Best powder to get full power vel. In '06 case w/ cast???

[BOOM BOOM]

HI
What SURPLUS POWDER have you been able to get high velocity/ full power loads using cast bullets of about 170 gr. in the '06 case??????????

[Marlin Junky]

Probably your best bet of those that are currently available would be 844/846. Perhaps you can get lucky and find a slow batch of 846. HiTech's Long Range Match (Re15) sounds interesting.

MJ

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I have 2 jugs of WC 860, maybe 15 lbs. left, and about 7 lbs. Of IMR 4350.
FELT THE 4350 MIGHT BE A GOOD POWDER FOR THIS, but it is so expensive now I wanted to save it for j bullets. :Fire::Fire:

[MT Gianni]

I get good groups with WC860 @ 55-57 gr but velocity is around 2000 - 2100 fps.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
My best groups with WC860 WERE WITH 51 GRS. UNDER A 172GR, CAST BORE RIDER design. That was matched closely by 48gr. + Dacron under the same gas checked bullet.:Fire::Fire:

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I though IMR 4831, H450, H335, H250 might work except for 2 problems, pressure would be around 50,000psi, and they are SO EXPENSIVE NOW. DAG NAB IT!:Fire::Fire:

[leadman]

IMR4350 works well with the 314299, 206grs, sized .310" in my Savage 30-06. Velocity is almost 2,600 fps with 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards. After about 5 shots the bore has to be brushed.
Is not easy on the shoulder though, but is o.k. for a hunting round.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I would love to get a load around 2600'/s, in the '06.
I was able to get 2400-2500'/s out of a 444 Marlin with a 250 gr. which is a deer destroyer.
This is to be a hunting load.
the WC 852 looks promising. Has anyone tied it???????????????????????:Fire::Fire:

[Char-Gar]

I uses WC872 for top end cast bullet loads in the 30-06. For me "top end" means 2,000 K fps. Such a load will kill deer with ease.

[leadman]

I've loaded WC852 with pulled 150gr FMJ mil-surp bullets in the 30-06 for my Garand. Found it to be a touchy powder with pressure building very fast near the top end. I have heard there are different burn rates with different lots.
You should be able to get near jacketed velocities with the proper alloys but it will not be easy with WC852.
4350 or 4831 will be much easier to work with .

[atr]

Imr 4895

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
THANKS GUYS, But I am looking for a surplus powder as I can not really afford the canister powders anymore. WC 846 was suggested , has anyone tried it & got around 2,500'/s or hopefully better velocities???????????????
:Fire::Fire:

[turbo1889]

I am having good luck with duplex loads using a full case compressed load of surplus 50-BMG powders with an ignition charge of a couple grains of R-7 in the bottom directly over the primer. Specifically I am using WC867 & WC872 (I bought an 8# jug of each from wideners.com) and am loading LY311299's on top of it in the 308 & 30-06 and AM315-180B's on top of the same load set up in 7.62x54R & 303-brit.

I don't know what the velocity is since I haven’t run them over the Chrony yet but judging from the recoil produced they ain't no light load and they shoot nice tight groups.

[madsenshooter]

Turbo I'll bet that really cleans up the burn. Course that means you've got temp and pressure of ignition up, more like a 50 cal primer would do. I've used few grains of Blue Dot in my Krag with WC860 a few times, seemed to raise pressure higher than I cared to go with its single lug. Now a load in 06 with a bolt action might be interesting. All I have is my short barreled Madsen, too much boom factor!

[Char-Gar]

Turbo... I have shot about 16 lbs of WC872 and still have 48 pounds more. It is a fine cast bullet powder in cases that hold 40 grains or more of powder. I have not found a duplex/kicker charge needed in any bottle neck case. In the 45-70 case, it is another matter.

I am reluctant to discuss duplex loading on this board. It is safe IF a loader knows what he is doing. There are too many folks on this board who don't have the knowledge or common sense to do it. Do it wrong and the shooter can get into real trouble, real quick.

I drop the powder in through a 24" tube and use enough to get a lightly compressed powder column, when the bullet is seated.

WC872 was designed for and loaded in the 20mm Vulcan round. This powder delivers the best accuracy in the 30-06, 30-40 Krag and .308 of any I have tried. It is great stuff.

[turbo1889]

The safety and increased pressure potentials are the very reason I chose to use R-7 as my ignition charge. Much slower burning then any powder I have heard of being used for the purpose before; while still having a very stable controlled burn under a wide range of conditions at least that is its reputation when used by itself.

So far it is working great; although I don't deny the first round so loaded was a little worrisome. I previously used AA8700 before it was discontinued with no starter charge whatsoever. I found that the mil. surp. powder didn't have near the reliable ignition I was used too with the AA8700 when loaded in the same way. Thus why I considered a duplex starter charge and wanted to go with the slowest highly stable powder I knew of that works in low density loads when used by itself; that being R-7. If I were to try to use it in a smaller capacity to bore diameter cartridge such as 7.62x39 I might try something a little faster but still quite slow such as IMR 4227 as my ignition charge.

