7.5 mm Schmidt Ruben

[Dragoon 45]

A good friend of mine called me a couple of days ago and was asking me what I know about a Schmidt Ruben in 7.5mm Swiss he was thinking about buying. As I know very little about them, I did a Google search and got a lot of history about them, but very little on shooting them. The Google search did not turn up any rifles for sale so I am curious about their value also.

From what I can tell looking at loading charts the 7.5mm Swiss is pretty comparable to the .308 Win. Sierra lists loads using .308 bullets, but gives a warning that some of the older rifles have smaller bore diameters of .304 and smaller.

I am assuming that due to their Swiss manufacture, these are well made rifles. Is their accuracy comparable to the 03 Springfield? Also what would be a ballpark figure for the value of one of these rifles in good to excellent condition? Is Norma the only source for loaded ammo and cases?

Thank You in advance for any info you are able to provide.

[iron brigade]

i have the k31 swiss. i shoot .308 dia bullets in it. [30 cal] i use a load of imr 4895 with prvi brass and 155 nosler j4. have shot 3/4" 3 shot group @ 100 yards. reloading is clearly the way to go, its enjoyable and you can taylor the loads to a given rifle.
buy one you'll love it. others on here can offer more history ect, swiss rifles has a good site/forum.

[WRideout]

I got a K31 for my birthday a few years ago. It is easily one of the best military rifles of that era that was made. I haven't done anything to it, but the trigger pull is the best I have ever found in any military rifle. It also has superior balance in your hands.

One can find a range of options in ammo. Different distributors you can find on the internet sell surplus GP11, reasonably (J&G sales in Prescott AZ is one). Most of the cheaper FMJ ammo around is going to be Berdan primed, and so difficult to reload. Graf's has Hornady, Norma, Prvi Partizan, Ruag, and Wolf listed as loaded ammo choices. I believe most if not all of those are Boxer primed. I have been shooting German manuf. FMJ from Dunhams, and find it to be perfectly good, but berdan primed, so I haven't reloaded yet.

I got mine for just over a hundred bucks out the door, not too long ago. Now that the supply is getting smaller, and people are finding out about them, the price has gone up to about $250 or so, in the last two years. Based on unscientific observations of a biased observer.

Wayne

[excess650]

The K31s were the last of the Swiss straight pull rifles, and likely the most commonly encountered. There were previous versions 1889, 1896, and 1911(I think), but the K31s were the best IMO.

Prices will vary depending upon which model and condition. A walnut stocked K31 will be more $ than one with a beech stock in similar condition. Likewise, one with no importer markings, or discreet markings will be more valuable than those with the importer markings on the side of the receiver.

As for accuracy, K31s are some of the best military bolt actions, if not THE best.

[NuJudge]

The Swiss made many different types of Straight Pulls, not all of them Schmidt Rubins. Go here for identification:
http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/detail/

The Swiss seemed to feel the 96/11 rifle was generally the most accurate, followed by the 1911 long rifle, then the K31. I have a number of K31's, and they all shoot well, one of them does exceedingly well with jacketed, and another does quite well with cast but not with jacketed. I have a 1911 Carbine, and it shoots about as well as the worst of my K31's. I've only recently gotten a 1911 long rifle, and it shoots not quite as well as the best of my K31 rifles.

Only on the K31, the rifling comes right back to the case mouth on a new barrel. For a newer K31 barrel, you must use bullets that have a pronounced taper just ahead of the case mouth, or you will jam them into the rifling. For the earlier rifles, they have much more generous throats. The best jacketed load I have found lately is the accuracy load with the 168 HPBT from the Sierra manual. The best cast load I have found used a group buy NOE clone of the 165 RCBS Silhouette and H4198.

This is an important safety check to do:
http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/topic/7021

[Dragoon 45]

Thank You for your replies. I will pass this information along to my friend. I wish that I could get him to use the internet and become a member here as he is losing out on a wealth of information. Once again, Thank You.

[JIMinPHX]

I chrony'd a Swiss 7.5 with a friend earlier today. He was using Wolf ammo. I think it was around 175 grain. Speeds were around 2500fps. Accuracy was excellent. It was a nice gun.

[*Paladin*]

Love my K31. The best loads I've found for it are w/ Hornady 168's and Varget or RL15. The Swiss Rifles forum that NuJUdge provided a link to is THE source for the Swiss rifle fan.

[Reverend Recoil]

I formed 7.5x55 cases from 284 Winchester cases with Redding dies. My rifle shoots very well. I will be taking it to the Vintage Rifle Match at Camp Perry next August. Check out the scores from August, 2010. The Swiss K-31 rifles placed very well.
http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/report_eventAward.cgi?matchID=5690&eventID=14&awardID=1
I loaned this rifle to my brother last weekend and he used it to kill three wild hogs. Now he wants one.

