Saying hi and how i think i can be of service

[u.p. north]

A little intro of myself. I have been reloading for a little while.



Thank you,
u.p.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Welcome Tim.
I concur, this is a great site.
I'd love to see a photo of your swaging press.
if you do get to posting photos,
close ups of the linkage and bushings/bearings would be great.
Jon

[arjacobson]

Hello- if you can come up withgood sets of reasonably priced swage dies(that you don't have to wait months for) They would sell like hot cakes... It's a shame in this day and age that skilled workers cannot keep jobs. Look at all the lawyers in a phone book and then look up machine shops...very sad...

[u.p. north]

so far from what the few replies have been and what i have seen. dies are going to win hands down. what sizes and what style dies would you like to be seen made. i need to know this and what style press would they work the best in. thank all of you so far but keep the replies coming.

[blaser.306]

The short answer is any cal. diam that people shoot ! Myself I would like to see .429 TC , .357 diam tc (truncated cone) .30 cal spitzer (.308) 6.5 mm spitzer and a few others as well In 5/8 24tpi thread to fit Dave Corbin's stuff !

[ktw]

Upper Peninsula of Michigan(Far west end bordering Hurley,Wis.)

Do you shoot at the Superior Range Sportsman's Club?

-ktw

[u.p. north]

Do you shoot at the Superior Range Sportsman's Club?

-ktw



No i don't shoot out there. My neighbor used to be on the Board of Directors at the Sportsman's Club.
thanks,
u.p. north (tim)


Merry Christmas :)

[arjacobson]

swage dies-45acp-357/38-40-44-30 cal-223-etc-etc

[MIBULLETS]

From a quick look through posts, there has been a lot of interest in the dies to make 224 bullets from 22 rimfire bass. So you would need the jacket former, core swage, core seating die, and the point forming die.

Lot of interest in 30 caliber too, and always 9mm, .357, .44, and .45.

Sounds like your current press will accept RCE dies, others use the 5/8" 24 for Dave Corbin S presses as I do, and many guys here are using dies that would work in a standard reloading press, which would also work in your press with an adapter for a RDBS style shell holder.

Nice to see some more Michigan guys here, although most of us are trolls that live below the great bridge.

[torker]

Welcome Tim, There is alot of information on this site. The gentleman here are quite helpful on many issues. I have learned alot here. As for your press, I would be interested in seeing some pics. I did see one pic on your old post. Feel free to ask questions. The swaging dies are a much needed item. BT does good work on his set-ups. Again Welcome aboard...

[torker]

Cadillac MI. (six months out of the year)

[MIBULLETS]

Add another one. Midland, MI for me.

[Rock]

From a quick look through posts, there has been a lot of interest in the dies to make 224 bullets from 22 rimfire bass. So you would need the jacket former, core swage, core seating die, and the point forming die.

Lot of interest in 30 caliber too, and always 9mm, .357, .44, and .45.

Sounds like your current press will accept RCE dies, others use the 5/8" 24 for Dave Corbin S presses as I do, and many guys here are using dies that would work in a standard reloading press, which would also work in your press with an adapter for a RDBS style shell holder.


I agree completely. It would be nice to see a substantial increase in annual production of swaging dies.

[mr mom]

bridgman mi here ... as for a press i have an old herters 9 ton press. it was for 3/4 in dies . i got it with some kind of dies for making 45/70 bullets. i took the press to work and had it drilled and tapped to 7/8x14. works realy good

[BwBrown]

Waiting lists for both dies and presses and press accessories are too long. It is a needy market - maybe not on a huge mass production level - but a talented machinist could be every bit as busy as he or she wished.

Best advice would be to be sure your press can use "their" dies, and vice-versa.

Compatibility and interchangeability would be the overwhelming requirements!

I wish you the best, may this coming new year be a real positive turn-around for you! Please put my name in your contact list as you come up with products. I'm new enough in this swaging obsession, that I need at least one of nearly everything,
Bob

[fivegunner]

glad to see you posting Tim. I live in LOWELL 14 miles east of Grand Rapids:cbpour: :swagemine:

[Wayne Smith]

I'm just getting set up with the capacity to swage - haven't done it yet. Will be using a Hollywood single stage that uses the CH4D bolt based shell holder mount. Are you familiar with these? I'm thinking that a base for swaging could be made that would simply replace that unit. These would be useful in this unit but also in the CH4D/Bair H presses.

My initial interests would be in .25 and 7mm. I'm assuming I would have to use either tubing/gas check or premade extruded cases for these.

Any advice/education will be welcome!

[Jim_Fleming]

+one on what this post says, about swaging dies...

I'm interested in both dies and a press...

Also, Tim, welcome to the best damn Boolit Board on the net.



Hello- if you can come up withgood sets of reasonably priced swage dies(that you don't have to wait months for) They would sell like hot cakes... It's a shame in this day and age that skilled workers cannot keep jobs. Look at all the lawyers in a phone book and then look up machine shops...very sad...

[a.squibload]

Welcome to THE site.

I've been to Mackinaw Island as a kid, coasted down the big hill on a rental bike.[smilie=w:
That's MI, right?

Take an idea from commercial presses and make an insert so
more than one thread size can be used.
Never thought about a press in kit form (as mentioned in other thread),
that's interesting.

I'd like to see pics too!

[Jailer]

Wow, lots of MI peeps just on this one thread.

I would think a relatively inexpensive press would be a great idea. Also You might want to see if you could collaborate with BTSniper and maybe provide the die blanks and punches for him to make the internals for. He's modifying CH dies already so why not start with a clean slate and make them the way you want. You could provide just the things he needs and nothing more and maybe even be able to pass the savings along to the end buyer.

Of course I'm basing this on pure speculation, since I have no idea what is involved in making these things. But hey if it could provide you some income while providing him with the materials he needs to make his products why not?

[u.p. north]

Got a price on raw steel to my door $175 per press.Can do better price wise on enough material for 12 presses. I decided on two kits assembled and not assembled , both ways the press will be test assembled by me. Also would be just primed or oiled.
thank you guys for all your input so far
all you guys are excellent and just have a little patience.

thanks,
u.p. north


also the press threads in the top plate and ram could be custom made for you, and a few other changes.

[scrapcan]

Up North,
I will dig in my inbox to see if I can come up with the contact info for a fellow member that was a die maker for one of the bullet makers for a while. He was working on a set of dimensioned drawings for 22 caliber dies similar to the rcbs or Biehler and Astles dies. A quick pm to see if he got his plans done for dies.

I think the ability to supply affordable quality steel dies would be a big help. Also if you have the know how and resources to built a jacket maker, you could sell jackets also. You might give Larry Blackmon a call and discuss the pitfalls of the business with him.

[Fat-beeman]

hey up north
I have looked far and wide for spizer or pointed bullet molds and ideas on making some? or cheap way to swage them?
I use 6mm 277 30 cal 35 cal
Don

[scrapcan]

Here is a link to the thread about drawings for swage dies.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=30980


i also posted a few documents back in old posts that might be of help. I have a corbin csp-1 that uses 5/8x24 dies if you need measurements.

[u.p. north]

Up North,
I will dig in my inbox to see if I can come up with the contact info for a fellow member that was a die maker for one of the bullet makers for a while. He was working on a set of dimensioned drawings for 22 caliber dies similar to the rcbs or Biehler and Astles dies. A quick pm to see if he got his plans done for dies.

