Thank God for Ruger SRH strength

[Johnch]

Just got back from the range
One of our members was plinking at the 100 yd gong when I got there

He was using a 9 1/2" Ruger SRH in 44 mag
Every time he pulled the trigger , I thought OMG that was loud even with my muffs on and him in the next lane with a wall between us

After a little , we all went down to change targets
On the way back he was complaining about the short case life he was getting
2 reloads and new primers would drop out of the brass

That got me and another member asking questions

He was loading using a MAX load of Unique for a 240 gr jacketed bullet
But had run out of the 240's , so he started to use up the 300 gr jacketed bullets he had

But he never changed the powder charge :holysheep

The primers were completely flat and were flowing around the fireing pin

We both had to argue with him that he was risking his safty with every pull of the trigger

He kept saying he had shot 150+ of this load over the last week and other than hard extraction everything was fine ( he had to drive each case out with a dowel , 1 at a time )

As a truste , I flat told him that IMO his load was a safety problem and he was to stop using it at the range or he would loose his range rights

After a few choice words he left , I wrote up the safety violation form , had the other member sign it also and pray he never shoots up the rest of those loads


Anyone have a clue what pressures he was running ?
I looked on his ammo box and saw his load there
His UNSAFE LOAD was .3 gr over what Allaint is currently listing as max for a 240 gr jacketed bullet
A 300 gr Hornady bullet loaded in the shorter length canalure and a Winchester LP primer in Winchester brass

I am guessing somewhere close to 60,000 PSI

Just glad he was shooting a Ruger SRH and not a Taures or Smith
As IMO he would have blown up his gun if not killed himself

I just wounder sometimes how people even think they are not going to hurt themselves or others when they will not follow safe loading practices

John

[2shot]

We both had to argue with him that he was risking his safty with every pull of the trigger

John


And yours too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trey45]

Not everyone is cut out to be a reloader, the example you just illustrated drives that point home. It sounds like the boy is not only armed with a head full of weapons grade stupidity, but also is unwilling to learn from his mistakes. Darwin's got to win one sometimes, I fear this is just a matter of time before Darwin wins again. Let's just hope the boy doesn't take someone with him when he loses.

[DeanWinchester]

I going to play the cold hearted SOB here. I hope he finds a nice solitary place and finishes out the rest of the ammo. It's time people started embracing the benefits of natural selection and stop saving others from it. The only thing I am upset by is his endangering YOU. For thousands of years, stupid people have been removed from the gene pool by natural selection and now, man, with his twisted reverse sense of morality decides to save the village idiot. It makes no sense to me. I have paid for my stupidity and so too should everyone else.

[missionary5155]

Greetings & Merry Christmas
With Unique you reach a presure threshold and then the next higher load pressure spikes so there is no way to know except it would be excessive.

[Von Dingo]

I'm really glad nobody got hurt. Things like that scare the pants off of me.

[btroj]

Idiots are born every minute. Sadly, they don't die at the same rate.

It is stories like this that make me worry about the future of shooting. Idiots like this will eventually hurt someone and the gun will get blamed.

[Bullshop]

Well yea sure but the important thing is that those bullets were going really really fast!
BTW in case someone does not recognise it that was sarcasm.
I can poke fun because I am always alone at the range. Not as much fun as rubbing elbows with other shooters but not as dangerous either.

[JDFuchs]

Wow just wow. Im glad you did your job and did your best to prove your point that his load was unsafe. Hope you don't run into anything like that again.

On another note ill be keeping Ruger in even higher regard for an amazingly strong revolver.