[northmn]

Cases are available. I can say that the K31 was by far the easiest rifle to get accuracy with cast bullets with, but as Nujudge stated they do have a limitation on bullet depth or style. I had to seat my 180 grains just so, but they were very accurate with little fussing. Their major limitation for competition in stock military is their sights. A peep sighted 03 will give an advantage due to sights but not accuracy. They have been placing. For a while I bought and sold several milsurps and this was a good one. While it probably is gone, check under the butt plate as owners put Ids under them.

DP

[Four Fingers of Death]

Mine had the piece of paper with the guy's name and city, but no amount of research turned anything up. :(

One thing to bear in mind is that Redding dies are the only ones correct for the chamber of one of the rifles andddddddddddddddddd, I think it is the 31 that is the odd one. I went with Redding to be sure.

Someone here no doubt will be able to put us right.

[mike in co]

Mine had the piece of paper with the guy's name and city, but no amount of research turned anything up. :(

One thing to bear in mind is that Redding dies are the only ones correct for the chamber of one of the rifles andddddddddddddddddd, I think it is the 31 that is the odd one. I went with Redding to be sure.

Someone here no doubt will be able to put us right.

yes k31 dies for the k31 rifle if brass life and accuracy is a concern.

7.5 swiss dies for the rest......

mike in co

[Ilwil]

I have a 1911 and a K31. After I thinned the herd of military rifles, these two were keepers. I agree they have the best of all military triggers. They like Norma and Swiss military-issue ball best, I think. My 31 came with a bunch of "FM" (Portugese) ball ammo that is not very accurate, but it is boxer primed and non-corrosive. When I burn the rest of it it up, I'll try some of these cast loads the other guys recommend. These are great rifles.

[Latigo]

[ Their major limitation for competition in stock military is their sights. A peep sighted 03 will give an advantage due to sights but not accuracy. They have been placing.
DP[/QUOTE]

As long as it's a Sanctioned Swiss Match, I can go you one better on a peep sight for k31s. :-D

This the front sight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/aper2.jpg

The Diopter itself....... No drill & tap, purely solid clamp-on type.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/PSa.jpg

Latigo :)

[wallenba]

Mine was made in 1935, still functions flawlessly, slugs @ .308 can hit sub 1" groups at 100 yds. I can't figure why they are'nt more well known than they are. I absolutely love this rifle.

[MtGun44]

Well, they are fairly well known as a quality, accurate rifle. I have been shooting mine in
Swiss rifle matches in Omaha and KC area. Lots of fun, difficult course of fire, but really
NICE medals if you qualify.

Bill

[leadman]

Don't know why people say the Lee dies aren't correct for the K-31. I use them and they size the cases from my rifle just the amount needed.
The old RCBS 30-150-SP mold casts a perfect bullet for these.

[wallenba]

Well, they are fairly well known as a quality, accurate rifle. I have been shooting mine in
Swiss rifle matches in Omaha and KC area. Lots of fun, difficult course of fire, but really
NICE medals if you qualify.

Bill

I only meant that they aren't well known outside our circle (gun owners). Most everyone knows what a Mauser or a Springfield is, even non gun people, but mention Schmidt- Rubin and I get a... "huh, what".

[Four Fingers of Death]

Don't know why people say the Lee dies aren't correct for the K-31. I use them and they size the cases from my rifle just the amount needed.

I have been told that there is a small dimensional difference in the chamber size and use of the incorrect die will overwork the brass (mind you with the cost of the Redding dies, you could buy a fair bit of brass :D).

[JIMinPHX]

J&G has quite a few of them for sale right now.

http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/rifles/swiss-rifles/cPath/209_474

J&G has ammo for them too, but you might find the Privi ammo cheaper elsewhere.

[Bob S]

Lee dies, RCBS dies, CH dies ... all are "correct" for the K31. K31 shoots GP-11 just like the rest of the 7.5 x 55 rifles. The chambers of the K31's have less taper and the fired cases will have less body taper than cases fired in a Gew1911 or other Swiss straight pull. The "special" K31 dies don't resize the fired case back to GP-11 dimensions, they leave the case "fat" at the shoulder and upper body. The brass is worked less in the upper body and shoulder, and requires less effort to resize, but cases fired in K31, resized in the "special" dies will not chamber in a 1911-type rifle or carbine. The claims of increased case life and better accuracy are smoke and mirrors. There is no measureable difference. I have been reloading for 8 K31's, 3 Gew 1889, 4 (or more?) Gew 1911, 3 Gew 96/11 and 2 K11's with the same set of pre-historic CH FL dies. Some case lots have been fired and FL resized more then 20 times in 12 years now: not a single case failure; and my k31's shoot Master class scores XC.

The special K31 cases will do no harm to your reloading for the K31, but will not perform any miracles of extended case life or improved accuracy. If you decide to purchase any of the other 7.5 x 55 rifles or carbines, you'll need a set of "regular" 7.5 x 55 dies for them.

Resp'y,
Bob S.