I think the ability to supply affordable quality steel dies would be a big help. Also if you have the know how and resources to built a jacket maker, you could sell jackets also. You might give Larry Blackmon a call and discuss the pitfalls of the business with him.

That is very good of you to do this for me. I am researching the dies and from what i have found out the lower priced dies are not hardened, anyone correct me here if i am wrong. I have been looking into making them from tool steel (die body, point former, etc. ) i am about 90% certain i will have no problems making the .30 cal and larger dies and accessories, this is about three weeks to a month out. Main thing is i am not going to sell junk. The main thing i ask guys is just have a little patience as i am going to take my time at this. so it can be done in the highest quality that i have learned to make things to. that is working in tenths to a half of a thousanths tolerance.
thanks,
u.p north

[Daywalker]

The lower priced dies, ch4d you might be speaking of, is made out of 12L14 stock. After they are turned and bored out and then finished , they are carbon nitrated. Yea they have to be hardened or they will not last long.

[Jim_Fleming]

Tim, I do have a suggestion/request...

Do you have a way to "guess-estimate" the cost of the entire press yet? As far as I'm concerned that's the bottom line, I'd prefer to see.

Standard reloading dies are threaded (as you VERY likely know) 7/8-14. What a lot of folks might not realize is that's 7/8's National Fine thread. I'd also suggest keeping your threads and adapters in the standard S.A.E. style and forms. (Society of Automotive Engineers)

Thanks, Sir,

[Dframe]

Using a Corbin Sea Girt press here.

[u.p. north]

bdbullets please check your private messages.

[warf73]

Would like to see pics of the press before I would say ya.
As for dies I'm interested in .475" dies for my new pistol.
Something along the lines of CH4D die set with core die and foruming die (truth be know just a foruming die will probly work).

[mr mom]

u.p. north . im alway looking for a job in gods country !!!!! but then i would be closer to the kids ????
i think you might want to open a shop a little farther west , say bergland !!!! or better yet merryweather !!! they do have a nice bar there .....

[u.p. north]

u.p. north . im alway looking for a job in gods country !!!!! but then i would be closer to the kids ????
i think you might want to open a shop a little farther west , say bergland !!!! or better yet merryweather !!! they do have a nice bar there .....

mr mom
must be the hoop en holler ey.
thanks,
u.p. north

[BwBrown]

"Got a price on raw steel to my door $175 per press.Can do better price wise on enough material for 12 presses. I decided on two kits assembled and not assembled , both ways the press will be test assembled by me. Also would be just primed or oiled." [end-quote]

Tim,
As others have said, final price is important information, but I would like to be on the list for a not assembled or painted press.
Bob

[u.p. north]

Finally got some better pictures. I will be adding the price soon. I am thinking primed or not primed, and assembled or non-assembled. Non-assembled would help on shipping for size of package. Also the guide plate, and mounting plate that the ram moves through would all have oilite bushings. The hole in the ram and connecting links would also have oilite bushings, or for another $90.00 approx. you could go with roller bearings in these pivot points. I would think all presses either assembled or not would come with all screws and nuts. This press weighs about 70 lbs. and shipping would be paid by buyer. All steel plate is 1" thick, handle is 1" dia. and will have a 45 deg. bend. The chromed guide rods are 1" diameter and the ends of the rods will be threaded. I will make up a more formal order sheet for your order with the different options, like thread sizes for dies and so on. The price is a hard one cause a have had quite a few different suggestions that would help save money and also options that would add money. I am going to work on the price.


thank you,
u.p. north (tim)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=461&pictureid=3092

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=461&pictureid=3097http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=461&pictureid=3099

[BT Sniper]

Looking good. I'll certainly be following your progress.

BT

[sargenv]

OMG! That thing is massive.. I love it.. though in my case I may not have any room for it.. I do think there would be enough people here that would be happy to get one to make it worth your while..

[BwBrown]

Hey Tim, Looks GREAT!

One more feature that many will want is a slotted ram and spring similar to ( but certainly not copied [smilie=1: ) the photo below to facilitate the ejector function of most H and many S style dies.

Bob

[u.p. north]

BW,
i am waiting to put the slot in. also the support plate across the front of the arms.I had to get the snow off of the shop roof and my mothers house with the help on my 16 yr. old, rain in the forecast hoping for not much of that.

[BwBrown]

"I had to get the snow off of the shop roof and my mothers house "

A lot of that going around. 50 to 100 miles in every direction from us had 2 feet or more. We had a few flurries, total of 1/2 inch. While a normal winter here can run over 12 feet total, we lucked out this time.
Bob

[ANeat]

Looks good Tim,

I wouldnt worry about roller bearings, with bronze bushings at every moving point the press is nice and smooth.
I cant imagine it would ever wear out but in the case if a person needed to replace a bushing it would be a pretty easy procedure.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h165/aneat/Swage/DSC01173.jpg

[Hammer]

I have been sying for months there is room for more die makers. You may be the answer to our prayers!

I can't wait to see what you develop. Keep searching this site and you will find a Vendor Sponsor area and a sales area to post your goodies..

There is a wealth of information in this forum and several others.

Hope you had a Merry Christmas and a very prosperous New Year to you!!!!!!

Ed

[warf73]

I like the press let me know the details when you can.

Thanks Warf

[u.p. north]

The price i came up with so far is in the neighborhood of $650. I have read many different ways all of you would want one built. The best thing is private message me your phone number(this of course is a non-commitment thing) and i could give you a call back and discuss your wants. The wait on these presses like i said could be 1 to 4 weeks. But i would get it to you when i told you it is coming to you if i need to work later into the night.



I can say one thing a lot of time is put into building a press like this. This press is built heavier than other presses and the wait time is not as long. I am searching a few different sources for better prices.


Thanks,
Tim (u.p. north)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=461&pictureid=3092

[bdbullets]

I talked to Tim last night on the phone about his press and possibly some dies. I enjoyed our conversation and learned a lot more about what he doing and his ideas for the press. If everything goes right for me ( waiting for the last tests to come back on on my leg, so far so good)I will be sending him a money order as soon as he tells me to for one of his presses. From our conversation I think his press will be better than the other guys by a long shot AND NO SIX+ MONTHS OF WAITING. If your interested in his press and dies send him your phone number and he will call you.

[RP]

Iam would love a set of dies to make 224 dia bullets for less than corbins 800.00 bucks.

[u.p. north]

had to start cutting some material today on the saw. so i had some spare time to start on making some dies. making a set for my .45 . will give updates as i progress. also am drawing up some plans for a few ideas i have for these presses. anybody interested in a press give me a p.m. or email with a contact number and i will call you.

Also "bdbullets" thank you very much for the kind words. i wish you well, and am sure everything will be allright with you. i look forward to hearing from you this weekend, take care.
Thank you all,
u.p. north (tim)

[jixxerbill]

That is very good of you to do this for me. I am researching the dies and from what i have found out the lower priced dies are not hardened, anyone correct me here if i am wrong. I have been looking into making them from tool steel (die body, point former, etc. ) i am about 90% certain i will have no problems making the .30 cal and larger dies and accessories, this is about three weeks to a month out. Main thing is i am not going to sell junk. The main thing i ask guys is just have a little patience as i am going to take my time at this. so it can be done in the highest quality that i have learned to make things to. that is working in tenths to a half of a thousanths tolerance.
thanks,
u.p north

cheap ones might not be but , well , thats cause they are cheap ^^...they just made to work on a standard reloading presses which dont normally make the pressure that swage presses are made for....so not too much concern for a die exploding (unless your doing something they were not ment to do ??)<----and people are ....good dies are made from metals that can be air oil or water quenched to a specific hardness and also to achieve better wear resistance......i myself use 4140 prehard for my dies machines pretty well and has rc of around 25-30 if memory serves me correctly....but i wouldnt sell them to anyone just because everyone is sue happy now-a-days.....if a die was to explode under 60k plus pressure, well u get the picture ?? just my 2 cents and to warn others of there could be impending doom !!??