[yotatrd4x4]

well I agree with some of the others natural selection should take him out of the equasion. Anyhow the SRH is a beast of a gun I have one of the 4inch RH models in 44mag and had a 454casull 7.5inch in the SRH model. Both are fine guns and strong to boot. I carry 44mag +p+ made by buffalo bore when I am in the wilds of Alaska just to make sure I come back. I can tell you the 44mag+p+ is rough. I have shot a few to practice with just to know if I could handle them and I can fairly well. I know if adrenaline kicked in I could pump 6 away and not even think about it. Well enough talkin yalls ears off, I will get to the point. The box tells you only to use the buffalo bore in redhawk, SRH, and freedom arms pistols as they have been tested to the higher pressures safely, well a buddy of mine has a taurus and its an Ok pistol but the cylinder fits loose the throat is rough and there are machine marks all over the inside of the chambers. Anyhow he bought a box of those same bullets and I tried to tell him it wasnt ok to shoot them. He thinks any 44 can shootem so I showed him the side of the box and he said no way my taurus is just as strong which is not the case. anyhow I talked to him the next weekend and he split open one of the chambers and got the other 5 cases stuck in the chambers because of the pressure and machine marks. He sent the gun back to taurus and said he blew up and they laughed at him and told him it would be repaired on his dime for using improper ammo. Now after paid for the gun twice he agrees with me and doesnt touch anything other than plain old 44 mag ammo. The worst part of it is I reload and cast so I offered to take the bullets off him and give him good safe reloads but he wouldnt do it now I have the rest of the box he gave me for free and I guess that those loads the above fellar was using were even higher pressure than the +p+ because I had no primer flow or extraction issues so he is dang luck his hands are still there until he throws the coals to one of his reloads that has .2 grains more than the others and is setback more than the rest cause I know his stuff aint consistent if he cant even read load data and grasp how it works. Just my 2 cents.

[jmsj]

johnch,
You did the right thing writing him up. Since it doesn't sound like he'll learn until he blows a gun up, I hope he stays off your range.
Stories like these make me feel blessed that I have a range behind my house. I often get invited to go shoot at public ranges and mostly I decline. If the guys are safe or are beginers that will listen and be safe, I invite them to come to the house and shoot
Over the years I've seen too many unsafe shooters and a few accidents.
Stay safe, jmsj

[LVRFAN]

Idiots are getting to be pretty common anymore.

[docone31]

You should see it at the range this time of year.
They all come down from up there. We call them Snowbirds.
Yet, they live!
I have seen it all at the range. Muzzle control? Nah. Differing ammo in a firearm? Sure. If it fits.
Shooting when target call is up.
A lot of them got their first firearm down here when they came. They are not allowed to use it up there. The ones that have one, have never fired them.
I shudder to think of most of them reloading anything.
My wife and I try to help everyone we see. If they are willing, we are there. If not, we move down the firing line. You never know.

[klcarroll]

Even well supervised Public Ranges can be scary places on a crowded week-end; ……And this story well illustrates one reason why!

I prefer to shoot alone on private property: ……When that’s not possible, and I have to use a Public Range, …….I’ll go on a Monday afternoon. (….When I can put 20 yards of bench between me and the next shooter!!)


Kent

[GP100man]

When people say "I don`t care " I take it as that & leave !!!

2 loadings & primers fall out , at least 60K !!

When I was dumber & younger I & a friend did some insane things with his Redhawk 357 & we got 4 firings from brass before the pockets would`nt hold a primer.

[Potsy]

It's a 15 minute drive to the little range I shoot at. It's typically not crowded and I try to go in the morning. Most days, it's just me and maybe one or two others. Biggest problem is guys who want to stand and talk to you instead of letting you shoot, but I always try to be helpful and friendly.
Biggest problem I run into is some kid emptying his 30 round clip out of his SKS, sandbagged, of course, because he's got a scope on it, and hitting nothing at 50 yards.

Plays havoc with your nerves when you're shooting under roof.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI
YIKES & :holysheep:Fire::Fire:

[Houndog]

I think all of us have seen these shooters at one time or another. I lump em all in the same catagory and call em "Bubba Shooters". They won't listen to reason and you can't help them. I either move FAR away from them or just pack up and go home.

[jwp475]

Redhawk on left S&W M-29 on right


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/RugerVSSW.jpg

[Hickory]

Idiots are born every minute. Sadly, they don't die at the same rate..

I will file this away in my memory for future use.

[HeavyMetal]

A sad example of how this country is breeding the common sense out of the average joe!

In this case he will, eventually, blow up a gun and, when he does, he will sue the maker because it must be thier fault!

Trey 45 has it right: some people are just not cut out to reload!