[Larry Gibson]

HI
What SURPLUS POWDER have you been able to get high velocity/ full power loads using cast bullets of about 170 gr. in the '06 case??????????

4895 is the best surplus powder to get full power loads out of the '06 with 170 gr cast bullets. Not hard to get 2600 - 2700 fps with it and keep pressures reasonable. Getting such with accuracy is another story.

Larry Gibson

[Dutch4122]

Best advice I can give is to go with slower burning powders than 4350. Thing is you are going to have to do a lot of experimenting and load development. I'm not very familiar with surplus powders, so I can't be of much help there.

On the other hand, if you are hunting, I would ask what are you trying to kill with a 170 grn boolit out of your 30-06? Does it need to be moving out at full jacketed speeds? If I was woods hunting for deer I'd be perfectly happy with a good 170 grn F/N @ 2,200 fps; which is not hard to obtain with accuracy and matches the best factory loads for the 30-30 WCF.

Hope this helps, :D

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I am trying to do better than a 30/30, in both velocity & energy. I know there are some members on this board who have done it, I was hoping they would chime in with some advice.:Fire::Fire:

[Larry Gibson]

You'll find those who claim truely "full power" loads in the '07 with 170 or so gr cast bullets are not doing it with surplus powders. What they consider "full power" is also many times not up to "full power" '06 jacketed loads with 170+ gr bullets (meaning 2640+ fps ).

As I said earlier; easy to do with 4895 but the accuracy is another story with a regular cast bullet. It can be done with a cast PP'd bullet and 4895 with very good hunting accuracy. You might consider that avenue.

Larry Gibson

[Char-Gar]

Turbo... The reason I don't like to discuss duplex loading on this board, is not because they are not useful and safe when used correctly.

The reason is, there are so many folks on this board with rudimentary knowledge and can't seem to follow simple direction. There are similar folks giving loading advise on matters way over their heads. Such folks can do major damage to themselves or others playing around with duplex loads.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well I would like to hunt both deer & elk. I do not feel 2,000-2,200"/s would be O.K. on elk.
But I have no experience w/ cast bullets on ELK, except with muzzle loaders of 58 cal. and can say they work JUST FINE,but that is a different game.

Has anyone hunted with cast, small cal. on elk?:Fire::Fire:

[leadman]

Many elk have been killed with 170 gr jacketed bullets that might get 2,200fps from the Win 94 carbine. I carried my Contender carbine in 30-30 Win with a 174gr 311041 2 years now in the junipers after elk but did not get the opportunity to use it. Yes, I think within reasonable range it will do the job.

[Larry Gibson]

Where I hunt elk shots can range from 25 to 500+ yards (I won't shoot at elk past 500 yards with '06 using 180 or 190 gr J bullets - just my own self imposed limit). Now days when I travel there to hunt I use J bullets and in all of 36 years hunting there (NE Oregon) I have only shot 1 elk past 200 yards. The expense and time spent for a once every 2 - 3 year elk hunt and a probable 30% chance of a bull means I don't want to limit myself with the cast bullet in the '06. I've seen numerous longer range shots made though so having to shoot longer distances is a real possibility (it is wide open country in many places and you are not going to get "closer", especialy when the elk are being pushed). Also the first 3 days if you shoot an elk you want it down as soon as possible because it is a foot race to it to tag/claim it.

However, when I lived there I did shoot a cow elk (late Mt Harris cow tag) with the 311041 cast of an alloy for hunting in the NRA pubs. The rifle was a Browning '06 with a 12" twist. the load was with old original 4831 and the velocity was right at 2200 fps (yes I did have an Oehler chronograph back then). I shot the cow twice at 80 - 100 yards +/- while she was quartering away. Entry for both bullets was behing the front leg through the heart/lung area (one hit the heart and the other was just above it) and both exited out the opposite side between the brisket and off shoulder. She was down within 30 -50 yards (slid down hill in snow) and was dead by the time I walked up to her. She was very good eating.

Larry Gibson

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I was wondering, felt it might be just not enough gun situation.
I have met some who hunt elk with 25/06 & 243's which always made me feel uneasy.
I confess I feel uneasy about trying it with my 7MM/06, with a lead bullet.:Fire::Fire:

[maxidiesel]

If you were using this bullet: 200gr FP-GC from RCBS mold # 30-180-FN ( actual bullet weight 200 grains)

In this gun: Rem. 700 30-06 SF 24"....with WC872 powder...what would be a reasonable load for 200yd max without leading the barrel up? (large deer, black bear, elk)

What's the "speed limit" on a gas check .30 caliber...how fast is too fast?
What would be a good amount of powder (WC872) to acheive this?
Thanks

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
NOT THE EXPERT ,with this caliber, but I feel the heavier bullet is better for hunting.
I have not done any better than about 2000'/s with any kind of accuracy.
Others like Larry,Marvin, & Felix have done much better than I. So here is hoping they chime in.