Tell me about this gun

[NoZombies]

I like shooting the .32 S&W long... a lot. I think that if there's a handgun that would be a "holy grail" for me, it would be one of the K-32 Smith and Wesson's. I don't have the kind of money it would take to make one of those become mine.

While at the gun-show yesterday, I found a gun that I had never heard of before. I wasn't sure about it, so I went home and did some research last night, and could find NOTHING about the gun.

I went back today, and made a trade that might not have been that great, but I really wanted the gun, and I'm hoping to get good use out of it.

It's a Rossi "M293" and has "Ruko, Bufallo NY" for the import marks, and "Ruko of Canada Limited, Missasaugua, Ontario. It's got a 6" barrel and is marked for the .32 S&W long. The barrel has a raised vented rib, and heavy under-rib. The under-rib is grooved for barrel weights. It came with 2 weights. The sights seem good, and other than some handling marks, The gun looks really clean. The action is very good. I'd say that it rivals or betters most of my pre-war S&W's for trigger pull in single action, and smoothness and trigger pull in double action.

It's not a K-32, but for now, it'll fill the same role that one would.

I'm hoping that someone out there will know more about the gun, I've exhausted my google-fu, and can find no mention of this model.

http://nozombies.com/cast/rossi.jpg

[TCLouis]

Looking at the way the gun is set up I would think they designed it to be a target shooter.

Get ye some ammo loaded and lets see just what it will do.

A smidgen of Bulls Eye or Red Dot and a WC ought to provide for some interesting shooting.

[NoZombies]

Yup, that's the plan, I'm hoping to test it this week. I've got some ammo loaded to test in the .32 rifle as well, so I'll break out the chrony and some targets, and see what I can get both of 'em to do. I'd love to find a load that works accurately in both.

So far my favorite load in the 32 long has been 1.9 grains of tight-group under a 90 SWC, be that
SWC the lee TL, the Lyman 313445 or a swaged hornady. I'm trying up and down from there, and a few other powders to see what happens.

[scrapcan]

Did you try the serial number look up on the Rossi website?

http://www.rossiusa.com/find-model.cfm


I will look in some old books I have to see if there is some info available.

I have had good luck with the older Rossi revolvers. I think you can find springs and parts for this model.

[NoZombies]

Thanks for the Link! When the serial is types in, it tells me that no match can be found, so I'm back to square one. Google isn't doing much good, so if you've got any info, it'd be great!

The gun seems pretty neat, and better built than most of the other Rossi's I've handled. Since the .32 long is such a low powered cartridge, I'd bet it'll take many decades to wear out... :)

[JIMinPHX]

Rossi revolvers that were imported by anyone other than the current importer (Braztech or something like that ) are not covered under the warranty. if you are not under the warranty, then repairs are hard to get.

The steel used on the Rossi that I messed with was pretty darn soft. The star on the back of the cylinder was much smaller in diameter than the ones that you see on a Smith K-frame. The one that I messed with was stamped .357 mag on the barrel, but in my opinion, it was not up to the task of handling that kind of pressure. A number of parts on the gun were really not up to the task. I'll leave out all the gory details.

In .32 cal, one of them might hold up a lot better. The one that I messed with did have a good barrel & a good trigger.

Rossi revolvers go for short cash. Don't overpay for it. You will not get much back if you go to sell it later.

[scrapcan]

I forgot that the above website only covers the ones that were after the merger of Rossi and Taurus.

here is some thing that might help

http://www.pmulcahy.com/revolvers/brazilian_revolvers-rossi.htm

you might look to see if it is is a target model 69. If it is earlier than that it may take a while to dig up info.

[NoZombies]

Thanks guys. I'm pretty sure it's not a target version of the 69, by the description, but I've been wrong before. The tiny bit of info I've gotten anyplace is that Rossi brought a few revolvers into Canada for a special sponsored target match that never happened, and then a few of 'em made it to the US as samples. I guess they considered making a bunch of 'em, but the interest wasn't there. I've been told that this revolver might be one of those.

I'm not too worried about the .32 caliber, but I'm also pretty sure this was a specialty gun, of one type or another, and whether that means anything for the steel, I dunno, but the finish is wayyy better than any standard Rossi I've seen. I'll find out how it shoots this week, weather permitting.

[HeavyMetal]

Curious to see what turns up on this pistol!

Have had an urge for a 32 wc gun for years but just never hit the right combo of cash and availibilty if you know what I mean.

I think your looking at a pre production run made before the Taurus contract. My thought is see if you can find someone that worked at Interarms and check to see if you can find out who the Canadian importer was. If they are still the Rossi dealer they may have records.