[u.p. north]

([QUOTE=jixxerbill;1105568]cheap ones might not be but , well , thats cause they are cheap ^^...they just made to work on a standard reloading presses which dont normally make the pressure that swage presses are made for....so not too much concern for a die exploding (unless your doing something they were not ment to do ??)

I will reply to this later. This is one of the many things I have been checking on.

[Buckshot]

if a die was to explode under 60k plus pressure, well u get the picture ?? just my 2 cents and to warn others of there could be impending doom !!??

.............The dies I made for myself are simply 12L14, and unhardened. That would be a commercial no-no, but for me and after several hundred boolits (38-55, 58 cal Minie', & re-striking for 38 S&W) they're still perking along fine, and it machines so nice. I'm planning on making a die (if I can find the time) to make slugs for my Rem RB .43 Spanish and another for the 577-450.

http://www.fototime.com/4E6A51927B56C9E/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/6DD15BDBE5D31B1/standard.jpg

LEFT The Form die set, swaged core and final slug. There is also a core bleed die set to go with it. RIGHT Some swaged boolits from the die, 272 gr solids, 305gr HP's.

So far as a die "Exploding"? I don't think so. The pressure is applied so gradually that if a die was to fail it certainly wouldn't be a catastrophic event. No explosions, sorry. Most likely the die would crack, the pushrod would fail, or possibly the die would bulge and that would be about it. I would have no personal issue in making swage dies for others IF I could make them to accepted commercial tolerances. However I cannot, and would not feel justified in doing so, unless a half thou or a bit less was fine and EXACT nose forms weren't expected. Besides that, I have no commercially acceptable means to harden them.

Lathework is fairly commonly done to a half thousandth or a bit better by even hobby machinists (like me) and on the lathes most of us use, that's pretty decent work. Lets be very honest here in that the 'rough' die work is done on a lathe. The 'Fine' work to bring an internal bore to a tenth or better is more the pervue of grinding and then honing. You don't produce flatwork on your Bridgeport to a tenth (unless its small and you're VERY lucky). In production after visiting the mill, it goes to the surface grinding & polishing shop to be finished.

The other issue with creating dies besides the comparatively simple action of boring the cylindrical part is the nose profile. Again for me, creating dies for myself and using my caveman grinding tools, if I hit CLOSE to what I want, I'm content. Don't try to shuffle that off onto a customer that has speced a 1.7 radius ogive :-) Eyeballing it ain't gonna make it, so unless you have the wallet for a tool grinder capable of radial and tangetal radius grinding, you'll have to buy your spoons form an outfit that does.

http://www.fototime.com/A7FCD0C7C32B712/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/FBC4A50229228CB/standard.jpg

LEFT A few of my ho-made profile tools. RIGHT A closeup of the lefthand tool in the left photo. It took me half a day, a few minutes here and there to get it like I wanted it, and it was a real battle to not try to 'make it better' :-) For me I was tickled, especially knowing "From Whense it Came"! It forms the nose for 58 cal Minie' boolits.

I'm not trying to be negative about making swage dies. Making the swage presses for sale and in a timely fashion will be a great service. But producing swage dies to the tolerances normally associated with them (and it's NOT to a half thou) plus the desired nose forms is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish entirely. Possibly there is a grinding & honing place they can be farmed out to after being lathe turned?

................Buckshot

[MaxJon]

Hello swagers,casters, and reloaders here is a little about myself. I am married (22 years now) have a older adult son on his own, and a sixteen year old son at home with us . I lost my job a while back due to a permanent shut down. In our area here in Upper Michigan (yes i am a Yooper ) it is very hard to find a job especially in the tool and die/ machining industry. I have started looking into other sources of income. I came across this site as i was looking for work to quote in the punching baffle industry. I happened to type in swaging and that is how i ended up here. That is when i noticed what B.T. Sniper was starting to do. I think it was a while later I came across Aneats start at building his home made press. I had a part time job this past summer doing carpentry work with a friend of mine. Now it is winter, so I can't do the carpentry work. I have my own equipment so i started to build a press, similar to the one Aneat was building, and from what i understand Mattm drew up. These gentleman deserve some credit in this adventure i took on . I had to change a few things in their design to suit the needs of a friend. I finished the press, he came over with his reloading dies so we could do a test run. Everything lined up perfectly. He was very impressed on how smooth and efficently everything worked. He is seriously thinking of buying one of these from me. I have been in the machining industry for about twenty two years and am planning on staying in it. My plans are to start making some of this reloading/swaging equipment and to keep doing it. I think i can offer a very good quality product at a reasonable price in a timely fashion. SO IF YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS OR NEEDS PLEASE FEEL FREE TO GET A HOLD OF ME.

Sorry about such a long thread but it was decided i should do a little intro of myself. So what i am trying to say is, I am here for the long run and i hope i can help some of you. Also becoming a vendor sponsor on this site is a goal. I have spent a lot of time and learned so much in a short time here on this great Cast Boolits web site.



Thank you,
u.p. north (tim)

Yeah Welcome Tim!
This really is an awesome site! I like you have gained a wealth of knowledge in the past 12 months from this site!! ENJOY!!!!
BB03

[u.p. north]

Hoping you all had a safe and Happy New Year. May this New Year be better for all of us.
Thanks,
U.P. North

[jixxerbill]

ill have to agree to disagree with u buckshot on the exploding of the dies...i hope it never happens to anyone but when u cam-over with the handle on the press it makes alot of pressure very quickly. but thats my opinion so we disagree i guess...but thanks for all your photos buckshot ive made several dies using your ideas.. the spoon cutters were very helpfull making my die to roundover copper tubing for use as jackets!

[BT Sniper]

Why the doom and gloom Jix? Great thing about so called " cheap" dies is that if one should "explode" it costs less to replace. I was hoping this would just pass over but...... we don't need to scare anyone, it is bad for the hobby.

I have broke two so called cheap dies. The last one was on purpose to an extent. I was exerting a LOT of force to see just how much I could make a solid base of brass jacket form into a boat tail. There was no explosion and certainly no danger. Simply cracked the die. You would not even know it is broke looking at the die now.

First die that broke on me was my fault too. A large buldge that formed on my base punch after severial thousand bullets formed. I had incorectly attempted to heat treat the base punch and messed it up by actually making it softer. No longer do that any more. Well it was a wedge that split the die like a banana. Again no explosion. I did not even know it had broke till severial bullets later.

I know of one other die I have seen broke. A corbin 22 point forming die. It didn't explode either to my knowledge. Made two nice halves actually.

I replaced each one my "cheap" die bodies for $57, reused all the internials and have made severial thousand more bullets with it obviously getting my money back. How much do suppose it would cost to replace a Corbin?

Moral of story.... I knew I was appling to much pressure. Anyone that has broke a die may say the same thing. When used corretly any die will be quite safe in my oppinion.

