$1 Lead Smelter

[454PB]

I used a plumbers pot for smelting for many years, I melted down several thousand pound of WW and linotype with it. Unfortunately, when I moved to a new house two years ago, the plumbers pot didn't. All my ingots did make the move, so I really had no need to do any smelting on a large scale until recently. A friend gave me two counter weights from his small tractor, which are pure lead and too big to get into any of the casting pots I have.

I stopped by an appliance repair shop near my home, and asked if they had any electric range elements that had been removed from scrapped stoves. They did, so I bought two matching elements for $2.

My casting/reloading room is electrically heated, plus I have a 40 amp 240 volt outlet for my welder. I made this rig up in about 30 minutes as an experiment, and it worked very well. The supporting base is a coffee can that I stabilized by filling it with 30 pounds of lead. The heating element has three metal supports incorporated that fit into some notches I filed into the top of the coffee can. I also had to cut a small slot in the side of the can to clear one leg of the heating element.

I connected a cord to the element and plugged it into one of my 20 amp 240 volt heater outlets. I then put one of the 35 pound tractor counter weights in an 8" pressure cooker pot and turned it on. 25 minutes latter, the counter weight was in ingot form.

I'm well aware that there are some safety concerns here, and the setup needs some modification, but it was very stable and worked great.

255014
Here is the heating element as received. I used a clamp on ammeter to determine that it is 3000 watts

255015
This picture shows one of the notches I filed in the top of the coffee can to stabilize the element and weight of the pot.

255016
This is the result, and it worked quite well for a $1 dollar smelter.

[Bret4207]

Good job! I use an $8.00 Walmart hot plate and it works fine for me. Not asclassy as a $250.00 RCBS super pot, but the end result is the same.

[dragonrider]

Any idea what it would take to make the temp of the ring adjustable???????? This has given me an idea for a new casting pot.

[DLCTEX]

I just used the switch from an old cook top to adjust the heat on my home made smelting pot. It has nine positions from high to low.

[Uncle Grinch]

We all try to make something out of seemingly unusable discarded items. My casting area is littered with various propane cookers from which I have put together my cooker using an old "smoker base" and a large cast iron dutch oven pot. The base is welded iron bar with a large iron ring for the pot to sit on.

While I can load up to 60 pounds in it with np worry at all, I am always looking for that bigger pot!

[grumpy one]

It is interesting that the heat output was sufficient to melt so much lead so quickly. Did the element get bright red? If so it probably won't last long.

The safety aspect of what you used for the try-out is, as you implied, quite awful, but can be improved without invalidating your concept. Just adding one of the simmerstats from the same stove, so you can control the heat, plus some decent flexible conduit around the wires, a proper ground, a tin box around the terminals, etc. can turn this into something a lot of people might be able to copy usefully. I suggest you also try standing on top of the element (when it is cool of course) to verify that the coffee can is strong enough to support the weight safely. If not, making a steel stand should only take a few minutes. If you can make this invention safe while still using standard bits from old stoves etc., it might make a useful step forward for those of us using gasoline or propane heating. Properly-designed electrical heating is safer and cheaper to run.

[454PB]

I agree. The scariest part is the exposed electrical connections. They should be covered, but having worked in and around energized electrical equipment for 35 years in power plants, it is not scary to me.

I'm ahead of you on the weight bearing, I've already stood on it.

As to how long the element will last, I can't say. So far it's run wide open for 2 hours without any signs of trouble. Yes, a switch or thermostat could be added, but so far I've not needed it. I add and remove lead fast enough that it never needs modulation for smelting. If I was casting from it, then it would. I was a bit surprised how quickly it heated, I had my infrared thermometer on it the first time I fired it up. Within 60 seconds, the bottom of the melting pot was at 450 degrees.

One of the reasons I even tried this is that I normally run a 3000 watt electric heater in this room anyway......might as well kill two birds with one stone. It got nice and warm in there while running this.

[Old Ironsights]

Good job! I use an $8.00 Walmart hot plate and it works fine for me. Not asclassy as a $250.00 RCBS super pot, but the end result is the same.

While the Hotplates do work... eventually, as far as I know most run to a maximum of 1500 watts. Too slow for me. I had to go to a porpane single burner. The one described above doubles (or trebels) the wattage of a consumer hot plate.

Very cool. (hot?)

