Universial notch dies ready!

[BT Sniper]

Got first 7 orders ready to ship. Will go out first thing Monday morning. You all will have them by Christmas as long as post office does not delay.

Figure we can use this thread for tips, help, and instructions.

First off there is a lot of possiblities with this die. It will make all sorts of variations to your bullets. Everyone might like somthing different so I did not put any samples in with the die. I did include a small tin of swage lub just for the heck of it. I would have liked to have supplied a few sample bullets and maybe I will in future but I was a bit short on time and wanted to get them to you by holiday. There are severial pics posted in the orginal thread and ofcourse I am always avialble for help or questions.

Cautions! The notch die teeth are sharp, be careful. Do not attempt to notch anything harder then the brass/lead/copper bullet jacket combinations. Don't know why you would try to notch a piece of steel but you never know. This way we do not damage the teeth. This die does not need to "cut" the jacket only fold it over and it will produce great results.

The punch inserts have a bit of swage lube I applied to them as a protective barrier.

DO NOT notch a loaded round! I imagine it would work but why risk it. By a bullet puller instead.

Use for blanks and bird shot has not been tested. Should you wish to attempt it proceed at own risk.

Always check final diameter of bullet before loading! It is possible, but unlikely, to bump up the size of the bullet with these dies. Usually you should run the notched bullet back threw the swage die after notching. This notch die requires very little pressure and will work in any press. For you to actually bump up the size of the bullet it would take quite a bit more force then needed to make a great bullet.

Got to go for now. Next post I'll go over some simple instructions and use of die.

Thanks

BT

[Jailer]

[smilie=w:

[rockrat]

Have to ask, how much BT? Thanks

[ReloaderFred]

That's great news, Brian. Thank you for your hard work on this project, and I look forward to receiving my die.

Fred

[BT Sniper]

Your welcome guys. As always glad I could help. Thanks for your support as well.

$175 + $10 S&H

I broke down the cost in the orginal thread if anyone is interested. Still have plenty to offer. I imagine soon there will be a wealth of new projects and bullets to talk about and pictures to see.

Of to work in shop. Will post helpful tips on use of die later.

BT

[torker]

Thanks Brian, I hope you have a nice holiday season. I'll be waiting at the curb for the mailman

[BT Sniper]

Another word of caution. The inserts for this die are installed from bottom of die not the top. Do not try to unscrew inserts out the top of the die.

A new design is in the works that will allow us to drop punches in from top and will be avialble soon.

For best results with the notch die to make a XTP look a like bullet try a core/jacket combination about 5 grains less or so then you guys normally use to make the one step bullets with. Anouther possiblity is a smaller HP punch. I can provide these for those interested. To notch an allready formed one step bullet it will generally push up a bit of lead at tip of bullet when formed. You can leave as is or scrape off the excess lead and reswage. It comes off easy enough.

Also for those with a core seat die you can notch the seated core before swage.

Really is alot of potential and combinations to try with this set up. Do experiment a bit and share some of your results.

A couple of you may have recieved the die today. Rest should have it tommorow or thursday at latest.

BT

[ReloaderFred]

Thank you, Brian. Mine should get here tomorrow, I hope. I'm going to be ordering a one step .44 die from you after the holidays, so don't sell them all............

Fred

[ReloaderFred]

Got mine today, Brian. Looks like I'm in for some interesting experimentation, for sure.

Thanks again,

Fred

[Jailer]

Mine must still be on the pack mule. Hopefully it gets here before the holidays. I'm hoping to get it and load up a few notched bullets for our late doe season that ends on 1-1-11.

[ReloaderFred]

I only live a couple hundred miles from Brian, so the mule didn't have to go as far. And rain takes care of itself when it hits the ground, unlike snow..........

Fred

[a.squibload]

A new design is in the works that will allow us to drop punches in from top and will be avialble soon.

Will that one cost the same? Remember I'm cheap, er I mean THRIFTY.