Now with a little luck he may have an "epifinay" and figure out that he's going down the wrong road but I won't hold my breath!

Maybe it's just me but it sure seems the 44 magnum brings out the most stupid in shooters / reloaders.

Seems every time I've been around someone doing something dumb at the range a 44 magnum, or a 458 Winchester, is involved!

The real question is: how do you fix the problem?

You did right to advise this guy he was endangering himself and others! Member of the range board or not I'd have told him the same thing!

The down side is a literal "Ticking Bomb" is walking around looking for another place to shoot and when, not if, it goes off the "shrapnel" will hit us all in the backside!

I wish we could be more proactive in these cases, any ideas?

[Frank]

Potsy:
Biggest problem I run into is some kid emptying his 30 round clip out of his SKS, sandbagged, of course, because he's got a scope on it, and hitting nothing at 50 yards.

Plays havoc with your nerves when you're shooting under roof.
Exactly. Teen shooters frequently means havoc. Good word.

[ole 5 hole group]

You should see it at the range this time of year.
They all come down from up there. We call them Snowbirds. Yet, they live!

You have to be referring to our brothers & sisters residing to the north of the 49th parallel north; otherwise, not a damn thing was learned from the War of Northern Aggression.:-D

Getting back to the OP - I just hope this guy isn't teaching others less knowledgeable than him, for if he is, someone is going to pay the price for his stupidity- big time.

[jwp475]

Just got back from the range
One of our members was plinking at the 100 yd gong when I got there

He was using a 9 1/2" Ruger SRH in 44 mag
Every time he pulled the trigger , I thought OMG that was loud even with my muffs on and him in the next lane with a wall between us

After a little , we all went down to change targets
On the way back he was complaining about the short case life he was getting
2 reloads and new primers would drop out of the brass

That got me and another member asking questions

He was loading using a MAX load of Unique for a 240 gr jacketed bullet
But had run out of the 240's , so he started to use up the 300 gr jacketed bullets he had

But he never changed the powder charge :holysheep

The primers were completely flat and were flowing around the fireing pin

We both had to argue with him that he was risking his safty with every pull of the trigger

He kept saying he had shot 150+ of this load over the last week and other than hard extraction everything was fine ( he had to drive each case out with a dowel , 1 at a time )

As a truste , I flat told him that IMO his load was a safety problem and he was to stop using it at the range or he would loose his range rights

After a few choice words he left , I wrote up the safety violation form , had the other member sign it also and pray he never shoots up the rest of those loads


Anyone have a clue what pressures he was running ?
I looked on his ammo box and saw his load there
His UNSAFE LOAD was .3 gr over what Allaint is currently listing as max for a 240 gr jacketed bullet
A 300 gr Hornady bullet loaded in the shorter length canalure and a Winchester LP primer in Winchester brass

I am guessing somewhere close to 60,000 PSI

Just glad he was shooting a Ruger SRH and not a Taures or Smith
As IMO he would have blown up his gun if not killed himself

I just wounder sometimes how people even think they are not going to hurt themselves or others when they will not follow safe loading practices

John



I asked a friend to run this through Quick Load useing 1.3 grains of Unique under the 300 grain Hornady and this what he came up with



Quickload has two entries for that bullet, it probably has two cannelures. That is an assumption on my part because the bullets are listed at different lengths, which would not be right, but the same part number. Possibly there is one flat point and one hollow point version which would account for the difference? But that would imply two different part numbers, I would think. If I understand the database correctly, the deeper seating depth ends up at about 42,000 PSI and the shallower one at about 39,000 PSI.

Pretty hot for Unique...... treat this info with caution, because something isn't quite 100% correct here.

[EchoSixMike]

The problem is that when the idiot blows up the gun, he probably isn't going to severely injure himself, it's the people to either side are going to be *****. The cylinder will be sprayed to both sides, the bottom strap will probably preserve his fingers. S/F.....Ken M

[Moonie]

Potsy:
Exactly. Teen shooters frequently means havoc. Good word.

Wow, you really don't like younger shooters, would love for you to shoot against either of my teenage boys, but then they are both Marines!

