.22RF bullet reforming/accurising.

[JeffinNZ]

Team.

I have made an accurising device along the lines of those that Paco Kelly sells. I tried to buy one of his but never heard back from him.

Is anyone reforming .22RF out there? If so, at what point does a degredation in accuracy occur?

I have been FNing and HPing target ammo and find that it is very easy to destroy accuracy.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I have a little homemade tool in which to insert a 22LR with a snug fit . Its length allows the easy trimming of RN or HP to FN by slicing off 2 grains of lead. I've had no degradation of accuracy from what was established in a particular arm, but frequently a slight improvement. The payoff is in improved killing power on small game, especially our ferocious, tenacious squirrels. Bvt

[JIMinPHX]

I had considered making one of those tools a few years ago, but they just looked too dangerous to use with rimfire ammo, so I scrapped the idea.

[NoZombies]

The thing I found in my *very limited* experimentation, was that it was "cheap" ammo that saw the best results from reforming. I was bumping everything up to a nice even .2235 and flat nosing. I didn't mess with hollow pointing, as it wasn't what I was trying to accomplish.

The match grade ammo showed either a degradation in accuracy, or no change at all.

My experiments where pretty limited, but that's what I found. Hope it helps!

[Baron von Trollwhack]

My tool had about 80% of the rim recessed, was 1 1/2" in diameter and designed to let me slice off the nose neatly with an old fashioned razor blade. I didn't like the hammering either from earlier experiments. BvT

[Larry Gibson]

I use a 2 hole paco Kelly tool (.223/.224) and a Neil Waltz die in .225. Accuracy and functional reliability based on resizing and reforming is dependent on the firearm. I mostly use the Kelly "nasty Nose" and the Waltz HP for reforming. Some semi autos won't take .225 sized bullets, some will. I test the ammo in verious increments of sizing in each of my .22LRs and then test the reforming in increments to determine where accuracy degrades and it does at some point. With uniform sizing and nose reforming most ll of the cheaper "bulk" .22LR shows improvement in accuracy and then degrades at some point. I use 10 shot groups at 50 yards when testing and then confirm at 100 yards as that is about my max range for .22LR use on critters. I've been able to get very good improvement with most different brands of "bulk" ammo but prefer CCI Blazer. The "hi-speed" Winchester and Federal red box HPs also respond well, wspecially with the HP reformed and opened up. They are very deadly on ground squirrels. Additionaly, weight sorting can also improve accuracy with some of the "bulk" .22LR.

I've a single shot rifle and a HS Sentinal revolver that just love Blazers that are sized .225 and reformed to almost a HP'd SWC shape. Jack rabbits do like them tyhough. Blaer sized .225 with a small Nasty Nose is also very accurate in my AR15 with 12" teidt using a M261 sub-cal device.

Note; with quality match grade ammuntion (usually 2.5 - 4 times the cost of the "bulk") accuracy is not improved but the terminal ballistics are definately improved. I've a brick of Wolf Match Target ($45) that I HP in the Waltz die and use it for head shots on "eating" rabbits and squirrels.

Larry Gibson

[Marine Sgt 2111]

I use the Waltz die and HP wolf match ammo. Generall it improves the accuracy it's reliable feeding that may be an issue. In my 10-22 with a Wilson match barrel I can use a cavernous HP without a hitch. In a Winchester 52B repro I can only HP to the radius at the base of the HP pin unless I single load. The hp's penetrate 1 milk jug and die in the second at 30 yards out of a rifle and expand to .40 cal.

[gon2shoot]

I use the Kelly tool, but had to build a "drop weight" to get consistant.

[IridiumRed]

gon2shoot,

Excellent idea, care to share any details?

[JeffinNZ]

I use the Kelly tool, but had to build a "drop weight" to get consistant.

That's why I made my forming punches extra long and use the collar. Sets the same depth every time.

[roysha]

such as on youtube or something similar showing this being done?
Hammering on a loaded 22RF round actually frightens me a bit, but apparently there is no need for concern but.........

[JeffinNZ]

such as on youtube or something similar showing this being done?
Hammering on a loaded 22RF round actually frightens me a bit, but apparently there is no need for concern but.........