[Springfield]

Somehow I doubt that running a 3000 watt melter is cheaper than using propane. But it is easier to use indoors if you want to do that sort of thing. I prefer my Turkey fryer, plus I tend to melt 150 lbs at a time. Just ingotized and alloyed 1600 lbs of sailboat ballast. Been thinking of making this same sort of contraption as a melter to feed my 22 lb furnace, it can't keep up with a LEE six holer mould. I have a 1500 watt hotplate, been thinkng of upgrading to something a little larger.

[rbstern]

I use the $8 Wal-Mart hot plate, too. For dealing with small amounts of lead, it's perfect.

Bret, what do you use on the hot plate? I find that anything larger than a 1 qt saucepan takes too long to get hot.

[454PB]

Somehow I doubt that running a 3000 watt melter is cheaper than using propane. But it is easier to use indoors if you want to do that sort of thing. I prefer my Turkey fryer, plus I tend to melt 150 lbs at a time. Just ingotized and alloyed 1600 lbs of sailboat ballast. Been thinking of making this same sort of contraption as a melter to feed my 22 lb furnace, it can't keep up with a LEE six holer mould. I have a 1500 watt hotplate, been thinkng of upgrading to something a little larger.

Good point, and I'm sure you are right. So what does it cost to use propane? How many pounds of lead can be melted with a 20 lb. propane bottle? When I was using the plumbers pot, I could smelt 400 pounds with about a gallon of unleaded gas.

I recently filled a 20 lb. propane bottle, and it was $16.

As a rough comparison, I figure it's about .3 cents per pound to use the electric element. Where I live, electricity is 10 cents per KWH. That means it costs 30 cents an hour to power a 3000 watt heater. So, it would cost me $30 worth of electricity to smelt 1000 pounds of lead. For me that is amortized by the fact that I heat the casting room electrically anyway. I'm guessing that propane would cost about half of that.

So, I should be able to melt 2000 pounds with 30$ ( two bottle fillings) worth of propane. Is that about right?

I also need to point out that this has the convenience of being set up in about 5 minutes, and can be used in an enclosed space. I'm aware of all the health warnings about smelting without proper ventilation.

[largecaliberman]

I used a plumbers pot for smelting for many years, I melted down several thousand pound of WW and linotype with it. Unfortunately, when I moved to a new house two years ago, the plumbers pot didn't. All my ingots did make the move, so I really had no need to do any smelting on a large scale until recently. A friend gave me two counter weights from his small tractor, which are pure lead and too big to get into any of the casting pots I have.

I stopped by an appliance repair shop near my home, and asked if they had any electric range elements that had been removed from scrapped stoves. They did, so I bought two matching elements for $2.

My casting/reloading room is electrically heated, plus I have a 40 amp 240 volt outlet for my welder. I made this rig up in about 30 minutes as an experiment, and it worked very well. The supporting base is a coffee can that I stabilized by filling it with 30 pounds of lead. The heating element has three metal supports incorporated that fit into some notches I filed into the top of the coffee can. I also had to cut a small slot in the side of the can to clear one leg of the heating element.

I connected a cord to the element and plugged it into one of my 20 amp 240 volt heater outlets. I then put one of the 35 pound tractor counter weights in an 8" pressure cooker pot and turned it on. 25 minutes latter, the counter weight was in ingot form.

I'm well aware that there are some safety concerns here, and the setup needs some modification, but it was very stable and worked great.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/Dollar%20Smelter/Electricelement.jpg
Here is the heating element as received. I used a clamp on ammeter to determine that it is 3000 watts

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/Dollar%20Smelter/Elementnotch.jpg
This picture shows one of the notches I filed in the top of the coffee can to stabilize the element and weight of the pot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/Dollar%20Smelter/Smelter.jpg
This is the result, and it worked quite well for a $1 dollar smelter.

Have you think about running the current through a thermostat to control the heat?:drinks:

[mommicked]

Where can you find a used plumber's pot? I asked a few older plumbers about them and they acted like I was looking for moon rocks.:confused:

[454PB]

I wish I knew, I'd get another one. I think it's about the most efficient (fuel wise) way to smelt. I don't think plumbers use lead joints anymore, they've all gone to PVC pipe.

[mommicked]

I've still got around 800 lbs of pure lead plus a bucket full of ww. Now for deer season to end so I can make time. (Course I should be in the woods now, but that's another story).

