How much harder does alloy get with water quenching?

[cwskirmisher]

I cast some great looking boolits for my M1894 SRC from 50-50 mix and they shot fair. Size and lube I have eliminated now as the issue, but I am wondering if I am shooting them too soft. I don't think that I am driving them too fast (~1400 fps max). If I water quench them out of the mould, how much harder will that make them, and will that improve my results?

Rifle is a 1906 Win M1894 SRC
38-55 WCF
bore .379
Lee 379-250 sized to .381
21 grains IMR-4198

~4" group at 100 yds, bore fouled after 10 rounds with visible debris/shavings.

Shoots much better with commercial hard cast (.379) 225 gr, around 2" at 100 yds.

[Rangefinder]

I don't have a hardness tester, so I can't tell you exactly, but the hardness from water-quenching VS air cooled will depend on the antimony in the alloy. 50-50-----would that be referring to dead soft and ww? Maybe go to straight ww AC first.

[cwskirmisher]

I don't have a hardness tester, so I can't tell you exactly, but the hardness from water-quenching VS air cooled will depend on the antimony in the alloy. 50-50-----would that be referring to dead soft and ww? Maybe go to straight ww AC first.

Yes, 50/50 WW/Pb.

[HATCH]

try using 100% WW.

[BABore]

It will be dependent on your WW hardness and its antimony/arsenic content. I get 22 bhn with my 50/50 WW-Pb alloy when water dropped. I know of others that only get 17-18 bhn.

[JIMinPHX]

The alloy that I usually use is pretty close to WW. It comes up around 12-13bnh air cooled & around 23-24bnh water dropped. Different alloys change hardness by different amounts when they get water dropped. A buddy of mine told me the other day that his 50/50 WW/pure mix comes up around 17 or 18 when water dropped. I sometimes use another alloy in which I add about 15% babbit. That comes up over 30bnh water dropped. I can go take a hardness measurement if you want an accurate number on that one.

[bobthenailer]

WW water dropped avg 25 bhn
WW / lead , 50/50 mix water dropped about 16 bhn
i have done the testing with a LBT hardness tester
i would recomend verls smiths book on bullet casting from lbt ! i have 3 different edtions 1,2,3ed

[Markbo]

Hmmmm... my straight wheel weight ingots measure out to around 9 BNH.

[Suo Gan]

Since I have a lot of pure, I mix it as you do. I usually come up with 7-9 BHN air cooled and 17 BHN water dropped. Straight up WW is about 10-13 BHN air cooled and 18-22+ BHN water dropped. I add 2 percent tin for fillout using 50-50. Have not needed to oven temper my boolits using 50-50, but have heard you can expect about 20 BHN if you do so.

You say that the factory boolits don't do this. What lube are you using? Perhaps the factory lube is of better quality than your own?? In the process of elimination, I would try water dropping your current alloy, load them and shoot them. When you clean it this time, run a tight patch down her tube and see if you can note any constrictions especially under the roll marks. It may need to be fire lapped. Run down the list of easiest things to change to hardest.

[runfiverun]

that 16-17 bjn from 50-50 sounds bout right.
i had a hard time getting over 1400 in my marlin 375 win with a 379 sized boolit.
i finally had to just use a gas check.
you may be able to clean up the gunk in the bbl by waterdropping but i doubt you'll get much more velocity.

[cwskirmisher]

that 16-17 bjn from 50-50 sounds bout right.
i had a hard time getting over 1400 in my marlin 375 win with a 379 sized boolit.
i finally had to just use a gas check.
you may be able to clean up the gunk in the bbl by waterdropping but i doubt you'll get much more velocity.

I had to let the barrel soak overnight with T17 foam, and it did remove the majority of the stuff in there, but what I am finding is that there is lots and lots of carbon fouling in the first third of the barrel - most likely from years of shooting BP out of it. In any case, not looking for more velocity, just better accuracy using my own cast.

[cwskirmisher]

Since I have a lot of pure, I mix it as you do. I usually come up with 7-9 BHN air cooled and 17 BHN water dropped. Straight up WW is about 10-13 BHN air cooled and 18-22+ BHN water dropped. I add 2 percent tin for fillout using 50-50. Have not needed to oven temper my boolits using 50-50, but have heard you can expect about 20 BHN if you do so.

You say that the factory boolits don't do this. What lube are you using? Perhaps the factory lube is of better quality than your own?? In the process of elimination, I would try water dropping your current alloy, load them and shoot them. When you clean it this time, run a tight patch down her tube and see if you can note any constrictions especially under the roll marks. It may need to be fire lapped. Run down the list of easiest things to change to hardest.

I am using a mix of Carnuba Red and 50/50 Alox/BW. The commercial cast have a dark blue lube, don't know what it is. The barrel is fine (other than age), crisp rifling, but lots of carbon fouling from the throat thru the first third. I am getting that out, slooowly, and once that is out, I should have better luck with the water quenched.

[Suo Gan]

I am using a mix of Carnuba Red and 50/50 Alox/BW. The commercial cast have a dark blue lube, don't know what it is. The barrel is fine (other than age), crisp rifling, but lots of carbon fouling from the throat thru the first third. I am getting that out, slooowly, and once that is out, I should have better luck with the water quenched.

Use some GM Tec or Sea Foam on the carbon. I think that your boolits are being sized down a thousandth or more in the first two thirds of your barrel and then when they get to the part of the barrel not fouled your boolit does not form a gas barrier and permits blowby. Anyway, its just a guess. Perhaps after a good cleaning you could shoot the air cooled boolits just fine. My guess is that the commercial boolits are using LBT lube, which is darn good stuff.

[ahhbach]

If I were you I wouldn't cast any new but take your Sized bulets and Temper them... take a bullet and put it into your oven (good idea if the mrs has been sent elsewhere) and raise the heat incrementally until your Boolit sloughs over. Drop the heat about 100 degrees and bake a few for a few minutes then immediately douse into cold water. This will save you casting time by allowing you to effectively water quench your already sized boolits.