Lee Die Failure

[warf73]

Just got my new lee dies (480 Ruger) in with new brass and stuff.
Took my die set down to the reloading room cleaned the dies up and got ready to do some reloading.
Well after the first piece of brass I was done, my new piece of brass was scratched all the way around it. Took the die out of the press and looked it over closer and found the carbide ring was cracked all the way around.

After setting the seating die up I found it was gauling one side of my brass. So I took the seatting die out of the press to find what looks like a copper build up part way around the die.

The pics below really show how bad the dies were. I have never talked bad about lee and still will not but I'll not buy there dies again. This same thing happened 10+ years ago but with 45acp dies. Midwayusa.com took care of me again like they always do.

27910

27911

27912

[OldSchool]

It came to you cracked?

[DeanWinchester]

I had a 9mm factory crimp die crack after ONE(1) round. No surprise really. Lee is great don't get me wrong, and I use a LOT of Lee products, BUT, there's a reason they are the least expensive.

[35remington]

Given how brittle carbide is, other causes of cracking are dropping during transit and bottoming the die against the shellholder under load.

[1hole]

Anyone demanding 100% perfection in any manufactoring brand's masses of items will eventually have no one left to buy from, problems with new stuff sure isn't limited to Lee. Every hear of someone having to take a new car back to a dealer for multipule corrections? Stuff happens to stuff and the makers make it right.

[MtGun44]

As said, carbide is a very brittle ceramic, odd loads or impacts can crack it. I expect
the Lee will make it good, but it is a PITA when you want to use a new tool that turns up
non-functional.

I have and use a lot of Lee dies, but for calibers that I expect to shoot a LOT, or for
rifles where I am going to be interested in top accy, I use Hornady dies. The titanium
nitride ring leaves the brass extra shiny in the pistol dies and the floating alignment sleeve
for both rifle and pistol seater dies is unavailable on any other pistol dies that I am aware
of and is a very expensive "benchrest" option in other brands of rifle dies.

Bill

[Tim357]

Be sure that you don't touch the shellholder to the bottom of the die. Carbide is very hard and brittle, and is subject to cracking if too much pressure is placed on the die. Not to say there wasn't a defect from the get-go, but be mindful of how you set the dies up in the press. Better luck next time, eh?
Tim sends

[Cowboy T]

Anyone demanding 100% perfection in any manufactoring brand's masses of items will eventually have no one left to buy from, problems with new stuff sure isn't limited to Lee. Every hear of someone having to take a new car back to a dealer for multipule corrections? Stuff happens to stuff and the makers make it right.

+1. Dillon lovers better stop buying Dillon gear too, then, 'cause they are definitely not flawless, either. Nobody is. As long as Lee or Midway makes it right, you're OK. Lee's always made things good with me the few times I've had to call 'em. It happens.

[warf73]

Anyone demanding 100% perfection in any manufactoring brand's masses of items will eventually have no one left to buy from, problems with new stuff sure isn't limited to Lee. Every hear of someone having to take a new car back to a dealer for multipule corrections? Stuff happens to stuff and the makers make it right.

I agree 100% but I've bought 2 sets from them in 10 years ( yes I know 2 sets of dies isn't many) but both with same issue, and who would have thought a seating die would damage the sides of your brass? I call that failur.




As said, carbide is a very brittle ceramic, odd loads or impacts can crack it. I expect
the Lee will make it good, but it is a PITA when you want to use a new tool that turns up
non-functional.

I have and use a lot of Lee dies, but for calibers that I expect to shoot a LOT, or for
rifles where I am going to be interested in top accy, I use Hornady dies. The titanium
nitride ring leaves the brass extra shiny in the pistol dies and the floating alignment sleeve
for both rifle and pistol seater dies is unavailable on any other pistol dies that I am aware
of and is a very expensive "benchrest" option in other brands of rifle dies.

Bill

I'm not messing with Lee, Midwayusa.com said they will take them back. I purchased the Hornady nitride dies they will ship 01/09/2011.