You can often find a house being remoldeled and get an old cooktop. That has the controls built in, and usually take a 30 Amp 240v circuit IIRC. Mount that in your shop....and you could brew coffee when not smelting.:coffee:

[454PB]

I will repeat that this was a quick, short term usage project. If I have a ton of WWs to smelt, I would have gone to more trouble and expense. I had thought about heat control thermostats, switches, relays, etc., but found that it does just fine running wide open. Any time it didn't need to be running full blast, I just flipped the breaker, but that only happened at the end of a smelting session. I have thermostatically controlled bottom pour casting pots, this was assembled to melt some 35 pound blocks of pure lead into ingots, which is did very quickly and easily.

[Edward429451]

RE the where of plumbers pots etc..

Try

Bullet Metals
Bill Ferguson, Metallurgist
P.O. Box 1238
Sierra Vista AZ 85636

This guy has a wide array of pots & accessories. I never actually ordered anything from him due to the poor man syndrome but have his flyer. It is a few yrs old so hopefully he's still around. Sorry I couldn't find a phone number for him in his lit.

[TAWILDCATT]

get a turkey fryer.they are much like plummers burners.I don not think they make plummers pots any more as they are phaseing out lead.
wildcatt

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

454PB,

I think you did a great job. Low initial investment, effective and simple. Got the job done. What else can you ask for?

For those interested in plumber's pots to get increased fuel efficiency,

You can get very close to the efficiency of a plumber's pot by modifying a turkey cooker to do a better job of holding the heat in. Here's a picture of one I modified and it works very well. I can do quite a significant number of wheel weights with a single cannister of propane:

http://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/TurkeyCookerMods%20006.jpg

http://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/TurkeyCookerMods%20007.jpg

http://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/TurkeyCookerMods%20004.jpg

http://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/TurkeyCookerMods%20001.jpg

Regards,

Dave

[3sixbits]

http://www.theantimonyman.com/ Mr. Bill is alive and well as of last week when I talked to him on the phone. His number is on his web page.

[Tom W.]

When in my foolish and misspent youth I melted lead for my Ragnose on the electric kitchen stove, I always ended up blowing out elements. Finally got a cheap LEE pot, and did better. Now I have two. For Melting down WW and such I use a turkey fryer.

But for a dollar you can't beat your project.

[cropcirclewalker]

I will probably ketch he doubletoothpicks fer this but I have been dreaming about wood gasification.

http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgas

Is a flaming liberal tree hugger site but scroll down till you come to

"A Wood-gas Stove For Developing Countries" and click on the .pdf which shows how to build a slick wood gas stove made out of coffey and paint cans and burns for 35 or 40 minutes, smoke free equivalent to an electric stove burner.

Hey,

If it melts a pot of lead for smelting and works on scrap lumber........I will be happy to post a message to the site telling how it would be great for boollit making.

I just don't have the time right now.

[scrapcan]

cropcircle walker,

you just have to look at it in different perspective. Some parts of the country (CA, CO, OR) you would be a tree hugger/environmentalist/etc..., in another part (MT or AK) you could be considered a survivalist or seclusionist or ... well you get the picture.

If it comes to the dark days you may have heat and the people who thought you were in a some named camp above will be looking for you to help them out of the pickle.

By the way, I want to know how this type of stove works for you. I have been watching items on Journey to forever, homepower, and many other sites for many years, wish I had more time to build and work with some of the ideas that are brought up.

[Shawrco]

RE the where of plumbers pots etc..

Try

Bullet Metals
Bill Ferguson, Metallurgist
P.O. Box 1238
Sierra Vista AZ 85636

This guy has a wide array of pots & accessories. I never actually ordered anything from him due to the poor man syndrome but have his flyer. It is a few yrs old so hopefully he's still around. Sorry I couldn't find a phone number for him in his lit.

Bill is a good guy, the Rowell ladles are the best! I thought Plumbers pots could be had via Buffalo Arms but I guess they've stopped carrying them. I just looked and no joy, but here's something like the turkey fryer/fish cooker setup that I use:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4500.htm

[Dale53]

You can get a turkey cooker for a good bit less than that:
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&partNumber=33053&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults

This one includes a cast iron Dutch oven (8 qts). Just make sure that ANY cooker you buy is sturdy enough not to collapse when you have 100-200 lbs of molten lead on it.