Swage On!

BT

[Radio Flyer]

I'm not trying to be negative about making swage dies. Making the swage presses for sale and in a timely fashion will be a great service. But producing swage dies to the tolerances normally associated with them (and it's NOT to a half thou) plus the desired nose forms is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish entirely. Possibly there is a grinding & honing place they can be farmed out to after being lathe turned?

................Buckshot

Is there not a compromise point?

If an enterprising person can make serviceable dies that are within useable tolerances would that not be a marketable product?

So long as the customer knows and the price reasonable for the product?

Lets be honest, the CH4D dies are not Corbin dies... but the dies make quality shootable bullets that will compare well (if not superior) to factory jacketed bullets and at a very reasonable price.

We could use a source for .308 6s and 8s, .224 6s, and .355, .452 and others based on the Ted Smith/Corbin M dies that are a step up in production flexibility from CH4D.

If the bullet comes out as .308 (plus or minus ? what?) would most of us mind so long as we know what we can expect and judge the price on the merits?

Just to check I pulled out the tools and measured the results - Corbin of course the least variation and best formation, with the factory and CH4D about the same (BTW not any of the three was I capable of finding measurement variations with an inexpensive digital caliper the mitutoyo not much better it took a micrometer)

[MIBULLETS]

I agree with you Radio Flyer. Plus the only way for a guy to get really good is by making a lot of dies. I'm sure there are a lot of things to learn that could be somewhat unique to bullet swaging dies, like how big does the hole need to be if I want the bullet to be .3080, made with alloyed lead instead of pure lead, or copper tubing instead of brass jackets. To be able to make a lot of dies fast you need to know that up front. People who make their own have time to hone then check and hone some more. For the most part we can get away with these changes but it pays for a die maker to know how things will react. I am no machinist and maybe this is nonsense, if so disregard it as such.

[Buckshot]

Is there not a compromise point?

Certainly. Each person has an idea of what they'll accept, and what they won't. The compromise point is between the two.

If an enterprising person can make serviceable dies that are within useable tolerances would that not be a marketable product?

Again, you bet! But the sticking point: ".............. serviceable dies that are within useable tolerances................. ". Different folks are going to expect different things. However I believe that few are going to accept an accuracy of .0005". Most people expect accuracy in a swage die of well beyond that. A well made boolit mould will deliver that or better.

So long as the customer knows and the price reasonable for the product?

Sure, and that is the meaning of the statement, "You get what you pay for".

Lets be honest, the CH4D dies are not Corbin dies... but the dies make quality shootable bullets that will compare well (if not superior) to factory jacketed bullets and at a very reasonable price.

We could use a source for .308 6s and 8s, .224 6s, and .355, .452 and others based on the Ted Smith/Corbin M dies that are a step up in production flexibility from CH4D.

If the bullet comes out as .308 (plus or minus ? what?) would most of us mind so long as we know what we can expect and judge the price on the merits?

The Lyman/RCBS lube-size dies, and the Lee type push through dies I make are spec'd 'Nominal to +.0003" with WW type alloy. I supply a proof slug with each die. I could also possibly offer dies at a couple bucks less with a tolerance of say, -.0002" to +.0003" of nominal for a half thou total. Some might be happy with that, but most likey, more would opt to pay a few dollars more.

Just to check I pulled out the tools and measured the results - Corbin of course the least variation and best formation, with the factory and CH4D about the same (BTW not any of the three was I capable of finding measurement variations with an inexpensive digital caliper the mitutoyo not much better it took a micrometer)

Just like the saying, "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" you could substitute accuracy in that statement. You can pay $69 for a bottom line Italian tang sight, or you can pay $400 for an Axtell tang sight. Cost of materials for both is probably a wash, so you're paying for precision fit and accurate repeatable accuracy.

I'm certainly NOT trying to rain on anyone's parade who wants to make swage dies. Very possibly there is a market for them with accuracy of ".0005" or less", however I really think that most people buying swage dies pretty much expect accuracy a bit better then that.

................Buckshot

[deltaenterprizes]

I would be interested in a light weight 6MM/.243 nose forming die and a light weight .308 nose forming die that were within .0005''.
I can make the others but I am having trouble with the small internal radius.

I would think W-1 drill rod would make decent dies that are able to be hardened if needed to be done and also wear well if not hardened.

These could be made to fit the Herters 9 ton press, a standard reloading press or a Corbin "S" press.

[warf73]

Has anyone contacted CH4D or Corbin to see what tolerances they run?
If I order a .400" forming die is it .3998" or .4001( +.0001 or - .0002 @ 65 degrees) .
Do they use the 65* as there base line temp. when measuring the dies in there QA area? I don't remember the formula but for every 1 degree materal X will grow or contract by .000X".

[Radio Flyer]

Very possibly there is a market for them with accuracy of ".0005" or less", however I really think that most people buying swage dies pretty much expect accuracy a bit better then that.

................Buckshot

Yes and no...

I would be very interested... one of the secrets most do not realize is that when a bullet jumps from the cartridge neck to the rifling it is again “swaged” to the rifling and +/- .0005 is better than we can ever expect from factory mass produced bullets.

I am looking at this from an advocate position, and the reality of price and sales.

I am trying to be reasonable here, I have at least 8 sets of Corbin dies, to buy them new now would be 9 to 12K - 12k and wait at least 24 months for each one.

As it stands now I would LOVE to get some M type dies for my series II press that did not cost more than my car is worth now...

I would like to add to my .355 collection, and would like a point forming die in 5 or 6 s for my .308 collection, and I am not willing to wait 24 months for that, I would rather just use my 8s as is...

I have my CH4D in .355 and lets be honest it is not Corbin level stuff but I love the price and I just finished a run of 500 hollow points for .355 to load up...

If CH4D can do it for 129 bucks a set, someone should be able to produce a “halfway set” that fits a Mighty Mite press or Series II and make a copy press for less than 400 bucks (the three die set) and keep them in stock.

I am done with the crazy benchrest crowd, I want to shoot and I would like to see swaging make a comeback, good priced dies giving reasonable results would bring in some new guys and I think that would be great.

The worst part about Corbin (and I love both the brothers) is that money is tied up for two years often and no market outside of a very specific type of customer will tolerate that... I want new guys and reasonable dies that don’t cost an arm and a leg, it would increase experimentation and the more participants the more available materials will become.

Simple stuff like jacket availability (I would even love to get some copper flashed steel jackets to play with) lead wire, and support equipment would help us “lead smashers”...

[BwBrown]

Neither I, or any of my guns, would probably ever notice a variation of any less than 5/10,000" I'd be interested in seeing random samples of commercial bullets, as well as specialty 1,000 yard bench rest fodder, and their average deviation. With no data, I would not be surprised if the over the counter stuff would show a variation of much greater tolerance in roundness and diameter. They're even a grain and more apart in eight.

I have some bench rest 1,000 yard buddies whose equipment and skills blow me away, and leave me in awe. However, that genre is way beyond my means.

I vote for reasonable quality in available quantity. A .0005" die in the hand is worth two .000005" dies on the waiting list.

I never considered myself to be an impatient person, but to take my money and make me wait a couple years or more just makes me twitch!
Bob

[MIBULLETS]

Dave from CH4D told me that the spec on a .357 swage die was that the min size is .357 and the max is .358. So, by that I am guessing they hold to .001 , most are probably better than that but that is the spec he gave me.