By the look of the gun I'm going to guess that it was made in the mid 70's ( 73 -74) but this is just a guess based on other Rossi's I saw advertised about that time.

Good luck

[NoZombies]

I'm waiting to hear back from Rossi, but I'm betting they aren't gonna be too helpful.

On the grip frame I found the additional markings " IV 88"

I don't know if that has anything to do with a manufacture date or not, but maybe?

[Mk42gunner]

I have been watching this thread to see what info would turn up.

My guess is that it was made in the mid to late 1980's; due mainly to the barrel configuration, not a lot of "Pythonesque" barrels were made until S&W started making L-frames in the early 80's (IIRC). Ruger started making the GP-100 series with heavy barrels during the same timeframe.

Of course, after that it was hard to find a new limited production (aka gun of the week) Smith that didn't have the underlug.

From what I remember about Rossi revolvers, it should be okay with standard .32 S&W Long loads. From the looks of the gun itself, it is probably intended for the 98gr WC at target velocities, and you may run out of sight adjustment if you push those parameters very much.

Robert

[NoZombies]

It'll be later in the week before I get to take the gun to the range, but I did slug the barrel and the throats.

The barrel slugs at .312" and the end of the throats slug at .313". It occurred to me rather odd the way the slugs felt to have continual increasing resistance while being pushed through the cylinder, so I checked, and it appears to be an odd reamer they used in chambering this one. Rather than a conventional ball seat, there seems to be a straight taper from .314" at the case mouth to .313" at the front of the cylinder.

I'll try sizing .314 and see what happens. I've got a lot of .313 SWC's already loaded, so I'll see how they do at that size as well.

[HeavyMetal]

Here's a wierd twist what if this is actually a LLama?

Honestly thats the name thats been floating around in my head for a few days.

Sure looks like a Commanche from the mid 70's and they did make a 32 caliber Olympico model
That is all the info I have other than the idea this may be another Spainish gun "merger" to fit a market that never happened.

[NoZombies]

Interesting Theory.

It's marked "Made in Brasil" in several places though, so it might be a Llama design, but it's doubtful anyone outside of Brazil manufactured it. The Brazilian companies and the Spanish companies haven't always gotten along real well, there's a language barrier that probably contributes, Brazil speaks Portuguese and Spain speaks that other one....

I'll have to keep an eye out for one of the "olympico's" in .32. I like weird guns... what can I say?

I'm suspecting that the 88 under the grips indicates the year of manufacture. There are assembly numbers as well, and the 88 wouldn't match those.

[Bret4207]

Ya know, that thing might just be a shooter. I've run across quite a few "cheapy" guns that turned out to be great shooters. Maybe the finish and fit wasn't up to pre-War Smith standards and maybe the metal was a little softer than we'd prefer, but if they shoot I'm happy. You have the added benefit of real sights, always a good thing.

[scrapcan]

Tony,

I think you may have a Rossi model 88, I think they were available in 32.

[NoZombies]

Jeremy,

I'll look into that possibility.

I've found one other guy who has a similar gun, his response on another forum is quoted below (I left out his information, for privacy's sake) It's interesting to note that mine has the same crane lock as a S&W, and apparently better internal lockwork. His is also marked as a M293 (as indicated in the title of his response on the other forum)


I too would be interested in more info on this revolver. I picked up one of these a few years back, and up to now was the only one I had seen. There are no references to this pistol ever being made by Rossi so I assumed it was possibly a prototype or short production run designed for Intl Centerfire. The Taurus model suggested by Paulo is a larger frame revolver than the .32 but does appear similar. Mine was furnished with a rubber presentation style grip. the fit and finish is quite good compared to other Rossi pistols I've seen, but it could still benefit from an additional lock on the crane. the trigger is terrible on my example. A good smith may be able to smooth out the trigger, but I have serious doubts that it could ever be refined to the level of a standard S&W trigger job. Mine was shipped in it's original box with weights and paperwork (generic to all Rossi revolvers). Made in Brazil and imported to the US by Interarms. A dated pamphlet in the box indicates that it was imported around 1999.

[NoZombies]

Well, I took the Rossi out to the range with me on Thursday, and did some shooting.

I tried several loads, and found that the gun is picky. It likes the very slow WC loads, and what I'd have to call 32 S&W long +P loads.

I only had 10 of the "hot" loads with me, and I fired the first 5 from my rifle. The rifle liked the load as well, but it's a little hotter from the 18" barrel than what I want to lob at squirrels.