If you are not pinching the rim there is no problem. The lead in RF bullets is really very soft. I measured Eley and Rem. as only slightly more than 5 BNH. You are not pounding the punch. Just a firm tap.

Here's is my theory. Given the rampant lawsuits that abound the US, do you really think that US citizens would sell such tools if there was a chance they would cause a round to discharge?

[roysha]

I had hoped someone would talk me out of this but obviously that is not going to happen so here goes another project. Just what I need. :groner:

Jeff, hope you won't mind if I copy your design. I have a nearly full case of WIN military training ammo that doesn't shoot worth beans and I'm hoping this might fix it.

[sniper]

I had a Paco tool, and found that generally, there was a slight improvement in accuracy ...some shot better, some slightly worse, but most modified ammo shot about the same in two rifles.
It is a good tool, well-made, and there is absolutely no danger of a discharge from forming the boolit...IF...the instructions are followed exactly!

BUT I decided the return from the work involved was put to better use by...shooting!:wink: A lot more fun! I figure there is good factory ammo out there that will shoot fine in whatever you have...all you have to do is find it! And that means lots of shooting! 8-)

However; In the True Spirit of Never Leaving Well Enough Alone, I now have a tool that allows maybe 5-7 gr. to be sliced off the nose of regular LR rounds. The tool allows just a smidge... about 2gr. to be sliced off the noses of Aguila 60 gr. SSS rounds. I am thinking that 5-10 gr removed may be a good place to start and stop with that round, but...I wonder how the E. Arthur Brown hollow point tool would affect accuracy on them all? And would they expand? Hmmmm... :mrgreen:

[billw]

I use the Kelly tool, but had to build a "drop weight" to get consistant.

The Kelly tool with 3 dies gives 3 diameters from .222-.225, works well with the least expensive ammo, 36-gr high speed HP ammo improves the most, the HP pin failed, replaced it but use the flat nose and post HP that make good bullet shapes to fit various chambers, would not attempt to modify expensive match ammo. For single shot rifles and revolvers, the intent is to expand the bullet diameter and nose to fit snugly in the chambers but do not attempt to use those in semi-autos due to jams. I use washers, some sets glued together to adjust the depth of the pins and for safety use an arbor press to compress the pins. I'm ordering the WALTZ die mainly for the HP pin ability and I will measure its internal diameter and quality. I keep notes on a dozen 22 RF guns including two target grade rifles, best to use target grade ammo in them as making other 22 RF ammo shoot as well is out of the question. The only negative I have found is the flat nose accuracy well beyond 50 yds begins to fail due to the flat nose, best to shoot other nose shapes beyond 50 yds.

[facetious]

Dose any one still make trim dies to trim .22lr's to make flat points?

[AZ-JIM]

I am not much for hammering on ammo either, but wouldnt a small arbor press do the job? Combined with collars on the punches, ones that will accept them anyway there should be no issue. Im sure someone so inclined could come up with something that resembles a seating die in a rockchucker or "insert your single stage here...." as well.

az-jim

[AZ-JIM]

for safety use an arbor press to compress the pins.

Didnt skim read well enough....

az-jim

[too many things]

most times its not the ammo its the shooter and anything you do to ammo is not going to improve the shooter
We used rem target, which is a light load and from a win 52 or a rem 40 would shoot same hole every time
match ammo was no better. than any off the shelf 22s
I have a win 62 pump that has well over 300,000 fired , and has NEVER been cleaned from the 50s , and it will off rest, do same hole with any good 22 ammo
its not ammo its the shooter

[Markbo]

...its not ammo its the shooter.....

I hate that kind of cop out. The OP asked about ammo not how to be a better shooter. Altering ammo can definitely​ improve accuracy. I have documented it with Paco's tools, a Waltz sizing die and even an Eabco HP tool. 100% certain it works - no matter who is shooting.

[Herb in Pa]

most times its not the ammo its the shooter and anything you do to ammo is not going to improve the shooter
We used rem target, which is a light load and from a win 52 or a rem 40 would shoot same hole every time
match ammo was no better. than any off the shelf 22s
I have a win 62 pump that has well over 300,000 fired , and has NEVER been cleaned from the 50s , and it will off rest, do same hole with any good 22 ammo
its not ammo its the shooter At what distance?????????????