Now Corbin states in his literature that bullets of the exact diameter to slightly larger than normally shoot the best in most firearms. We are talking .0001 to around .0005 over sized. Most loads will not show increased pressure signs with the larger bullet either.

[Radio Flyer]

Neither I, or any of my guns, would probably ever notice a variation of any less than 5/10,000" I'd be interested in seeing random samples of commercial bullets, as well as specialty 1,000 yard bench rest fodder, and their average deviation. With no data, I would not be surprised if the over the counter stuff would show a variation of much greater tolerance in roundness and diameter. They're even a grain and more apart in eight.

I have some bench rest 1,000 yard buddies whose equipment and skills blow me away, and leave me in awe. However, that genre is way beyond my means.

I vote for reasonable quality in available quantity. A .0005" die in the hand is worth two .000005" dies on the waiting list.

I never considered myself to be an impatient person, but to take my money and make me wait a couple years or more just makes me twitch!
Bob

This wait seems to be the general problem, if in stock it is obvious the price is not that much of a deterrent.

I need to go back to my Corbin .308 bullets and measure the dies and consistency (I need to go down to my buds shop and borrow some better measurement tools).

What I can tell you is that the dial and digital calipers could not measure variation from bullet to bullet in the Corbin or the CH4D produced bullets, my tools are just not that high of a quality to start to measure .000+/- (as in better than .00015 if even that) the factory bullets all .355 as the CH4D.

So if we could get a die set that could hold from .0000 to .0005 you could produce bullets as good as or better than any factory offering...

I am good at that point, I think that I could even live with .3555 to .3560 and for my personal use I would be happy (targeting .3555).

[jixxerbill]

Why the doom and gloom Jix? Great thing about so called " cheap" dies is that if one should "explode" it costs less to replace. I was hoping this would just pass over but...... we don't need to scare anyone, it is bad for the hobby. the only thing that scares me is u telling people its ok to use ww lead to swage bullets in a reloading press with your beefed up parts !
I have broke two so called cheap dies. The last one was on purpose to an extent. I was exerting a LOT of force to see just how much I could make a solid base of brass jacket form into a boat tail. There was no explosion and certainly no danger. Simply cracked the die. You would not even know it is broke looking at the die now.
im sure it didnt do more than crack 1) its 12L14 rofl it has the tensile strength of dog poo compared to steel that can be case hardened throughout 2)your reloading press does not make the pressure a swage press is capable of
First die that broke on me was my fault too. A large buldge that formed on my base punch after severial thousand bullets formed. I had incorectly attempted to heat treat the base punch and messed it up by actually making it softer. No longer do that any more. Well it was a wedge that split the die like a banana......same as above inferrior steel, compared. Again no explosion. I did not even know it had broke till severial bullets later.

I know of one other die I have seen broke. A corbin 22 point forming die. It didn't explode either to my knowledge....maybe find out ??. Made two nice halves actually.

I replaced each one my "cheap" die bodies for $57, reused all the internials and have made severial thousand more bullets with it obviously getting my money back. How much do suppose it would cost to replace a Corbin?

Moral of story.... I knew I was appling to much pressure. Anyone that has broke a die may say the same thing. When used corretly any die will be quite safe in my oppinion.....if thats the case then why dont u just buy a 20 ft stick of 3/4" cold rolled and make the dies from that ??? J/K J/K PLEASE DONT !!Swage On!

BT

good luck to you !!

[Jim_Fleming]

It's my opinion that Corbin probably tries to make his dies come out about .0002" big. I'm saying he very likely (when making a .357 bullet die he very likely tries to hit .3572" inches in diameter.

That's just an educated guess from a lifetime of machine work and shooting. Hmmm educated guesses, aren't they also called theories? ;-)

Jim




Dave from CH4D told me that the spec on a .357 swage die was that the min size is .357 and the max is .358. So, by that I am guessing they hold to .001 , most are probably better than that but that is the spec he gave me.

Now Corbin states in his literature that bullets of the exact diameter to slightly larger than normally shoot the best in most firearms. We are talking .0001 to around .0005 over sized. Most loads will not show increased pressure signs with the larger bullet either.

[Radio Flyer]

It's my opinion that Corbin probably tries to make his dies come out about .0002" big. I'm saying he very likely (when making a .357 bullet die he very likely tries to hit .3572" inches in diameter.

That's just an educated guess from a lifetime of machine work and shooting. Hmmm educated guesses, aren't they also called theories? ;-)

Jim

That would be hypothesis... ;)

In the general conversation we are dealing with several issues.

Supply and demand (at this point lack of supply and I hope a rising demand)

Marketing (this includes pricing)

Craftsmanship and production (no one is going to say that Corbin does not make a premium product)

Fandom (I would fit in that category regardless of my past business - I love reloading and shooting)

I wish I could be confident that my tools are accurate enough to say .0000 accuracy I am even skeptical of .000...:-(

[Jim_Fleming]

Thank you for the correction, RF. Seriously.

I routinely work to about +.002 to -.002 on a daily basis, that helps, and often I have to work to right on the money... It comes with experience.

I'd like to see more supply, as it were, the Corbins aren't getting any younger on a daily basis, and personally I have no idea about Dave Corbin, but I have heard, from on here, that Richard Corbin is running a one (1) man shop.

I wish no one ill will by any stretch of the imagination, I'd just like to see the wealth get spread about a bit more, as most of us would.

RF, you've got an interesting blog, I like how you illustrated your holster modification, but I also don't wish to hijack this thread, it's not mine.



That would be hypothesis... ;)

In the general conversation we are dealing with several issues.

Supply and demand (at this point lack of supply and I hope a rising demand)

Marketing (this includes pricing)

Craftsmanship and production (no one is going to say that Corbin does not make a premium product)

Fandom (I would fit in that category regardless of my past business - I love reloading and shooting)

I wish I could be confident that my tools are accurate enough to say .0000 accuracy I am even skeptical of .000...:-(

[Radio Flyer]

Thank you for the correction, RF. Seriously.

I was just showing some nerd there...


I'd like to see more supply, as it were, the Corbins aren't getting any younger on a daily basis, and personally I have no idea about Dave Corbin, but I have heard, from on here, that Richard Corbin is running a one (1) man shop.

I wish no one ill will by any stretch of the imagination, I'd just like to see the wealth get spread about a bit more, as most of us would.

I think we are all on the same page here, we don’t want to see swaging disappear, we would all benefit from more participants and more suppliers for dies, jackets, wire, and more. I am admitting to “fandom” status, all swage is good swage [smilie=w:

I am very worried about the fact that the Corbin brothers are aging and not passing down the company, increasing diemakers and machinists so that prices could drop and supply would increase.


RF, you've got an interesting blog, I like how you illustrated your holster modification, but I also don't wish to hijack this thread, it's not mine.

Thanks, I just do what I do, unhindered, like a personal journal.

[scrapcan]

Interesting note on stress in dies. On should look at hoop and longitudinal stress and failure of thin and thick walled pressure vessels.

Interesting to note that most times they fail in longitudinal stress rather than hoop stress. Hoop is around, longitudinal is along.

Thus is the reason one sees dies split or firearm barrels for that matter.