The last 5 of the load, I shot from the revolver at the other target I set up, just for fun.

http://nozombies.com/cast/rossi-targ.jpg

I'm sure it's an unrepeatable fluke, but I don't think I've ever shot a 2" group with an open sighted revolver at 100 yards before. Heck the frint sight pretty much covered the entire target, so I was trying to guess where "center" was for the black portion.

The load:
Ideal 313445 90 grain SWC cast from air cooled WW's. sized .313 and crimped in the crimp groove.
Federal SP primer.
2.3 grains Tight-Group.
R-P Brass.

This load is too hot for early hand ejectors, and way too hot for break-top revolvers. it should only be used in guns as strong as, or stronger than, J-frame S&W's. This load should be fine in any gun chambered for the 32 H&R magnum.

[NoDakJak]

Back in the late eighties or early ninties I was looking fora K-32 but was having no luck. A dealer informed me that Taurus had stated that they were going to manufacture there version of the gun so I plunked down my earnest money. About six months later i was handed my money back and informed that Taurus had decided not to introduce the revolver due to a lack of market interest. If I remember correctly it was going to be chambered to 32 H&R rather than 32 S&W Long. I sure wish they had gone ahead and introduced that reevolver. Neil

[BCall]

I think I have the brother to that one. perhaps this is one of the ones that NoDakJak was referring to . It is not visibly marked with a model #, but I believe it is a 761 or 741. I wish I had the 32 Long of NoZombies to go with it. Mine is a 32 Mag Taurus. It does shoot very well, maybe not as good as a Smith, but I got this one at a fraction of the cost. I also wish it had a full lug barrel, but it works well.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/blcall/SN851258.jpg

[NoZombies]

Thanks for the Info Nodak and BCall, I'll keep an eye out for one of those Taurus pistols. It looks good, and I don't think I'll ever feel like I have too many .32's around.

What's your favorite load in that Taurus B?

[BCall]

Currently, about 4 gr of Herco under the Ranchdog 115 gr .313 boolit. Just tumble lube and run through a .314 sizer. 7 gr of 2400 worked well also. I have several new molds to try though. Haven't yet had a chance to test them. Just plinking around I use 32 Long brass with a light load of promo and the 313226. Of couse I may just use whatever trips my trigger at the time. I have a quite a few 32 molds to go with the ever increasing 32 revolver collection. Thanks, Billy

[Phillip]

I'm waiting to hear back from Rossi, but I'm betting they aren't gonna be too helpful.

On the grip frame I found the additional markings " IV 88"

I don't know if that has anything to do with a manufacture date or not, but maybe?

If you don't get a reply back, call there tech support, from there, they should give you a contact for the info you are looking for. (It seems that you have a better chance when you call.)

What is sounds like, is you have a Canadian import pistol. The US importer was Interarms of Alexandria, Virginia and the Canada importer was Ruko of Canada limited, Mississauga, Ontario for Rossi before Brazetech. So its definitely an older Rossi pistol.

As far as Llama making pistols in Brazil or for Rossi, it never happened. Llama always made there guns in Spain or Italy by Beretta.

[NoZombies]

Thanks for the load info Billy, and for the advice on calling Rossi, Phillip.

I'll give 'em a call and see what they can tell me.

I've been meaning to pick up some of the promo powder, I understand that by weight it's loaded to red-dot spec's but not the volume. Does it burn any cleaner? Dirtier?

[pmeisel]

Neat find, and nice group. If people knew they shot that well they would have sold a lot more of them and they'd be famous!

[BCall]

I've been meaning to pick up some of the promo powder, I understand that by weight it's loaded to red-dot spec's but not the volume. Does it burn any cleaner? Dirtier?


I haven't noticed any difference between it and Red Dot except for the price.

[Flash]

Ruko is an importer that dealt exclusively with Arms Corp of the Philippines in the 90's and in the 80's, Rossi was imported by Interarms so you may have an uncataloged transition gun from Arms Corp.
The 1983/84 Olympics should place your gun around this period.

[rintinglen]

That appears to be a 32 caliber Rossi model 851. The only reference I can find to it is "also available in 32 S&W long." I found that in a 1998 (I think--missing cover) Guns and Ammo Yearly. If it weighs about 36 ounces, that may clinch it, as the 971's werereportedly heavier. ROSSI seems to have climbed onto the underlug-barrel wagon a little slower than most. My 1988 GUNS DIGEST is the earliest one that I have that shows a Rossi with an underlug. Interarms offered, or at least cataloged, the Rossi Model 69 32S&W Long in the late 70's to mid 80's, but it was more of a J frame gun as I recall. Rossi did offer a model 88, but that was a smaller gun.