To notch an allready formed one step bullet it will generally push up a bit of lead at tip of bullet when formed. You can leave as is or scrape off the excess lead and reswage. It comes off easy enough.
Also for those with a core seat die you can notch the seated core before swage...

So without a core seat die you would swage, notch, swage again?
Or seat with a larger die, notch, swage?
Or maybe just buy the dang thing and experiment?

I'm working up to it, let's see how Santa treats me this year.

[BT Sniper]

Yep the first one there squibload. Swage, notch, swage and experimenting is a lot of fun too.

Plenty avialble.

Happy Holidays.

BT

[Jailer]

Well the femailman left me a present in the mailbox today. Now to go brave the cold and figure out how this thing works. I've got a bunch (about 300 to 400) cores and jackets sorted and ready to swage.

I'll be back with results and hopefully some pics soon.

[Jailer]

Didn't have enough time to get some loaded so I figured I'd just post a nice family pic. :)

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/Jailer/posting%20pics/bullets.jpg

[runfiverun]

the new ones notch down quite a bit further than the originals i see.
the swage,notch, swage works better with the jackets.
but for reforming cast boolits i notch first then swage.
i found with the 44 set that a 158 gr [357 rejects] naked boolit works well, then after the initial swage 1-3 #6 shot brings the lead up to the nose properly.
some brands of 40 cases will take just the boolit and will fill up nicely, other brands need the couple of extra grains of shot to fill out the same.

[BT Sniper]

You Guys AMAZE Me! Those are going to go BIG. That's the picture I was wating for! WOW! Seems I don't get as much time as I would like to play with these tools. It is sure nice to see the tools I have made can produse results like this.

Do post details! 45 cals correct? 40 S&W brass correct? Trimmed? Base looks like it swelled out nicly. What press? Total weight? Core size weight? Pure lead or alloy? Sequence you used in order to final result? Sorry for the 20 questions. I know they will come up again. A couple pics of the notched jacket before final swage? Man I can't wait to see a loaded round and the carnage from a recovered bullet should be impressive.

Better then a commercial bullet right there guys!

Swage ON!

BT

[BT Sniper]

I agree those are notched great and quite a ways too. Obvioulsy the depth of notch is controlable by the user. Not sure I have even got any notched that much before but then again I'm pretty busy making the tools not using them :) Either way I think this notch die certainly looks like it has a lot of potential. GREAT JOB!

I'm proud and jelious at the same time. It took me alot of hardship to get to that point. It took you guys............... a few hours? That's the way I want it for you guys though. As easy and enjoyable as possible.

Great Job.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Run,

Good to hear from you. Dies been treating you well?

I have certainly improved the design. Bought the expensive tools needed to make them perfect and used the mill in the machine shop for consistant repetable results, no more cutting the teeth by hand. Have a lot more avialble and still even more potential with only one die.

Happy Holidays

BT

[BT Sniper]

This is one of those pics that needs to start spreading all over the internet!

[Jailer]

You Guys AMAZE Me! Those are going to go BIG. That's the picture I was wating for! WOW! Seems I don't get as much time as I would like to play with these tools. It is sure nice to see the tools I have made can produse results like this.

Do post details! 45 cals correct? 40 S&W brass correct? Trimmed? Base looks like it swelled out nicly. What press? Total weight? Core size weight? Pure lead or alloy? Sequence you used in order to final result? Sorry for the 20 questions. I know they will come up again. A couple pics of the notched jacket before final swage? Man I can't wait to see a loaded round and the carnage from a recovered bullet should be impressive.

Better then a commercial bullet right there guys!

Swage ON!

BT



These are the .45 cal 2 step that I got from you. Brass is .40 range scrap trimmed to .688 in a Lyman case trimmer with a cordless drill attachment. Cores are 145 grain .40 cal mix of range scrap and wheel weights cast from a Lee mold. The brass was annealed on an old grill. Final weight after being swaged is around 212 grains.

