

It's all fun.

:coffee:

[mdi]

I only state MY opinions and MY methods on forums. I Never "should on" any one.

[Char-Gar]

I started lubing bullets with a pan and Kake Kutter. Works fine, but way too slow and didn't size the bullets. I next bought a Lyman 45 and used it for 25 years. I then bought a Lyman 450 and now have three of them I use. I keep each one loaded with a different lube.

1. 65/35 beeswax and Vaseline (my go to lube for 95% of my shooting)
2. Felix lube
3 50/50 beeswax and black moly auto grease (also good, but Vaseline is cheaper)

My casting and lubing habits were formed before there every was such a thing as tumble lube and have never seen any reason to try it. So, I can't offer any comments on such stuff, but some folks swear by it and others swear at it.

[22to45]

Thanks for the good feedback gentlemen.. I come from the high velocity jacketed bullet club, you know us, wringing the last 50 fps out of a round, regardless of brass life, and throat life.. I am wanting to develop system so I can shoot 200 grain cast bullets, but I still find myself wanting to get max velocity, even if that is 2400 fps... actually I would be happy with anything that works very well above 2200 fps.. I have shot one moose with a boolit out of the 45 70, of course it fell like it was hit by a train.. I would like to shoot one with a 30 cal....

[unclebill]

i am a (relatively) new kid here.
never even seen a lubrisizer.
and shoot maybe 5-700 cast boolits a month.
i tried pan lubing but it was (you guessed it) too slow.
tumble lubing is the fastest and easiest for me.
the bottom line is i just want to shoot.
the faster i can get my beloved boolits
sized,lubed and in a case.
the happier i am.
i tumble-size-tumble
BTW
i love this site and am constantly learning here.
thank you gents.

[unclebill]

P.S.
i am a bachelor and my kitchen stinks like LLA.:wink:

[nanuk]

I am going to chew up a mix of beeswax, ear wax, and carnauba wax, then wash it down with LLA.
then I'm going to swallow 100 cast boolits at a time.

when they finally come out of the processor/lube applicator, they should have the lube grooves full and will be sized ready to shoot. :kidding:

[troyboy]

lmao. That was funny.

[sdelam]

I am going to chew up a mix of beeswax, ear wax, and carnauba wax, then wash it down with LLA.
then I'm going to swallow 100 cast boolits at a time.

when they finally come out of the processor/lube applicator, they should have the lube grooves full and will be sized ready to shoot. :kidding:

Are those .22's or .69's?:p

[fecmech]

I started with a Lyman 450 and still use it for low volume and have it loaded with CRed for when I want to try a different lube. I have a Star for most of what I do with Magma hard lube in it and this past year I returned to tumble lubing when a friend gave me the Lee 158SWC TL. That boolit and "Recluse" lube are the easiest, fastest, very accurate and most unfussy combination I've found. I've not tried pan lubing, nor will I but if it works for a fellow why not. I have come around on tumble lubing, particularly because of the work Recluse has done with his 45-45-10 mix. I think there is a definite niche for TL boolits and am beginning to use them more myself.

[fredj338]

I'm in the luber/sizer camp. I really don't like Alox & pan lubing sucks for speed. I bought a Lyman then a Star sizer. Sold the Lyman & everything gets done in the Star. I can have 1000 bullets sized & lubed, ready to shoot in 30min w/ little fuss & mess. I would only go back if there was no other option, fortunately, I don't have to.