[NoZombies]

My only addition to the thread is to correct the misuse of the term "case hardened"

Case hardening is, by definition, a surface treatment. Carbon migration can be measured at a depth of X .001" per minute at X temperature when everything is properly prepared. This is repeatable. The point of case hardening is to have a hardened surface while maintaining a malleable core.

The term is often misused when people mean "heat treated."

[Buckshot]

My only addition to the thread is to correct the misuse of the term "case hardened"

Case hardening is, by definition, a surface treatment. Carbon migration can be measured at a depth of X .001" per minute at X temperature when everything is properly prepared. This is repeatable. The point of case hardening is to have a hardened surface while maintaining a malleable core.

The term is often misused when people mean "heat treated."

...........Yup, too true. High carbon steel may be 'Through' hardened, ie: hard all the way across the section. Low carbon steel only hardens on it's surface due to heating in a carbon rich environment which inparts free carbon to the steel's surface. The M1 Garand reciever was forged 8620, a high alloy/low carbon steel which was then selectively surface/case hardened. The German Mauser actions were designed around forged low alloy/low carbon steel primarily due to the lack of readily available strategic alloys, especially in time of war. They were also selectively surface hardened to increase strength in the areas requiring it.

................Buckshot

[midnight]

Just ran across this thread. I live in S. Wisconsin but my brother is in Conover, WI, only about 10 mi from Land O Lakes. He is retired and a shooter and bullet caster. He did tons of machining at Chrysler in Kenosha before retiring. He has a big 3hp Millport mill with power feed, and an old SouthBend lathe from the 40s. He doesn't have a computer so PM me if if youwould like to contact him.

Bob

[u.p. north]

Hi guys,
Sorry I haven't been able to be here for some while. I had some personal things come up but all is well now. I am planning on starting on a number of presses this coming week for those of you that are interested. I am wondering if those of you that showed interest would please p.m. me. Once again I am very sorry about the inconvenience. If it would be not to much to ask let me know what threads you would need in the ram and top plate. I can customize to a certain point and make the needed bushings to adapt to your dies that you have already.
Thanks,
U.P.

[u.p. north]

Hi Guys,
Got a good start cutting up the material today for 4 presses. I have one of the four spoken for. If you are interested in a press let me know. I will update tommorrow with some pictures of the progress. The first four will be sold for $650 plus shipping to you. These will be not painted, and not assembled. But they will be test assembled. Once again either P.M. me or express your interest by giving a reply. Also you will receive the press within two weeks.


Thanks,
U.P.



link for picture of press below
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=461&pictureid=3092

[RANGER RICK]

Looks like a very nice heavy duty press. How does it compare to a Walnut Hill press ??
Thanks

RR

[u.p. north]

The plates on these are 1" thick. Toggle assembly is 1.5" square with .75" arms rosette welded and side welded for max strength. Toggle links are .5" thick. Ram is 1.5" solid 1045 tgp and guide rods are 1" solid chrome plated shaft. Top plate has 1.5"x12 t.p.i. hole and end of ram has 7/8"x14 t.p.i. . All holes are align bored to align everything parallel and perpendicular. Handle is solid cold rolled 1" diameter for maximum rigidity. These presses take quite a while to make and built to very precise tolerance. There is over 150 dollars alone in material in each press. I believe you would be getting a very good deal by purchasing this press and not with as long of a wait as the competition has. As for dies I am working on them also and am looking at something along a cheaper set of dies.I can customize these presses and also make adapters or other rams for your standard reloading presses. I have a full machine shop to do this .

Thanks,
U.P.

[scrapcan]

Oh also fogot to mention in the hoop and longitudinal stess calculations one has to deal with the smaller section of the die and calculate pressures based on those areas. You may not exceed the tensile strength on the driving band portion but could on the nose or the bleed holes in core die or LSWC die.

But again it will generally fail in the longitudinal stress direction and not in the hoop.

I have also been collecting literature on swaging for some time now and the common theme is what we all face and has been mentioned in this thread.

1) supply of acceptable ( this is an individual decison we each have to mull over) dies
2) lack of suppliers for those dies - for most there just is not enough profit in making and selling dies, it becomes a hobby of love that turns into more work than a hobbiest can get done, which leads to unhappy customers.
3) As shooters, casters, reloaders we are a group of cheap SOBs and expect the best for the absolute least amount of money.
4) Our lack of taking responsibility in our own actions and assuming the responsibility after said actions. In this I think about one who cracks a die and then cries foul on the die maker. Who was at the helm when the die cracked? That operator likely has very little in the way of formal education in failure analysis and thus the blame goes to an inferior product, instead of breaking down eact action taken and findign the real cause. Kind of like the 2 inch pipe wrench that broke due to a 4 foot cheater pipe being slid over the handle and then returning it to Sears for a replacment.

An interesting read on the above is the section in Discover Swaging, Chapter 32 page 254, by David R. Corbin that recounts a letter that was sent out by Biehler (Ray) and Aistles (Walt) Penned in July 1957 to their customers. Very interesting reading.

I would really like to see a supplier of equipment for this segment of our hobby that we could all afford, but I am afraid there are few people who consider doing this as a labor of love so the rest of us can also see it that way.

[PatMarlin]

I just got through finding and reading through this thread. I have so many thoughts on the subject, but now to tired to put them down ...:mrgreen:

There is a reason for the 2 year wait with Corbins.

There are different planet worlds- light years away between making a set of dies, and making dies to a spec tolerance, but then comes the big one- producing said dies, in spec, on a production level at a reasonable price and be able to ship within a few weeks and keep stock.

Buckshot tried to give a few clues here on this. Anyone who has tried to manufacture their own product soon learns a multitude of these lessons.

I don't know much about swaging, but when I see the presses and various dies required and the labor alone needed to manufacture them- Holy Cow! there's no surprise with the Corbin wait and cost.

To be able to spit out these dies at the acceptable quality and price, with the reasonable wait time you guys want, it would take some very high precision CNC equipment at a staggering investment for a one man shop to pull off, and produce.

Even if you had employees, with precision manual machines, or with a mix of manual and CNC the cost would be higher, and I bet the wait times still lengthy.

Add into the equation, the small market- minuscule compared to many others, the numbers start to look bleak.

So- this is why IMO the Corbins have made a living at chugging along with steep prices, and crazy long wait times- and with no one to take the reins when they are ready to retire.

Being a good tool and die machinist is one thing. Being able to produce the end product for market consistently and timely is the hard part.

Until you go through it, it's not easy to see all the steps required. It is a tremendous undertaking.

[PatMarlin]

And with that 2 bits of wisdom, I've got to get out in the shop, start the woodstove and get to work! ..:mrgreen:

[scrapcan]

Pat,

All of your comments are right on. The 1957 letter metnioned above said that B&A had a one year to 18 month back log at that time. I have info from Ted Smith of SAS that relayed he offered his die making phamplet to help alleviate some of the issues with this topic. I also spoke with a guy who knew him well and lived close by that said the same thing.

It is a very interesting topic and fun to boot. But a bit on the spendy side. And a bit of a steep learning curve to learn to do this on your own.

[PatMarlin]

Let me say I'm definitely not trying to rain on an idea or someone coming in and providing a product for us. It is a great thing, but just keep eyes wide open and go steady and slow and that way feelings don't get hurt from all involved.

The stress is overwhelming at times to be there for customers and make it happen. I have gone through hell the past 2.5 years, and only now is the pressure just slightly starting to lighten up. I started from scratch which makes it harder, but no matter what the same principals and pitfalls surface.