It was all done in a Lee Classic Cast press with a longer stronger handle. For these I seated the core then notched and then swaged. It took a couple tries to get the notch right but they seem to have turned out quite nice. I think that these actually formed a little nicer than the regular hollow point. The notching operation actually pushes the top of the brass out a bit and brings the nose in. I think this makes it fill out the nose a bit better when you run it through the point form die. It could just be an optical illusion but the nose looks a little less tapered on these than it does on the plain hollow points.

You know I thought about taking a pic of a start to finish operation but it was going so good I just finished them all up. I have a buddy stopping over today to check out my setup so I'll get a pic of each step of the operation and post it up later.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks! I bet they will shoot and perform great!

For an even more finished look try bumping the nose slightly into the rounded punch that came with the die. Certainly not needed as your results look so good but it will bring the tip together just a bit more. Just a cosmetic thing. Fun to play with anyway.

Keep us posted.

Good shooting

BT

[MIBULLETS]

Looks great Jailer! This is exciting stuff.

[Jailer]

Here's another pic showing the progress from start to finish. From left to right is fired .40 brass, annealed and trimmed .40 brass with core inserted, 145 grain core, seated core, notched seated core, point formed, sized bullet and last is the finished product after tumbling to polish them up.

I run them through a Lee .451 sizing die since I ordered my dies from Brian to drop at .452 for my 454 and 450 bushmaster. You can see the faint line about mid way up where they are sized by the Lee die on the second one from the right. Once I run them through the sizing die I can use them in my 45's.

Don't pay any attention to the green you see on the bullets. My daughter was standing next to me when I took the picture and she was wearing a neon green soccer shirt and the reflection showed up in the pictures.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/Jailer/posting%20pics/bulletsprogress.jpg

[mr mom]

im doing .44's but am i doing something wrong ???? im putting the core bullet in upside down . why are you putting them in the right way ??? should i be doing this diffrent ???

[Jailer]

im doing .44's but am i doing something wrong ???? im putting the core bullet in upside down . why are you putting them in the right way ??? should i be doing this diffrent ???

Do whatever works for you. I get better base expansion when I seat them right side up, that's why I do it the way I do.

[mold maker]

Santa came to my front door, by way of a mail Jeep, today. I couldn't wait to try out the notching die.
Sorry I don't have a camera, but take my word for it. They look just as good as factory XTP and they put a huge smile on my face. I may not be able to keep that Christmas Ham in my mouth with this grin.
Thanks BT.

[MIBULLETS]

Jailer, what do you use to seat your cores? I know the standard CH die seats the core outside of the brass but you are seating yours below the top of the jacket. I think I saw where some were using a expander die, just wondered if you were doing the same.

[BT Sniper]

I made him a special punch insert for the seating die to seat a core at perfect depth below jacket. I do this with all the 45 sets. Could also be done with a 40 cal swage base punch but I think this works a little better this way.

Looks great Jailer.

Yes the core can be seated up or down, some times it makes a difference. All gets squished.

BT

[runfiverun]

in the 44's
i like to seat mine upside down too,using a 158 rnfp boolit.
i'll be trying a swc and a full wad cutter boolit core
plus a heavier core weight with the flat nose.

i annealed the enire case on a bunch of mine and notched the noses, before then after swaging then swaged again. i am also getting 430 right on the money.
with 8.5 grs unique through the browning92 and win94 they would flatten the whole case to about 1/16th thick, at 50 yds losing the core b . [this is on hard packed dirt at about 1300 fps]
testing before using for hunting is gonna be mandatory.
i gotta figure out how to bond the case and the core.

brian: as soon as funds permit you'll be getting more work.
41,45 [need something 250-270 range], and of course the ejector.
and a 375 in the 220-250 range would be awesome too.

once you guy's figure out the process you'll like these dies.
my DW 44 was able to hold under 2"s at 50 yds with mixed cases
and me firing it, so these are working well

and if you take the time to sort cases and weigh your cores these will make some scary accurate bullets.
i haven't explored everything that these will do yet, but i have modified several cast boolit designs with them, annealed different lengths of the cases, tried dual alloys, and just plain had fun.
i am even considering buying a marlin as i know these will shoot through that type of bbl just fine.
every pop can at the range shivers when i come in now.