[Frank]

Moonie:
Wow, you really don't like younger shooters, would love for you to shoot against either of my teenage boys, but then they are both Marines!
In the military they call it, Friendly Fire. Yeah, right. "Friendly". With friends like that, who needs enemies? [smilie=p:

[joelpete]

@ JWP475 Excellent illustration! I'm mostly an automatic shooter in handguns so I've always just kind of thought of revolvers as indestructible tanks. (NO, I WOULD NOT LOAD LIKE THE A$$CLOWN MENTIONED BY THE OP) The picture you posted clearly shows where one model has the capacity to be much more durable than another.

[Potsy]

Didn't mean to sound too crabby when I was talking about the younger guys with SKS's. I've emptied my share of bannana clips in short order when I was young.
It just adles me under roof.

Stupid people really have loused up the whole firearms industry. Everyone wants to cram evolution down our throats but lawyers are there to constantly interfere with the process of natural selection.

[9.3X62AL]

That story is almost UNBELIEVABLE--but not quite. That idjit is either COMPLETELY unacquainted with reloading manuals and their content, or is trolling for a lawsuit. People like that are out there. John did right by ordering his act off the range and documenting the incident.

[joelpete]

This reminds me of when I was about 13~14. We went down to my Aunt and Uncles house and did some plinking out back. Another Uncle brought his .357mag and let me shoot it (I hit nothing). He let me keep some of those nickle plated casings because they were split down the side. He shrugged it off at the time and said he usually put a little extra in while reloading. Wow... that all just hit home with me.

Fast-forward 23 years and I'm just getting into reloading. I read the Lee book before loading my first round. It took me a long time to find out just how stupid that former Uncle of mine was.

[jwp475]

Another person ran Quick Load with I think better parameters

and this is what he came up with for a 10.3 grains of Unique under the 300 grain Hornady bullet



I asked Hornady about this bullet last year. They told me the correct length is 0.860" +/- 0.005". The nose to the front cannelure is 0.310" +/- 0.005" (due to the length variance). That is for nominally seating it to 1.600" COL. The cannelures are 0.025" wide. The bottom cannelure is 0.45" +/- 0.005" from the nose for seating to a nominal 1.740" COL in long cylinder revolvers to get more powder capacity. They list no load data for that, however.

I get 48,500 psi and 35,600 psi, for 1.600" and 1.740" COL, respectively, using QuickLOAD's defaults. Bear in mind that QuickLOAD is really better geared toward bottleneck rifle cases than handgun cartridges. Revolver loads, in particular, are subject to barrel cylinder gap bleed down and other issues that the program can't account for. Nonetheless, I would be working up toward 10.6 grains with extreme caution from about 8 grains in .3 grain steps. Especially given Unique's tendency toward erratic metering in many powder measures.

As a side comment, I really don't see a good reason to run such a hot Unique load. You could get the same velocity in the shorter load from about 11 grains of Power Pistol, but do it at the pressure of the longer load, above.

[Geraldo]

You have to be referring to our brothers & sisters residing to the north of the 49th parallel north; otherwise, not a damn thing was learned from the War of Northern Aggression.

The 49th Parallel makes up part of the US-Canada border, and we certainly do get overrun by them, but I think docone31 is referring to all snowbirds, which I would classify as anyone north of the 28th Parallel. :razz:

On topic, I recall being at a bowling pin shoot years ago and one guy was getting rocked by his M29, the muzzle blast of which looked like a flash-bang going off. His buddy had made him some "hot" loads to knock those pins down...:roll:

[saz]

A couple of years ago I ran into this kid who looked in about his early 20's and said he was shooting his first handloads and asked me to take a look at them. He seemed really nervous at first and when I asked him what the load was (because there was nothing written down anywhere that I saw) he replied with "the load is fine". In reply I asked "what do you want me to look at then?" He grumbled something while I walked off, so I just kept an eye on this guy. 1st round, click...... 2nd, click and some more grumbling. 3rd sounded really funny- not enough report to be a 30-06 load. 4th was the same. I asked again along with the explanation of why I was asking what the load is and that you cannot download some powders. He replied with 22 grs of IMR 4350 and hornady 150 for a "light" load. I looked a little closer and it looked like he had charcoal spray on his face. Looked at the brass, black about half way down and primer never even tried to set back into the case. I also asked where he got this load data and what manuals he was using. He said that he didnt know there were such things as load manuals and that he did all of this stuff under the watchfull eye of his uncle in his shop, which is also where he got the "load data". Not trying to hijack the thread, just made me remember that.

