9mm revolver.

[DeanWinchester]

Okay, I'm at that point where I'm fixin to have a lot to do in the reloading room, I'm just waiting on a few things from Midway. The wife is taking a nap and I needed a little time in the shop. My mind starts wandering and I've been thinking about Ruger's SP101 in 9mm lately. I love my .357 and I think the SP is one of the best revolvers out there. I was pondering the moon clips when it occurred to me; Where is the 9mm auto rim? You have a 45 auto rim. Why not a 9mm auto rim? I snatched up a Federal .38 special case, ran it through my 9x19 dies, trimmed it to 3/4" and put a 130g truncated cone boolit I use for my 9x19 loads. No powder and a dead primer. Seated and roll crimped. It looks really cool I think. After I trimmed it I took a few measurements w/ an inside micrometer and a pair of calipers. The inside dimensions are dang close to a Federal 9mm case.

Has anyone ever done this?

Yes, I was very bored, but if necessity is the mother of invention, boredom is the illegitimate father.:smile:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/iluvmyferrets/photo.jpg

[theperfessor]

I've often wondered the same thing. Even in a snubby the short 9mm cases can be totally ejected, which is not the case w/.38s. Good exercise. Thanks for sharing.

[DeanWinchester]

Yeah, and I was thinking, In a Ruger any differences in case capacity would likely be fine provided you stuck to sane person loads using 9x19 data. We all know they will take a LOT more than they are willing to tell. Not that we should push that, but I'm just saying.

Also, moon clips are fine and all, but when casual plinking or trotting through the woods they can be a pain as they suffer from Garand syndrome. This would let you replace one or two empties without replacing the whole cylinder.

[thehouseproduct]

All that would be needed is a conversion cylinder, correct?

[DeanWinchester]

All that would be needed is a conversion cylinder, correct?

Well, unbeknownst to many, Ruger actually made an SP 101 in a dedicated 9x19. S&W and Taurus have also.

If one had another cylinder fitted and chambered appropriately to a 357/38, you'd have to load with a larger bullet and really it's be more trouble than it's worth. IMHO

[sargenv]

There was a rimmed version of the 9mm and I believe a charter arms revolver to go along with it.. the problem was that 9mm rimmed ammo would fit in the much older and not as stoutly built 38 S&W (Not 38 special). There was some concern about people using the much higher pressure 9mm rimmed ammo in older guns only suitable for the 38 S&W and it was soon discontinued.. You may still be able to find ammo and brass for the 9mm rimmed.

On another note, there were some people trying to use moon clipped 9mm in the 627 chambered in 38 super.. the straight wall of the super lended to inaccuracy when people used the taper cased 9mm. It was soon given up and a lot of ICORE shooters instead went to 357 magnum chambered revolvers utilizing 38 short colt cases instead. A moon clipped SP 101 sounds like it would be fun...

[wallenba]

Very interesting.

[bhn22]

The factory round was called the 9mm Federal, and was discontinued ages ago. The ammunition is worth more that the guns are, a local dealer once offered a free Charter Arms revolver with the purchase of 4 boxes on ammo. The catch? The ammo was about $90.00/box. The ammo ended up not being an issue with 38 S&S revolvers. The difference in bullet diameters was great enough that gas actually blew by the bullet, lowering the chamber pressures. I've had two S&W 940 revolvers, and found them to be exceptionally finicky about ammo and point of impact. They were also really fussy about case length, and one had to go back to S&W for a chamber "update". Neither one of them live here anymore. Recoil is brisk, but terminal performance was unimpressive. I replaced them with 38 Spls, which gave me the results I wanted. I did find a box on Gunbroker for you to look at


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=207668157

[Piedmont]

I don't think that will work for the following reasons. The round won't headspace on the rim because the cylinder is set up for the thickness of the half moon clip or moon clip PLUS the 9mm rim. Auto Rim cases have extra thick rims. Now you could taper crimp and it would headspace on the mouth of the case and probably extract without need of a clip. Another problem you will have is the size of a 9mm case in front of the extractor groove is larger than the .38 special, so those will be rattling around in your chambers and might not be aligned very well at ignition.

The headspace issue wouldn't be a factor in a Ruger Blackhawk because they were never set up for use with the clips.

[DeanWinchester]

Good point Piedmont, I didn't think of that.