Be sure that you don't touch the shellholder to the bottom of the die. Carbide is very hard and brittle, and is subject to cracking if too much pressure is placed on the die. Not to say there wasn't a defect from the get-go, but be mindful of how you set the dies up in the press. Better luck next time, eh?
Tim sends

Yes sir my dies don't touch the shellholder.

I given Lee a chance since folks on this site seemed to be having good luck with them. I reload for several other caliber and had 0 issues with them dies or die makers. Its just a bad deal that I got another bad set of Lee dies. Maybe I'll try them again in another 10 years.

These are the dies that have given me 0 issues with 0 returns.

27914

[warf73]

Everyone has a bad product get out it just seems I get the bad one Lee sends out. And I'm only refurring to there reloading die. I love my 4-20 pot and my 30+ Lee boolit mold and push thru sizing dies and have had 0 issue with them items.

[35remington]

All my Lee dies have been 0 defects and 0 returns as well.

Hang around long enough, and it will happen with any brand.

Any users must be careful stating what will or will not happen with any brand because it ain't necessarily so. Flawless for one guy is @#$!!&#@! with another.

[MtGun44]

Like I said, I like and use Lee dies, but they are built to be 'good enough', and
most of the time they are.

IME Hornady dies are 100% top drawer, and the titanium nitride rings are ULTRA
smooth, they really do POLISH the brass - it is shinier after sizing than before.
Plus the floating sleeve seems like a better way to seat a boolit straight.

Let us know what you think when you try out the Hornady dies.

Bill

[Tom W.]

Kinda looks like my cabinet, except I have a few of the other green boxes....

I traded or sold off all of my Lee dies. They did pretty well when I had kids to support, but now I have upgraded. I still use two Lee push through sizers, but only because I don't shoot too many cast in my .30 cal rifles, and haven't bought a sizer and top punch for my LAM II for them or my .357.

[jimkim]

I agree 100% but I've bought 2 sets from them in 10 years ( yes I know 2 sets of dies isn't many) but both with same issue, and who would have thought a seating die would damage the sides of your brass? I call that failur.





I'm not messing with Lee, Midwayusa.com said they will take them back. I purchased the Hornady nitride dies they will ship 01/09/2011.




Yes sir my dies don't touch the shellholder.

I given Lee a chance since folks on this site seemed to be having good luck with them. I reload for several other caliber and had 0 issues with them dies or die makers. Its just a bad deal that I got another bad set of Lee dies. Maybe I'll try them again in another 10 years.

These are the dies that have given me 0 issues with 0 returns.

27914

I love their dies. I'll keep using them, but if I was you, I wouldn't try them again. I have the same luck with GM products. I seem to collect their lemons. I don't know why it happens, or how, but I do. Some people just have bad luck with certain brands. I'm really not superstitious. I just learned to avoid certain products.

The funny thing is, if they had been RCBS dies, this would have been another thread praising RCBS' customer service.

[DAMN YANKEE]

warf73 your not the only one this happened to me also a few months back ,same die set and caliber. My take on it is LEE is not building these to the correct specs.

[Char-Gar]

Well, I have been hanging around the reloading bench for 50 years now, and the only crappy dies that have come across it have been stamped Lee.

[jcwit]

Well, I have been hanging around the reloading bench for 50 years now, and the only crappy dies that have come across it have been stamped Lee.


Well, did you take it to the manufacturer, "meaning Lee" so they could do something about it to mame it right?

I know for a fact I've used RCBS's forever warrenty.

[warf73]

The funny thing is, if they had been RCBS dies, this would have been another thread praising RCBS' customer service.


No sir I would have posted the same and still wouldn't mess with the manufacture. Midwayusa.com backs all there stuff they sale, there is no reason to even talk to the maker. Now if it went south after a few weeks or months yes I would have called Lee or whom ever. But this was brand new first case, after I set the die to my press.

[jaguarxk120]

Some one else use's this a sign off and it is so true.

"The bitterness of Poor Quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory" Aldo Gucci

[jimkim]

No sir I would have posted the same and still wouldn't mess with the manufacture. Midwayusa.com backs all there stuff they sale, there is no reason to even talk to the maker. Now if it went south after a few weeks or months yes I would have called Lee or whom ever. But this was brand new first case, after I set the die to my press.