[Cowboy5780]

Never ceases to amaze me at the skill and ingenuity our members have at making things

[MakeMineA10mm]

Brian,
Just wanted to let you know I got my notching die. Haven't had time to open the box yet, but it's here! Can't wait for Monday, when I should have some time for loading projects...

[ReloaderFred]

I used my notch die yesterday and today with the dies I bought from MIBULLETS and the Hollywood Sr. press I bought from another forum member. They all came within a few days of each other, so I was able to get them all put together and make a couple hundred .44 bullets from .40 S&W cases today.

I experimented doing it several different ways and what I settled on was the annealed .40 case, an as cast 148 gr. .38 Wadcutter bullet, the CH-4D dies and the notching die. The process I finally settled on was seating the core in the core seating die, using a .41 caliber plug, with the case upside down. This seated the core all the way in the case and left the jacket mouth untouched.

I then ran the core seated case into the notching die, closing the case mouth all the way, as in making a shot shell or blank. Then I finished by running the notched case into the hollowpoint swaging die and they came out great. I seated a finished bullet into an unsized .44 Magnum case and determined the proper location for the cannelure and then applied the cannelure to all the finished bullets.

I had washed all the annealed cases in citric acid and tumbled them before starting, so when I was finished with the bullets, I just ran them through the tumbler again for about half an hour to remove the lube and restore the shine.

All my bullets came out of the die at .429", and 215 gr. +/- 2 grains. When I get a chance, I'll load some up and see how they shoot through my S&W 629 and the Marlin carbines. I've also got a Winchester Model 94 in .44 Magnum that's never really been a shooter, so I'll try them in that, too.

If I had a clue how to post pictures to a forum, I'd show the various steps I used, but I don't know the first thing about posting pictures. Sorry.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[BT Sniper]

Good to hear from you guys.

Mr. 10mm, I got your funds the day I sent your die out. Perfect timing!

Fred, Sounds like things are going great for you. WOW a 215 grain 44 from untrimmed 40 S&W brass jacket! I got to try that. That's a big acomplishment without having to trim the brass frist. If you can email me the pics I should be able to post them. BT_Sniper@hotmail.com

Keep us posted.

Good shooting!

BT

[ReloaderFred]

BT,

We've got a match today, so I'll try to take some pictures when we get back home this evening.

I didn't want to have to trim the brass, which is why I went the route I did. I found that crimping with the notch die, and completely closing the case mouth prior to swaging, gave me a better bullet. I was getting wrinkled jackets without using the core seating die first and without using the notch die first. The hollowpoint plug just rolls any excess jacket into the hollowpoint enough to make a great looking bullet.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[BT Sniper]

Can't wait to see it! Sounds cool!

[ReloaderFred]

BT,

I just sent you some pictures. If they come through, would you please post them for me.

Thanks,

Fred

[BT Sniper]

See next post!

BT

[BT Sniper]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/Bullet_Swaging_001.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/Bullet_Swaging_002.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/Bullet_Swaging_003.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/Bullet_Swaging_004.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/Bullet_Swaging_001-1.jpg

Great work Fred! Here we can make any weight bullet we want using the notch die and standard untrimed brass.

Swage On guys!

BT

[BT Sniper]

Good looking set up you have there Fred. I like the blue box full of shiny new bullets. :)

Let us know how they perform.

Good shooting,

BT

[ReloaderFred]

Thank you for posting those for me, BT. I was using both military (FC 08) and R-P .40 S&W brass for this project. They both weigh within a couple of grains of each other, even though they're constructed a little differently. Most of the weight in the Remington brass is in the base, with slightly thinner walls. The FC brass seems to be more evenly distributed throughout the case.