[OldSchool]

Redhawk on left S&W M-29 on right
jwp475, thanks so much for this image. I had heard about Ruger being stronger, but this tells it all. I just hope I can remember this thread when I need to explain the quality of the Blackhawk/Redhawk to someone else!

[OldSchool]

Another person ran Quick Load with I think better parameters

and this is what he came up with for a 10.3 grains of Unique under the 300 grain Hornady bullet


Revolver loads, in particular, are subject to barrel cylinder gap bleed down and other issues that the program can't account for.


Which brings up another issue: What kind of erosion is he causing to the forcing cone and cylinder face? That SRH will need some work in a short time, I would think.

[dubber123]

I going to play the cold hearted SOB here. I hope he finds a nice solitary place and finishes out the rest of the ammo. It's time people started embracing the benefits of natural selection and stop saving others from it. The only thing I am upset by is his endangering YOU. For thousands of years, stupid people have been removed from the gene pool by natural selection and now, man, with his twisted reverse sense of morality decides to save the village idiot. It makes no sense to me. I have paid for my stupidity and so too should everyone else.

You are my new best friend.... :wink: I absolutely agree with your post. I hope I suffer for doing something stupid. It reminds me to not do that again, it's nobodies fault but my own. Babysitting fools benefits nobody but the fool.

[DeanWinchester]

Dubber123, you seem to have pretty clear vision. I'd buy you a cold one anytime.

[Johnch]

I wish I could have just let him blow up his gun

But then he would have probely tryed to sue the club or Ruger

But as of sometime this afternoon , his key card would not work
The head trustee called him and told him and that we would be returning his 2011 dues

As I called the other trustees and we all agreed to boot him

As he had been writen up 2 other times for safly viloitions

Just no need for a Darwin Award winner to be a member of the club

John

[btroj]

2 previous safety violations? Really? Who would have expected that?

Yu guys made a very wise decision. He was only going to give the range a bad name, not to mention what he is already doing to responsible gun owners. Sad thing is it would be most likely someone else he would hurt. Bringing a friend to try his big gun and all. What an idiot.

Glad to hear your club did the right thing. No amount of dues is worth dealing with e risk posed by people like him.

[DeanWinchester]

John, that's too right. Let him find God somewhere else. No need for good folks to get sued over it.

[flinchnjerk]

You are my new best friend.... :wink: I absolutely agree with your post. I hope I suffer for doing something stupid. It reminds me to not do that again, it's nobodies fault but my own. Babysitting fools benefits nobody but the fool.

"The inevitable result of shielding men from the effects of their folly is to fill the world with fools." - Herbert Spencer

[saz]

I wish I could have just let him blow up his gun

But then he would have probely tryed to sue the club or Ruger

But as of sometime this afternoon , his key card would not work
The head trustee called him and told him and that we would be returning his 2011 dues

As I called the other trustees and we all agreed to boot him

As he had been writen up 2 other times for safly viloitions

Just no need for a Darwin Award winner to be a member of the club

John

My new hero

[HeavyMetal]

In response to post 39: Good deal!

Protecting our rights is a top proirty in my opinion and guys like that just make it hard on the rest of us particularly after they see the "need" to consult a lawyer.

Unfortuneately this guy is just going to think your "jealous" of him for some reason and that's why he was banned!

Don't be surprised if his lawyer calls.

What I would rather have seen here is a temporary suspension of use pending him actually attending a reloading clinic of some type but I honestly don't know if such a beast exist NRA sponsered or otherwise.

Which is a complete shame all on it's own but food for another thread.

[bob208]

the problem we have with our rights is there are so many idiots trying to prove the anti's right. that we are to stupid to own guns.

if you have to punch the emptys out with a dowel. you should be saying what is wrong? then when some one trys to tell you listen to them.

you did right by kicking him off the range.