Sorry, I meant that in jest.

[lylejb]

It can happen to any mass produced product.

My first 45acp die set was Hornaday Ti nitrade set "guarenteed not to scratch" ...... well about 6 months later, guess what?

They were scratching the **** out of every case. I know I could have sent them in, but I didn't want to wait.

I bought a RCBS carbide set and have had no trouble for the last 15 yrs or so....

[Plinkster]

Those look like someone used and broke them before they were shipped to you. Midway does take returns and it'd be pretty easy to see a broken set returned as "unused" and then accidentally shipped out again to another customer. Not sure how else copper would end up inside a seating die unless it were already used. Just my .02 anyway.

[Plinkster]

Doh! Sucked in by the old thread lol!

[jcwit]

Anyone demanding 100% perfection in any manufactoring brand's masses of items will eventually have no one left to buy from, problems with new stuff sure isn't limited to Lee. Every hear of someone having to take a new car back to a dealer for multipule corrections? Stuff happens to stuff and the makers make it right.

Absolutly! A number of years ago I purchased 2 new Chevy's. One a new Camaro , 4 months later I ordered a new Corvette to replace the totally defective Camaro. The Corvette was defective also. The Corvette was in and out of the dealers repair shop over and over again for engine work, body work, electrical problems many many times during the first year of ownership.

Guess I didn't learn my lesson the first time.

[gds]

That is strange. I only have a few pistol caliber lee dies and have not seen that yet:

.380 ACP
9x18 mak
9x19
.38 Special
.357 mag
.40
.44mag
.45 Colt
.45 ACP

Thousands of rounds loaded on those dies.

I would have to ask since you have had it happen twice if it is something you are doing?

[cwlongshot]

That is strange. I only have a few pistol caliber lee dies and have not seen that yet:

.380 ACP
9x18 mak
9x19
.38 Special
.357 mag
.40
.44mag
.45 Colt
.45 ACP

Thousands of rounds loaded on those dies.

I would have to ask since you have had it happen twice if it is something you are doing?

I have dozens of die sets. Loaded with some of them for over fourty years the oldest ones, (Lyman all americans) my pop loaded with them before me. Yet ever failed. BUT none where LEE...

When the 500S&W was introduced LEE was quick to offer its carbide dies. I'm impatient, so I bought them. The carbide ring fell out in three pieces after a couple hundred cases. I replaced it with RCBS and don't expect any problems. The die was setup and used properly and never dropped or banged in my possession. I have had two other Lee die failures. No more lee anything for this guy...

You should know, I have worked in gun shops since the 80's. I have sold all. Rands of reloading g products and by far Lee and Taurus are the two worst for overall quality and customer service after the fact. I never recommend either. While Dillon, Redding, RCBS and Hornady are top notch. Lyman can be upity, but they will fix what's broken. I have seen Dillon and RCBS send out free pieces many many times to help a loader out. They get my business!


CW

[gds]

I have dozens of die sets. Loaded with some of them for over fourty years the oldest ones, (Lyman all americans) my pop loaded with them before me. Yet ever failed. BUT none where LEE...

When the 500S&W was introduced LEE was quick to offer its carbide dies. I'm impatient, so I bought them. The carbide ring fell out in three pieces after a couple hundred cases. I replaced it with RCBS and don't expect any problems. The die was setup and used properly and never dropped or banged in my possession. I have had two other Lee die failures. No more lee anything for this guy...

You should know, I have worked in gun shops since the 80's. I have sold all. Rands of reloading g products and by far Lee and Taurus are the two worst for overall quality and customer service after the fact. I never recommend either. While Dillon, Redding, RCBS and Hornady are top notch. Lyman can be upity, but they will fix what's broken. I have seen Dillon and RCBS send out free pieces many many times to help a loader out. They get my business!


CW

I have no doubt that what you are saying is true. I know that there is a lot of complaints about lee. I just have not had the problems that others have had.

My point is simply I have had different experiences with Lee. And since you brought it up, also Taurus.