Dale53

[Edward429451]

My 8 qt dutch oven was about 3/4 full sittin on the side burner of my casting grill when it told me to make some legs for that side. I didn't know I could leap that far dancin with the tinsel fairy.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

You can get a turkey cooker for a good bit less than that:
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&partNumber=33053&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults

This one includes a cast iron Dutch oven (8 qts). Just make sure that ANY cooker you buy is sturdy enough not to collapse when you have 100-200 lbs of molten lead on it.

Dale53


I have this setup, have modified it to work very much like a plumber's pot. It's pretty efficient now.

Regards,

Dave

[HTRN]

I'd like to point out that MSC sells Plumbers Pots (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1981339&PMT4NO=0).

Note that it's A) $140, and B) only 43K BTU.


HTRN

[alamogunr]

I'd like to point out that MSC sells Plumbers Pots (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1981339&PMT4NO=0).

Note that it's A) $140, and B) only 43K BTU.


HTRN

That is exactly what Bill Ferguson sells. Don't remember what I paid for it. I got mine from him several years ago along with a 40# cast iron pot and shield that fits on top. The shield helps to hold the heat close to the pot. I use it for ladle casting rather than smelting. My smelting pot holds 250#+

[454PB]

A bit of an update here.....

I made a new ingot mould the other day and decided to try it out. Yesterday I fired up my $1 smelter and melted 106 pound of WW and cast into ingots. It took an hour and 45 minutes. The heating element is still working fine, and has now melted right at 400 pounds of alloy.

5060

[Old Ironsights]

I will probably ketch he doubletoothpicks fer this but I have been dreaming about wood gasification.

http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgas

Is a flaming liberal tree hugger site but scroll down till you come to

"A Wood-gas Stove For Developing Countries" and click on the .pdf which shows how to build a slick wood gas stove made out of coffey and paint cans and burns for 35 or 40 minutes, smoke free equivalent to an electric stove burner.

Hey,

If it melts a pot of lead for smelting and works on scrap lumber........I will be happy to post a message to the site telling how it would be great for boollit making.

I just don't have the time right now.

Fun thing about wood-gas stoves is that if you gassify Alder you are also making the world's best charcoal for making Black Powder... :twisted:

[Trez Hensley]

Talked to Bill Ferguson last night, he is alive and well. Seemed very helpful, me being a new guy and all. Even suggested less expensive tools to start out with as opposed to trying to sell me his top of the line outfit. Enjoyed talking to him. He does have some nice stuff for sale on his web site.

Nice job on the smelter. I already had propane before I started or I'd make me one.

[smokemjoe]

Would the control out of the hot plate work in my bured out Lyman pot ? Thanks

[smokemjoe]

Would the control out of a hot plate work in my burned out Lyman pot, just a idea. Joe

[OeldeWolf]

I would like to point out that "wood gas" is the same as the old "water gas" used in the days of gas lighting, and is basicaly carbon monoxide, which is EXTREMELY poisonous. Even if you have good general ventilation, a release can concievably cause health problems (aka death). Remember, CO works by taking up the hemoglobin sites used to carry O2 around the body, so there are rarely symptoms before you are headed to see father grandcaster.

[MT Gianni]

I would like to point out that "wood gas" is the same as the old "water gas" used in the days of gas lighting, and is basicaly carbon monoxide, which is EXTREMELY poisonous. Even if you have good general ventilation, a release can concievably cause health problems (aka death). Remember, CO works by taking up the hemoglobin sites used to carry O2 around the body, so there are rarely symptoms before you are headed to see father grandcaster.

400 partsper million [ppm] causes a headache in 1 hr exposure, 625 ppm causes nasea, vomiting and disorientation, 800-1000 ppm is lethal for 1 hr exposure in air for the average human. [160 lbs, 39 years old, reasonably good health]. Those #'s equal 9ppm in blood for those studying to be an expert witness in CO, not that I would recommend it. Gianni

[454PB]

Funny you guys would be talking about CO poisoning. It's one of the reasons I like using an electric smelter. The only possible source of CO is flux or the grease on the wheelweights.

[Saint]

I used to cast in a cast iron frying pan on an electric hot plate and my bullets came out wrinkled no matter how many balls i ran through it. Finally bought a cheap lee lead pot and found that I should never have tried electric to begin with. It was a night and day difference. The frying pan does work ok for smelting, but if you are going to be working with any alloys that have a higher melting point it gets more difficult.

[DLCTEX]

I just read this again today and it appears the old pressure cooker pot is aluminum. If so, that is courting disaster as it will weaken over time and may collapse.