[PatMarlin]

There are other numerous details as well like processing orders, books, and keeping track of everything like email questions.

I spend on average 4 hours in the morning on emails while eating and coffee and resting my brain in between by posting here at CB. I spend at least 6 hours in the shop, and then 4 hours back on the computer in the evening with dinner.

Then folks wonder why I don't do business on the phone? Some get upset with that and leave in a huff even.. :mrgreen: Aside from us having lousy cell service in the mountains, if I answered the phone I would get absolutely nothing done.

Here it is past 10:00 am, and I'm still answering PM's and emails and still not finished. I'm also waiting for the shop to heat up, but there you go.

Another thing the guys that constantly ask about where their order is, have no idea what actually contributes to their darn order being delayed is all the UPDATE questions!

Some customers are horribly afflicted with being impatient. Thank god it's few, but you would be stunned at some folks. I just at some point have to ignore them until their order is done.

[7of7]

I have been over to Dave Corbin's shop, talked with him on a few occasions. He has about three or four employees.. but the finish work is what he says takes the most time. Honing out the inside of the die, and it is all done basically by hand with a machine, as in non outomated. The operator has to hone a little, measure, hone some more, measure.. and so on..
I think it would be great to go and be an apprentice.. for a while.. and learn how to do it.. as everyone says, he isn't getting any younger..

[u.p. north]

I think Aneat should step in here and let you guys know how long it takes to build a press. I think at $650 with about $175 in materials. This press is heavier duty than the competition and a little larger.
Thanks,
U.P.

[PatMarlin]

I have been over to Dave Corbin's shop, talked with him on a few occasions. He has about three or four employees.. but the finish work is what he says takes the most time. Honing out the inside of the die, and it is all done basically by hand with a machine, as in non outomated. The operator has to hone a little, measure, hone some more, measure.. and so on..
I think it would be great to go and be an apprentice.. for a while.. and learn how to do it.. as everyone says, he isn't getting any younger..

Would be awesome to see those guys work. Machine the die, then bring it up to spec by hand. That is some labor. I designed my dies to work well with bringing the spec up with the machines, CNC then second operations on manual machines and it still takes a lot of work. They can be polished (not necessary), but if I had to polish every die, or hone to spec I would not be in this business. No way.

You have to analyze, standardize, and develop every move and jig/fixture in shop production to save time and improve the final product, and then decide on tooling and suppliers. It takes an incredible amount of time. While not being a machinist, I had lots of experience in fabrication and production setup so I have been able to do this, but many folks would walk away and give up, or pay through the nose to someone else and financially be forced to give up. It just isn't that easy.

Enough of rambling. I don't get a chance to often to tell about this stuff, but I'll shut up now... :mrgreen:

What UP is offering is one hell of a deal. If I was going into swaging, I'd jump on his offer.

[7of7]

I think Aneat should step in here and let you guys know how long it takes to build a press. I think at $550 with about $175 in materials leaves $375 for machining and tooling. This press is heavier duty than the competition and a little larger. I have three presses started and i will let them go for $550 each you pay the actual shipping costs.
Thanks,
U.P.

I wasn't saying anything about your price.. It sounds expensive, but when you look at the labor, and everything that goes into making it, it is a very reasonable price. I paid $595 for my Corbins press.. and it appears smaller than yours. It is the dies that is the horse of a different color.. those are what takes a bit more time..

[u.p. north]

7of7 i am sorry if you feel i implied you were saying something about my price. I certainly was not saying anything of the sort. I thought you guys were having a hard time getting presses and dies in a timely fashion. I decided i would try to make the presses and dies for you's and offer them in a timely manner. I decided for now i would build a few presses to fill the need of a few of you. I have been working on the dies also and it is going well but slow. Polishing them out to a final size and to a good finish is very time consuming. The price is what it is going to be if you want a good set of dies (probably in the 600 to 800 dollar range). Maybe more depending on what the customer wants.
Thanks,
U.P.

[u.p. north]

Sorry about the above rant in my previous post. Here are some pictures i took of some in action machining. I need to sell the three i am making so if somebody wants one post a quick reply. I will try to take a few more pictures today.
Thanks,
U.P.

Top Plate in saw

Machining Top Plate square

Cutting off Base

Enough for now ("Time to get back to work")

[u.p. north]

Start off with the rough stock and hold .001" parallelism on the mill ,then surface grind to .0001" on the 4" x 9" top plate. This way everything is square and perpendicular to each other. That way you can call it a precision press.

[url=http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=91][img]http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_130864d6

Thanks,
U.P.

[PatMarlin]

What make of horizontal saw is that UP?

I have a big old Kalamazoo that looks like that. I don't use it right now as I don't have the shop space but it sure is a nice saw. All the stuff I need to cut now is just small diameter round stock to feed the CNC so a little 6x9 Chicom chopsaw does the job well tucked next to my Bridgeport.

[ANeat]

As far as the press it should compare to Dave Corbins Mega Mite which is $999.00 the last time I checked.

A lot of similarities to the Walnut Hill in the layout and die size, overall size and capacity is closer to the Mega Mite.

Kinda like a Walnut Hill press super sized

$550.00 is a bargain in my opinion. I sure wouldnt build them for that ;)

[u.p. north]

What make of horizontal saw is that UP?

I have a big old Kalamazoo that looks like that. I don't use it right now as I don't have the shop space but it sure is a nice saw. All the stuff I need to cut now is just small diameter round stock to feed the CNC so a little 6x9 Chicom chopsaw does the job well tucked next to my Bridgeport.



It is a kalamazoo 9a i believe. They are excellent horizontal cut off saws. I have a older craftsman commercial (horizontal) saw that takes up to 3" solid that i use for the smaller stuff. I wish they made a bigger one like that cause it sure cuts and you wouldn't believe it is from the 60's or early 70's .

Thanks,
U.p.

[u.p. north]

Aneat,

Thanks for the reply there isn't much money made at that price, if any hope to break even and make more than working at MC'Donalds. Your right on the price (guys you are getting a $1000 press for $650) i believe it is even better than the competition's. I am sure they don't surface grind or jig bore there holes in. I single point the threads in after boring and am thinking about cutting the last .005" out with a tap . This is to keep the threads nice and concentric. I think you guys should take this into consideration when you think about buying one from the competition. Also I can customize the sizes on the whole press to accommodate your needs.



Will try to get more pictures tommorrow.

[nicholst55]

Maybe I missed it, but what thread size dies will this press use?

[u.p. north]

Maybe I missed it, but what thread size dies will this press use?


The drawings call for 1.5x12t.p.i. in the top plate and 7/8"x14 t.p.i. in the ram. "But" any size threads i could put in for you. As I said before I can customize this press so other style dies can work for you. Also adapters can be made to accept different dies.
Thanks,
U.P.

[Doby45]

That is CRAZY, I bet you could swage kryptonite with that thing. Watch out Superman!!

[nicholst55]

I've decided to get one of these presses, after doing a little more research. This press looks over-engineered to me, which should make it very durable. I'll send u.p. north a PM to discuss things.

[u.p. north]

Got to the base plates today. Bored the two .500" holes bordering the 1.875" hole the ram slides thru. The three mounting holes are just drilled .500" for the mounting bolts to pass thru.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/130864d756e8cde12d.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=122)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/130864d756e9b88a41.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=123)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/130864d756eab9b718.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=124)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/130864d756ebfe4d9c.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=125)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/130864d756ecbc75f5.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=126)

[u.p. north]

What would be the interest in a smaller version of the same press (H design)I am making? One that would take ch4d dies with a auto-ejector on it. I would still offer the larger press also.