I bought a used lee 4 hole turret press several years back, I used it to load a lot of ammo and one day broke the primer arm. Called lee to order a new one. Explained the situation was getting ready to give my CC info and was told not to worry about it. Sent it to me at no cost. Granted it was a small part may not mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, but i thought it was nice

Almost every die set I use is Lee. I do have some RCBS, Redding, and even A hornady die set, but I always go back to the Lee die set. Not that there is anything wrong with the other die sets at all. I just like the way the lee Die sets set up.

I use the Lee loadmaster, 3 and 4 hole turret presses and most problems I have had were user error. Not to say there have not been some small issues. But they were usually quickly fixed. Even dillon has a bad part once in a while.

[1hole]

"The bitterness of Poor Quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory" Aldo Gucci

I've just got to ask; Do you let your wife buy Mr. Gucci's handbags and shoes or is that just a feel good drop line about Lee? :)

[cwlongshot]

"The bitterness of Poor Quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory" Aldo Gucci

I've just got to ask; Do you let your wife buy Mr. Gucci's handbags and shoes or is that just a feel good drop line about Lee? :)


I have used that quote when talking about LEE products many times too! I had no idea it was Gucci's quote. Lol

My opinions are not based on just myown use age but rather years of dealing with customers in three different locations. The products are sub standard quality built with sub standard materials. They do work for some people, mostly those who use them so infrequently they never really see any appreciably use. I try to suggest people buy used better quality stuff. They spend the same or less than the LEE junk but get a far better product.

CW

[gds]

I have used that quote when talking about LEE products many times too! I had no idea it was Gucci's quote. Lol

My opinions are not based on just myown use age but rather years of dealing with customers in three different locations. The products are sub standard quality built with sub standard materials. They do work for some people, mostly those who use them so infrequently they never really see any appreciably use. I try to suggest people buy used better quality stuff. They spend the same or less than the LEE junk but get a far better product.

CW

What do you consider infrequent?

Just as an example my 9mm lee die set and my .45 ACP die set have loaded well over 6 thousand rounds each. I would even say they have loaded significantly more than that without a problem. Most of the time the brass is range pick up with out even running it through the tumbler.

My .223, .308 and 7.62x39 Lee dies have loaded several thousand each also, again without any problem.

I know lee has a bad rep in some places, and clearly you have had bad experiences. But I am trying to figure if you are suggesting that somehow myself or others who use and like lee products, have no merit in our opinion because we do not use X, Y, or Z products, and because our experiences are not the same as yours.

No problem if that is your point, I see the same thing over at ARFCOM from some people who say you can only have tier one items to have a say in anything. So that is fine, just curious if that is your point.

[cwlongshot]

GDS,

As I say, my opinions are based on almost thirty years selling these products. I am gulf of lumping all LEE products together and this my be unfair. But to my mind, its easier to avoid a entire company for a few bad products then feel like a ginnee pig and be waiting for another failure trying other products. The biggest complaints come from progressive presses, scales and powder measures but over the years I have seen newrly them all fail.
Sure I have seen RCBS, Dillon, Lyman and Reddings stuff fail too. But it's far less common. Also I can honestly say that of those four Lyman was the only one to have difficulty dealing with. BUT they deal with end user and provide excellent CS to them. But they do not like dealing with retailers for some reason. Both Dillon and RCBS have bent over backwards too many times to mention to make a customer and us happy!!
On the other hand LEEs CS is atrocious, very slow and fees for things that should not break or be faulty on a new barely used item.

I do not in any way to come off as elitest. The written word is so difficult with such things. I just like to help people and try to guide them away from problems. But I have also learned long ago about leading a horse to water. ;)

I am glad you have not had problems! I do own some LEE products myself. I have one of there cheapest single stage presses. I use it for priming it has probably primed tens of thousands of rounds and is working just fine. I like there Collet neck sizer die set. I have 5-6 sets in various calibers. I have a bunch of trimmers as well as a number of shell holders. I also have been using there lead pot for over twenty years with no issues.

I hope this better explains the basis for my opinions.

CW