[Chill Wills]

I have been told that Bill's health and age have ended his business. However, his web sight is still up
http://www.theantimonyman.com/schuetzenbook.htm



RE the where of plumbers pots etc..
Try
Bullet Metals
Bill Ferguson, Metallurgist
P.O. Box 1238
Sierra Vista AZ 85636

This guy has a wide array of pots & accessories. I never actually ordered anything from him due to the poor man syndrome but have his flyer. It is a few yrs old so hopefully he's still around. Sorry I couldn't find a phone number for him in his lit.

[Gliden07]

You can also get the wattage of those elements on the bottom braces its usually stamped into one of them with the voltage.

[alamogunr]

RE the where of plumbers pots etc..

Try

Bullet Metals
Bill Ferguson, Metallurgist
P.O. Box 1238
Sierra Vista AZ 85636

This guy has a wide array of pots & accessories. I never actually ordered anything from him due to the poor man syndrome but have his flyer. It is a few yrs old so hopefully he's still around. Sorry I couldn't find a phone number for him in his lit.




Bill is a good guy, the Rowell ladles are the best! I thought Plumbers pots could be had via Buffalo Arms but I guess they've stopped carrying them. I just looked and no joy, but here's something like the turkey fryer/fish cooker setup that I use:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4500.htm



This thread is almost 8 years old and resurrecting it has brought contact information for Bill Ferguson to a current post. Please check out this thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?227273-Bill-Ferguson-quot-The-Antimony-Man-quot-Out-of-Business

I don't know what it would take to shut down his web site but it needs to be done. Bill has been out of business for over a year now and I don't even know if he is still living.

[wv109323]

454PB
Did you have to be selective in the element you bought? I know the wattage should be about the same for the same size burner but were there some burners that were structurally stronger than others? If so Did you remember the brand of element?
The idea is great. I am thinking of using a piece of heavy wall pipe and putting the control switch in the side of the pipe. The problem with that would you would have your hand below the heated material to adjust the temp.

[fast ronnie]

454PB,

I think you did a great job. Low initial investment, effective and simple. Got the job done. What else can you ask for?

For those interested in plumber's pots to get increased fuel efficiency,

You can get very close to the efficiency of a plumber's pot by modifying a turkey cooker to do a better job of holding the heat in. Here's a picture of one I modified and it works very well. I can do quite a significant number of wheel weights with a single cannister of propane:

http://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/TurkeyCookerMods%20006.jpg

http://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/TurkeyCookerMods%20007.jpg

http://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/TurkeyCookerMods%20004.jpg

http://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/TurkeyCookerMods%20001.jpg

Regards,

Dave

I like your turkey friar set-up. It gives me some ideas. I've got the frier, cut a propane tank in two already. Just need to make a stand, and yours looks just about right to me. :smile:

[454PB]

When I walked into the appliance repair shop, there were literally hundreds of removed elements lying around. I picked these two for the flatness of the elements.

I'm well aware of the warnings about using aluminum. While I don't promote their use, this particular pot has melted several TONS of lead with no problems. I have other melting vessels made of steel, but I actually prefer the pressure cooker for it's quick heat conduction. I had a cast iron pot once, dropped it, and it cracked. At least it was empty when it happened.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I like your turkey friar set-up. It gives me some ideas. I've got the frier, cut a propane tank in two already. Just need to make a stand, and yours looks just about right to me. :smile:

Ronnie,

One thing you need to be aware of, especially in California, is wheel weights and their compositions have changed a good bit since my original posting. I strongly advise getting a thermometer and keeping the temperature of your melt very close to the melting point of lead. Otherwise, you're quite likely to get some zinc in your smelt and ruin your lead for casting.

On the other hand, if you use a thermometer and keep the temperature within the specificed range (see more recent posts by me on this subject), you will get good lead and the zinc wheel weights, as well and the steel clips and any other nasties will float to the top to be skimmed out.

[edler7]

Hook up a PID for the power source, throw a thermocouple in the pot and you would never have to worry about zinc wheel weights melting.

Nice rig for $1.

[10x]

Any idea what it would take to make the temp of the ring adjustable???????? This has given me an idea for a new casting pot.

A PID with a thermocouple and a SSR (Solid state relay)
I have been considering setting up a system that does not heat over 550F to melt lead wheel weights out of zinc. Pure lead weights melt at about 620 F, And zinc melts at over 700F.
Discovering the PID temp control system has been interesting for me to say the least