Beartooth bullets for hunting

[trc10]

What do you think about using the beartooth 160 gr. bullet in a .30-.30 for Whitetail deer? Are the Beartooth bullets too hard?

[Paul5388]

I don't know if they're too hard or not. I use a Beartooth 250 gr .359" in my .357 Mag Handi rifle, but I haven't had a shot at any game with it yet.

I have used a 311291 in .30-30 and tried an air cooled vs water quenched. The softer bullet shot better for me, even with a gas check, but I had to keep the velocity under 1600 fps when I used Alliant 2400 loads. I was using another Handi rifle and it may be a micro groove barrel, can't remember, but it is a shallow groove barrel.

BTW, I believe the Beartooth is a water quenched bullet, so it is hard, but not brittle.

[VTDW]

trc10,

BTB bullets are as good as they come. Too hard? It depends on what kind of performance you expect. They WILL completely pass thru your deer for sure if loaded up.

Dave

[JJ Miller]

I used their 375 250gn bullet in a 375 Winchester levergun in Africa last May. they totally failed.

I shot a Wildabeest at 80 yrds and the PH was watching thru bino's and he saw the dust fly off the shoulder and called it a dead Wildabeest. It turned and ran off. Only a few drops of blood and then nothing. 4 hours later we stopped looking. We just marked it up to " one of those things " and went on.

2 days later another Wildabeest broadside at 60 yrds. PH saw the bullet strike on the shoulder, called a dead Wildabeest. It ran off. 6 hours later it got dark and no Wildabeest.

3 days later a Zebra at 70 yrds, hit him in the shoulder, he goes 10 steps and falls over. Finally a kill with the 357 Winchester. We found the bullet hit the shoulder, the nose sheared/shattered off turning the bullet sideways but luckily it went straight in this time and stopped in the heart.

That batch of 375 bullets from Beartooth were too hard. They were chrono'ed at 1922 fps. The nose was failing allowing the bullet to turn and track who knows where ( we never did recover the 2 Wildabeest ). The recovered bullet from the Zebra showed this clearly. The bullet went through sideways, not a straight track. Once the bullet went in it turned which ever way the failed nose pointed it.

It cost me $1500.00 ( 2 lost Wildabeest ) in trophy fees to find out Beartooth bullets fail on big game.

This all was witnessed by some very knowledgeable bullet casters and shooters, who were along on the hunt. One being Paco Kelly from over on Leverguns.com. Paco was with me on all the hunts, saw the bullets hit, examined the failed bullet from the Zebra and agrees Beartooth needs to tweak their alloy.

I am sorry if I am stepping on any toes here, but that is what happened to me........................................JJ Miller

[VTDW]

You are sure not stepping on my toes one bit. WOW!!! What you experienced really sucks. It makes me glad the largest game I hunt is hogs. I have read for years that African game takes a premium boolit.

Dave

[JJ Miller]

On the other hand, the cast bullets in my 480 Ruger went length wise thru a Gemsbuck with no deviation at all.

I think the problem was the 250 gn 375 was too long for caliber and the lead could not stand the strain, they grouped well and I had minimal leading, but they failed on heavy bone. Most PH's refer to Wildebeest as the poor mans Cape Buffalo as they are so toughly built and die very hard.

I think a lead bullet for Africa needs to be more in proportion length/diameter wise, if they get too long and thin you run into trouble..............................JJ Miller

[waksupi]

JJ, a friend of mine also hunted Africa, with cast bullets. He used AC WW bullets, and had very good luck with them in the .375 H&H. I agree with your assessment, yours were probably too hard.
Welcome aboard, by the way!

[rhead]

If they are water dropped then the nose section of a few could be anealed to soften the noses. They will shoot to the same point of impact as the un softened practice loads.
Seat the bullets base down in a pan of water and heat the noses with a propane torch, be careful not to let them get hot enough to sag. The softening will be as uniform as the heating. (pretty good with a little practice but not perfect)

[Paul5388]

If I'm not mistaken, Marshall will send bullets without heat treating, but they have to be specified that way. I'm remembering a BHN of 14 without heat treat, but you know how memories are!

[trc10]

Thanks for all the help.

Tom

[Paul5388]

Marshall discusses the high antimony content bullets and their brittleness, so I'm pretty sure he's aware of the problems. Especially since he says this
This brings us to the reason that we use a 3% Antimony alloy at Beartooth Bullets. Although we too heat-treat our bullets to a BHN 21-22 hardness, this low antimony alloy retains the ductile toughness of the un-heat-treated alloy. This alloy, is hard, and tough, not brittle and prone to breaking or shattering like the alloys containing twice to four times the antimony content of our alloy. Our bullets have proven themselves on moose, grizzly bear, Asiatic water buffalo, African cape buffalo, elk, nilgai, zebra, wild boar, moose, eland and multitudes of other heavy boned game animals the world over... usually with complete penetration, and what few bullets have been recovered, most are near perfectly in tact, retaining 90-100% of their original weight when fired at handgun velocities and retaining 70-100% original weight when fired at rifle velocities.I've never found a brittle 250 gr .359" Beartooth in the dirt berm I shoot into.