Thanks,
Tim


Maybe BtSniper will add his thoughts on this.

[u.p. north]

Machined the guide plates today. Two outer holes to 1.250" and the center hole to 1.500" to accept the ram.
Thanks,
U.P. Northhttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/130864d77e5916c947.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=142)

[MIBULLETS]

Looking good U.P....

[u.p. north]

I have got alot accomplished on these presses this week. Those that ordered them will be very pleased with how they are turning out. Looks like the end of next week i should be able to put in another steel order for the plate material. Please keep your orders coming!!!!!

[u.p. north]

Guys,
Pictures of machining the top plate. Two .500" slots, two .500" holes bored in, and center hole bored out for single point threading on the lathe. Was thinking of single point threading the 1.5" threads, then finish it off with a tap.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/130864d7b8355366a5.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=177)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/130864d7b836667388.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=178)

[u.p. north]

Figured I would post a picture of a finished press here.

Thanks,
U.P. North

[

[u.p. north]

Started squaring up a run of toggle bars today. Material came oversize so i cut them down to 1.500" square. Side milled the ends to a finished length of 12". Tomorrow should get the slots put in them and get the holes put in for the handles. Also have to drill and ream the six holes i put in for the rosette welding of the toggle arms.

Thanks.
U.P. North (Tim)

[u.p. north]

Picture I took on Friday of the toggle bar with slots milled in and holes drilled in it.
Should be able to get some more pictures tomorrow.
Thanks,
U.P. North

[Apache]

I see I'm gonna have to scrounge up some "mad money" soon!!!

You said something about a smaller press also? That would work for CH4D dies?

Between you and BT Sniper....y'all are gonna get me into trouble with the wife. LOL!

[ph4570]

u.p.

I just happened upon this thread. That is one massive machine. I have done enough machining to know how much work it is to create such a device. I am not into swaging but if I were I would be a customer for sure. Maybe some day. Your price is very reasonable in my opinion. Good luck with it.

[Spanners]

Is this S or M size? (in Corbin language)

[ANeat]

Its a sort of Walnut Hill.... plus sized close to the Mega Mite

Based off the plans available here http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=76514

[u.p. north]

Machined up some 1.5" x 12 T.P.I. to .875" x 14 T.P.I. adapters. These will adapt the ch4d and all other dies that are 7/8" x 14 thds. per inch to fit in the presses top plate that I am making. Next I am going to make a adapter for the Ram end to adapt to 5/8" threads and also other sizes so all other dies will work with this press. I single point thread the internal threads to keep everything nice and concentric.
Thanks,
U.P. North (Tim)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_130864d93b35cd34e3.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=383)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_130864d93b371e6c2b.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=384)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_130864d93b37f44ec8.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=385)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_130864d93b38b28ea7.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=386)

[MIBULLETS]

Nice Tim! I do have a question for you though. You mention the 5/8-24 adapter, I believe the inside of the ram is made to work with RCE dies and punches. If that is correct have you also planned to make an adapter punch so the the shorter and smaller diameter punches that go with the 5/8-24 threaded dies will work too?

RCE used to have a picture here but not now, but it gives a description.
http://rceco.com/MN.asp?pg=products&specific=123&from=36

[u.p. north]

MiBullets,

I think i will have to go with a 1" series of threads in the ram or do a little figuring to get the 5/8 threads to work. I think a adapter and then a adapter punch will work out. The only thing on the corbin dies what size is the end turned down to or is it threaded into the punch holder. I am not familiar with how the punches are set up on the regular corbin stuff. I think with the adapter I would need to make a longer punch. Might be easier just to make a new punch but then that would be more money. Another option would be putting the 5/8 threads in the end of the ram.

[ANeat]

I would hope someone getting one of these would be figuring on Walnut Hill dies. You can "adapt" down to the 5/8 threads of S dies but if you just put 5/8 threads (5/8-24 I think) then youre screwed if you ever want to use Walnut Hill dies (7/8-14)

Even adapting over to something like C&H swage dies and adding an ejector wouldnt be too much trouble

[MIBULLETS]

I agree ANeat, stay with the plan and adapt the press to a 5/8-24 die. The RCE style with 7/8-14 is a much stronger die and better suited to a press this powerful.

UP, I'm not sure if we are talking about the same punch. I am talking about the internal punch that fits into the ram under the die. Maybe you are too. Anyway, the adapter would be like an extension for the small Corbin punch so that it will work with the ejection system made for the longer RCE style dies.

[RANGER RICK]

What type of dies and or thread type will this press accept ??
Thanks

RR

[Utah Shooter]

.224 dies?

[u.p. north]

Top plate is threaded 1.5"x12 t.p.i. and an adapter is used to go down to 7/8"x14 t.p.i. . The ram is threaded 7/8"x14 t.p.i. and a adapter can be made to go down to any thread from that or a shell holder style adapter can be made also. I am working on a auto-ejection system that will work with ch4d and other style dies of that like.
Thanks,
U.P. North

[u.p. north]

Figured I would show the boring of the hole in the pivot end of the Ram. I try to bore all the holes to keep them straight and square to the travel axis of the press. This is a little extra work but well worth it in the end with the performance of the press I think.
Thanks,
U.P. North

[u.p. north]

I will be finishing up a batch of presses this weekend. Then it is on to finishing up some dies. Anybody else interested in a press shoot me a private message.
Thanks,
U.P. North

[Spanners]

Should have popped in here earlier and commented

the ram thread at 7/8 restricts you to the RCE dies as the Corbin dies are 1" in the ram
I think 1" ram and 1.5 head is more suefull as you can always bush down to use smaller dies, alot easier than bushing up.

I'm interested in what dies you'll be doing

[nicholst55]

I'm also looking for dies; I want to swage bullets for my various .31 calibers - .303 British, 7.65X53 Argie Mauser, and 7.62X54R Mosin - I figure that .313" bullets would be about ideal, but I might settle for .312". Also .323" for 8X57mm Mauser, and I might be interested in .308, .358 and .257 dies, as well.

[1bluehorse]

Nothing on here since July, whats going on with the presses and dies??? Is there another thread somewhere? Just curious.:popcorn:

[Buckshot]

............He was here today 10:40 PM. Other then that, not the faintest.

...............Buckshot

[DDriller]

I'm still waiting on the ram I paid for 3 months ago.

[nicholst55]

I'm still waiting on the ram I paid for 3 months ago.

I bought a press from Tim, and he delivered promptly. I dunno what's going on...

[mold maker]

I'm still happily swaging along on .41, .44, and .45.
This thread does seem kinda quiet.

[u.p. north]

Sorry I haven't been participating on my end in this post. I have two presses and a ram to get shipped by the middle of this week. I have a set of dies that the reamers I ordered back a few months ago finally arrived on Friday just after lunch. I have been working on adapting the press to work with a few different sets of dies (I got that worked out and working good). I am getting into building a couple of adjustable core molds. I will be posting some pictures of the adapters set up on the press with dies in place also. I have a day or two to finish up a few little details then I will take some pictures and post them here.


Thank You,
U.P. North

[u.p. north]

Started a New Topic about the swage press with cd4d dies here is the shortcut http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=129479