[Thumbcocker]

I have wondered if a short .38 spec case would not work in a 9mm revolver. Have you tried priming an empty case and seeing if it will pop in your gun?

[Jim]

For what it's worth, here's an OPTION (http://fgsp.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/1917-455-eley-colt-new-service-revolver/).
This was the solution I developed for a similar situation with a Colt New Service in .455 Eley. The rear face of the cylinder had been machined to accept moon clipped ACPs and there was too much head space for .45 Colt cartridges.

[ReloaderFred]

I know of one SP101 that was rechambered to 9x23 Winchester. It's accurate and powerful. I was considering rechambering one of my Blackhawk 9x19 cylinders to 9x23, but haven't gotten around to it, yet.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[DeanWinchester]

I have wondered if a short .38 spec case would not work in a 9mm revolver. Have you tried priming an empty case and seeing if it will pop in your gun?


I don't HAVE a 9mm revolver. I was just letting my mind wander.

[Jim]

I don't let mine. It does it without my permission.

[KYCaster]

When you shorten 38 Spl brass substantially, you have to remember that the brass gets thicker near the web and may not accept a .358+ boolit without bulging. Using wadcutter brass will eliminate that problem.

I let my mind wander and it never came back!

Jerry

[NHlever]

For me, the idea of a 9mm, or even 45 ACP in a revolver are mostly ways of making brass easier to find. :D I have been tempted a couple of times to rechamber cylinders for my single action to .38 Special, or .45 Schofield, etc. to avoid the carbon buildup, extra boolit jump, and cleaning issues resulting from using shorter cases in long chambers. I notice that Freedom arms seems to agree with me. That also makes light, and heavy loads using the same cast boolit easier to identify. I have mostly had the 45 Colt, and .45 ACP convertable revolvers, and always seemed to end up shooting both calibers at about the same velocity, and usually ended up not shooting the ACP cylinder all that much. Often though, the ACP cylinder was the more accurate because of tighter chamber dimensions.

[DeanWinchester]

Ky caster, I checked the dummy I made up and the diameter at the mouth is just fine using the Federal brass. It's the diameter at the base that's going to be sloppy and the rim thickness, both of which peidmont pointed out.

It's possible however unlikely that they could be fire formed to the right diameter but the rim thickness is the catch. Oh well, just a good reason to not invest in another gun I don't need. Invest that money in the ones I already have.

[bhn22]

Why not just buy moon clips made for the 45 Colt brass & be done with it?

http://www.moonclips.com/cart/shopdisplaycategories.asp?id=49&cat=S%26W+Moonclips




For what it's worth, here's an OPTION (http://fgsp.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/1917-455-eley-colt-new-service-revolver/).
This was the solution I developed for a similar situation with a Colt New Service in .455 Eley. The rear face of the cylinder had been machined to accept moon clipped ACPs and there was too much head space for .45 Colt cartridges.

[DeanWinchester]

Because moon clips can't be topped off. If you fire two, you either shoot the rest and reload them all, or NOT shoot the rest and reload them ALL. The speed you get from moon clips is a great advantage, look at Jerry Miculek. It's also is a disadvantage in that you cannot replace just one round.

[ReloaderFred]

They used to make, and may still, 2 round moon clips for the .45 acp revolvers. They were made so the whole clip of 6 didn't have to be shot.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[bhn22]

Because moon clips can't be topped off. If you fire two, you either shoot the rest and reload them all, or NOT shoot the rest and reload them ALL. The speed you get from moon clips is a great advantage, look at Jerry Miculek. It's also is a disadvantage in that you cannot replace just one round.

I was a bit off topic when I posted that. It was intended as a suggestion for Jim.

[theperfessor]

As I see it, the advantage of the .45 AR and any possible 9mm rimmed case in a revolver would come when manufacturers come out with a gun with a shortened frame. So far all the revolvers available are designed for .38/.357 length or .44/.45 length cases. Extending the barrel back further into the frame doesn't make for any more compactness or lighter weight.

[DeanWinchester]

Extending the barrel back further into the frame doesn't make for any more compactness or lighter weight.

Not to mention the buttugly gap that leaves.

[Jim]

Honestly, I didn't know there are moon clips for .45 Colt. When I saw that they're $6 apiece, I like to fell over!
I don't shoot that old revolver very much. The wire snap rings work fine for the limited use it gets, so I'll just stick with that.