When I tried swaging them in just the swaging die, without using the core seating die, I was getting wrinkled jackets. Seating the cores first solved that problem. Crimping the mouth of the core seated case nearly shut gave a smoother finished product when swaged to the final shape.

The press on the left is an RCBS Rockchucker, with BT's notching die installed. The press on the right is my Hollywood SR. press. You can see the difference is size between the two, and the Hollywood has a lot more leverage. Between the two is my C-H cannelure tool. With the notching tool installed in the Rockchucker, it makes the whole process go much faster.

These bullets came out at 215 grains, +/- about 2 grains. They also came out at .429", including the base/rim, so I'm happy with the results.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[MIBULLETS]

Nice work Fred! You really have quite the set up there. That Hollywood press looks massive!

[ReloaderFred]

I started reloading on a used Hollywood press in 1963, that I bought from one of my college professors for $25.00. I've still got that press and still use it. I've always wanted a Hollywood Sr. press, and a fellow forum member had one he wanted to sell, so I bought it. He was also kind enough to deliver it! It's perfect for what I wanted to do with the swaging, and yes, it's massive.

Fred

[a.squibload]

Where do you hook the steam line to that piledriver???
That thing is huge.

The last boolit on the right appears to have the jacket folded into the HP,
is that right? That would make things easier not having to trim cases!

Nice setup, thanks for the pics.

[ReloaderFred]

Thanks, but I had to have BT post the pictures, since I don't have a clue how that's done.

The jacket is folded into the hollowpoint on the last bullet. That was accomplished by crimping the core seated case almost completely closed prior to the final swaging. The second bullet from the right should have been left out of the picture, since it was my first try and before I discovered crimping the case closed. That's why there is a difference in the two nose profiles.

It was actually an accident that I crimped that first case completely closed. Since the annealed case is so soft, I was feeling for resistance when I was adjusting the notching die, but by the time I felt any, the case was crimped closed. I figured what the heck, let's see what happens when I swage it. I liked the look, and especially the fact that it didn't have to be trimmed. I then did another 150 of those and I really like them.

I haven't had a chance to load and shoot any of them, yet. I hope to be able to do that next week, before I leave for the SHOT Show in Las Vegas.

The Hollywood Sr. is a large press, and I've wanted one for years. Now I'll be able to load my .45-120 Sharps 3 1/4" without being a contortionist.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Daywalker]

ReloaderFred, I noticed on your pic with your swage die in the press, you have one of them CH Ejectors. I have one as well. I don't really like mine all that well. When I try to use it, it wants to push the ejecter to the side and puts it in a bind...

How do you like yours? I guess that is obvious as your using it...Have you any problem using it to eject with? I may just put mine up on ebay and see what I can get for it....

[ReloaderFred]

Daywalker,

While the bullet ejector looks like a C-H Ejector, it isn't. It's one along the same basic design, but built for me by a friend. It's bigger and beefier than the C-H version. The camming part is the full width of the opening between the two vertical struts. This is the weakness with the C-H version. That and the too small pivot pin they used, which bends and makes the cam get out of alignment with the ejector rod.

I like my version and I'm lukewarm on the C-H version, though I have one that works on a .38 swaging die just fine. The concept is good, but the application was weak on the C-H model.

My friend is going to build me four more of them for the rest of my dies, just as soon as I get him the materials. He has a pretty complete machine shop and all I have is a drill press.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Daywalker]

Thanks for the info...

[a.squibload]

"Accident"? You're just being modest!

I'll try to adapt that complete crimp step, although I don't have a core seat die.
Thanks, looks good and uses up the last bit of case.
Of course I just bought a few extra blades for the mini-chopsaw...

[MakeMineA10mm]

"Accident"? You're just being modest!

I'll try to adapt that complete crimp step, although I don't have a core seat die.
Thanks, looks good and uses up the last bit of case.
Of course I just bought a few extra blades for the mini-chopsaw...

Use them on the rims when you get the bullets all done (as the last step). Then you can have fun with people asking which bullet is home-made and which is store bought!! :mrgreen: :drinks: