.303B Case Head Separation

[caseyboy]

Suffered a case head separation this morning at the range. Now, I can't get the rest of the case out. Anyone have any tricks or tips that they are willing to share. It was a Winchester case if that helps and yes the web area is very thin. [smilie=b:

Thanks Caseyboy

[curator]

Stuff a 20 gauge shotgum bore brush into the chamber then tap the broken case out

[VSchneider]

Try this, it usually works for me. Take the bolt out and put a large caliber (.338-.45) on your cleaning rod and shove it up in till it's part way up into the barrel past the end of the case. Then pull the rod back out. The brissels will usually catch on the front of the case and pull it out.
I used to shoot Lee-Enfields a lot with cast bullets and have had case head separations. The way that I cured the problem is by only neck sizing the cases. The chambers on the Lee-Enfields are usually very large and expands the brass out then when you full length size the brass it doesn't take many sizings to cause the head to separate.
Hope this works for you,
Van

[Bloodman14]

Brownell's carries a broken shell extractor. Money well spent.

[smokemjoe]

This is at last thing to try, Take a case and cut off at the web, Find a tap that you can tap the case with that dosent break threw the out side of the case, Take this tap then and run it into the broken case until its tight, Then tap out with a clean rod, Must of the time it will turn out when your running the tap in.

[Bob in Revelstoke]

I made a case remover from a piece of cold roll steel about 8 ins. long. Drilled a hole in the end and got an old tap that would tightly fit in the broken case. Remove bolt from rifle, insert rod and tap, give small turn and pull case out.
Always inspect cases before reloading. Usually you can see a crack forming at the web, but not always. Especially if you are using full house loads or near to it. Some cases will separate after 3 or 4 loadings if that. Low pressure with lead boolets is the way to go

I save the heads. On one leg of my bench I drill a 3/8 in hole and tap the heads in for decoration and as a reminder.

The Lee Enfield has a large gas port to vent escaping gas from the rear of the rifle. I have never heard of a mishap involving escaping gas. The Brits made a good battle rifle.

[caseyboy]

Thanks for all the advice. What worked is a 10mm by 1.5mm tap (took a cut off case to the hardware store to find the right size). Turned it in about 2 full turns using a 1/4" drive socket extension. Ran a 1/4" steel rod carefully up the muzzle and with about a 1/2 dozen firm taps, the brass and tap popped out. The brass was firmly in there. Now I have the right tool for when this happens again.

[walltube]

Welcome here, sound advice here.

Best quote yet per SMLE, (IMHumbleO): "Low pressure with lead boolets is the way to go." Thank you Bob in Revelstoke.

Ya'll Be of Good Cheer,

Wt.

[Gee_Wizz01]

Cerrosafe works good also. Just push a tight patch into the bore about 1/4" from the case mouth, then pour the cerrosafe into the chamber. The cerrosafe will fill in the area ahead of the case mouth. When the cerrosafe has hardened, use a dowel or brass rod down the bore and gently tap the rod with a mallet and the case will be pushed out of the chamber.

G

[MtGun44]

Brit chambers are way oversized. Strongly recommend neck sizing die for your .303
loads, which requires segregating brass if you have multiple guns in the caliber.
The oversized chamber is to ensure that you can chamber a dirty or corroded round,
potentially critical in the heat of battle. No mil gun designer cares one whit what the
brass looks like after firing, only that it survives ONCE.

Bill

[JeffinNZ]

If you read my sticky on Lee Enfield accuracy I cover off firing forming brass and sizing.

[1Shirt]

Good info, have just started loading 303, and have had one partial seperation that did extract, but don't want to have a complete one and go thru the process(es) listed. So----, I just ordered a Lee Collet sizing die. Have been supprised at the accuracy of the old battlefield round.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[MtGun44]

Lee Collet sizer works very well for me. I expect you will like the results.

Bill

[1Shirt]

Got to the range on Tues, and had my very first full case head seperation. Have had partials before with other rifles, but they all extracted. Not so with this 303. It was a clean, even all the way around separation. Was glad I had just read this thread a few days before. Loads were lite, so pressure was minimal. I just pushed an 8mm brush down from the muzzle, and It came right out. By the way, the Lee Collet die and some new win brass came yesterday, so my last batch with FL dies is gone, and will now only neck size. Good thread, and thanks guys!:bigsmyl2:
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[MtGun44]

Yeah, us weird handloaders are abusing the brass by reusing it! At least, that would
be the view of a military rifle designer. Working while dirty is highly rated by the "end
user" and nice condition brass after first firing is rated as ZERO on the designer and
end user's 'How Much Do I Care' scale.

Bill

[scb]

Cerrosafe works good also. Just push a tight patch into the bore about 1/4" from the case mouth, then pour the cerrosafe into the chamber. The cerrosafe will fill in the area ahead of the case mouth. When the cerrosafe has hardened, use a dowel or brass rod down the bore and gently tap the rod with a mallet and the case will be pushed out of the chamber.

G

When I was doing gun work this was the best and safest, for the chamber, way I had for removing separated cases if the oversized bore brush didn't work, and a lot of times it didn't. I've removed dozens of cases using Cerrosafe.
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/scb2008/010.jpg
This is one I did for a guy at work this fall. I usually have the patch closer to the chamber. I won't melt the cerrosafe out 'til I need to use it again. Repeated heating seems to cause it to "degrade" (have a higher melting point).

[curator]

An added advantage to the cerosafe method is the clear impression of chamber length and throat diameter/condition. Just follow the directions and do your measurements within the time limits. Having made chamber casts for most of my .303 target rifles I discovered I was trimming my cases unnecessarily. So much for the 2.22" trim-to length specification. Cases made to real chamber length shot cast much more accurately.

Case head seperations are usually avoided by fireforming new brass with the case head held hard against the boltface then neck sizing threafter. Reloading once-fired factory ammo almost guarantees early head seperations since factory ammo is purposely made undersize to fit all rifles so chambered. Most of the head stretch occurs on the first firing.

[budman46]

caseyboy,

welcome to british chambering solutions 101. they wanted all the ammo they made to chamber and go bang. with a rimmed case and no concern for reloadability, they chambered their rifles...ah...generously. not a problem for virgin ammo/brass, but sure to give us reloaders fits.

my solution is to expand .303 brass necks to 8mm, then size until they just chamber in the intended firearm, creating a "false shoulder". after fire-forming to the chamber of a particular rifle, i keep brass segregated for each of my three enfields.

budman

ignorance is fixable, stupidity is forever...

[MtGun44]

budman,

Sounds like an excellent solution for rimless, but shouldn't be needed for rimmed brass
that headspaces on the rim.

Bill

[scb]

It's the same solution T/C said was required for both Herrett cases because headspacing on the rim is not as precise.
http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/30%20Herrett.htm
Paragraph 7

[Multigunner]

.303 rims vary greatly in thickness according to manufacturer and time period.
Headspacing on a fire formed shoulder makes for more precise shooting.

I tightened the headspace of my No.4 rifle with new bolt body and #3 bolt head. I still neck size only but before reloading I use each fired case as a snapper for dry fire practice.
This drives the case into the chamber with just enough force to micro size the case body for ease of chambering in the field.

My SMLE has a bit more headspace than my No.4 so I'll be fire forming cases for the SMLE.
I fitted a unissued replacement bolt body to the SMLE. Had I done a better job of it I might have reduced headspace a bit more. As is its around .068 which is the max commercial specification for .303 sportng rifles, and far better than the run of the mill SMLE.

I'd like to find some reloadable .303 cases with rims of .064 or thicker. The supposed max thickness is .064, minimum is around .056. US Commercial cases run around .059.

The first Sellor&Bellot cases I used long ago had fairly thick rims, around .063, but the cases aren't that great for reloading.

[1Shirt]

Agree on the S&B's. They are very thick (didn't mike), and a real pain to put in and out of a lee priming tool. However, the 20 that I picked up at the range, are quite consistant, and look to be of pretty good quality.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[PAT303]

If you can get them buy the cases that have the nny headstamp,I don't know who makes them butmine have .062 rims and they are very durable cases. Pat

[docone31]

nny is Privi.
They last a long time.

[curator]

Another way to prevent case head seperation and fireforming new brass is to slip thin rubber "O" rings over the cartridge body and slide it to just under the rim. When seated, the "O" ring will compress and hold the case head against the bolt face despite a hard firing pin fall. Of course cartridges are a bit hard to chamber. That way all the case expansion will be forward in the neck and shoulder area not at the case head/web area. Once fireformed the brass should be segregated for each rifle and neck sized only. Also, avoid S&B and range pickup brass since these will usually suffer head seperation on the first or second reloadings. Factory ammo fired to get cases usually suffers as well unless you use the "O" ring trick.

[caseyboy]

I like that O-ring trick. I will definitely try that out. Since my last seperation, I have started to use a fine hooked probe to check the inside of the cases. I have tossed a few that had a definite lip.

caseyboy

[MtGun44]

"nny" is cyrillic (Rooskie) alphabet "PPU" for Prvi Partisan, not sure what the U is for.

What you are seeing as an "n" is a "Pi" greek letter, which is used for "P" in the cyrillic alphabet.

Bill

[Brithunter]

Hmmm here is my take on case seperations and their cause in the .303 british :-

Firstly most modern manufacture .303 cases are way undersized on both rim and web. R.P for example is about 0.450" in the web area when it should be 0.455" so it has to expand at a minimum 0.005" each firing your dies probably size it back to under 0.455" each firing sizing works the brass at it's weakest point and so it gives way.

Why the rims vary so much is a question that should be asked on the manufacturers. After all it means they are not working to the drawings. Of course SAMMI sticking their ore and and redesigning old cases to match their own ideas does not help one bit.

As already stated Privi brass is good as is FNM (Portuguese) sometimes marked Indep. However the best brass to work with IF you can find it is the Greek surplus HXP.

As for undersized brass it's not only in .303 that this crops up Winchester 30-30 in also undersize on the rim diameter. Now I use the R.P brass being undersize to my advantage in making 6.5x53R brass as that is supposed to be 0.450" at the web.

Despite loading .303 for many years for a number of different .303 rifles, currently have 5 of them, as yet on a handload have not had a case seperation. Have had them on old surplus ammunition but not a re-load. I normally use HXP 69 brass but have some later HXP 83.

Winchester brass has proved OK as has S&B, FNM and the few R.P that I have used however this is only on a few loads and these aref or commercial sportign rifles not military ones so the chambers might be cut closer to spec than the military arms were. As I mainly use the HXP which appears to be dimensioned properly it has proved good for those ex-service rifles that I have had. The closest that I currently have to that is a sporterised No4 that looks like a Parker-Hale Supreme.

Now when sizing I do full length size, only one rifle do I keep segregated brass for as the chamber does not seem to be quite regulation( it's Belgian made Martini 303 bore) the shoulder is more of a radius then a slope. Another rifle can fire std .303 but afterwars those cases can only be used in that rifle as it has an improved chamber.

[LEDSLINGER]

budman,

Sounds like an excellent solution for rimless, but shouldn't be needed for rimmed brass
that headspaces on the rim.

Bill

Unless the rim thickness is considerably undersize as is most commercial brass made recently. Yes a false shoulder is definitely the way to go.

[Char-Gar]

The Brits made there rifles so native troops could dump gravel and their sock in the chamber and they would keep on firing. A fired case from my 1945 Longbranch (Canadian) looks like an AI version when placed next to a factory round. No wonder cases seperate after a few firings when FL sized. Neck sizing is the way to go.

[PAT303]

I neck my cases up to 8mm then back down to 303 leaving a false shoulder as well as a strip of tape around the base and seat the boolit out into the rifling.It sounds like a handfull but really it's easy and you only need to do it once and neck size from then on.All LE's had long chambers from the armouries to allow for dirty or out of spec ammo. Pat

[Multigunner]

Just found a section in Reynolds' Lee Enfield Book, that tells of problems encountered in torquing down No.4 barrels at the factory.
They found that if the barrel were not fitted before screwing it in to require 125 Ft Lb of torque or less the shak of the barrel actually stretched which caused the chamber to lengthen by several thousandths to several hundreths. This had no effect on headspace since these rifles headspace on the rim, but did cause an adverse affect on accuracy.
I suspect the pressure on the shank may also have caused a reduction in diameter of the neck and shoulder.

The main objection was the stretching introduced stress lines that affected barrel vibration.
I'll read it again to be sure but I think swelling of the shoulder area was also mentioned. If so this would explain several chambers I've seen that produced outsized hemispherical shoulders on fired cases.

[leadman]

I reload for many rifles that are supposed to headspace on the rim or belt. That is fine for one time use of the brass.
I headspace all of these cartridges off the shoulder to increase case life. Depending on the cartridge I may fireform with cream of wheat, make a false shoulder , or load the bullet into the rifling.

Case life has been increased dramatically by doing this. I also shoot a 303.

[mwjones]

I've been contemplating making a .303-06 die nd rechambering to solve this problem. I only have one 303 (a sportered no1 mk.iii that i got for 80 bucks), but i've already looked into the case head seperation issue. I looked at .303 Epps Improoved, but i would have to pay a hundred bucks or more for a set of dies. With the .303-06 you can use a 30-06 reamer without lenghtening the case, and fire form normal .303 brit ammo. Then, you could only neck size, or you could use a 30-06 die with about .170" faced off of the base.

[budman46]

mtgun44,

the .303 b may headspace on the rim, but an overlong chamber...as the brits produced during the war to guarantee chambering any ammo issued...would allow one to push the shoulder back and blow it forward repeatedly. that's all that's needed for a case separation to occur. this isn't a problem for issue ammo which wasn't reloaded, but for us thrifty folks it's a big deal.

reloading for t/c contenders with rimmed cartridges sort of ignores the rim as a headspace mechanism, too...instead, relying on brass properly fitting the chamber for best results.

budman

ignorance is fixable, stupidity is forever...