Looking for a .444 load

[grubbylabs]

Hi all,

I just got my first lever gun and it is a Winchester model 94 in .444. I am just getting into casting and so far I have only produced some lead muffins while gathering my casting stuff.

At any rate I was going through my new Lyman book and it does not have a load for this gun. I have a 240 grain SWC two cavity Lee mold that I bought for my 44 mag. Does any one have a load that would work in my .444 with that bullet?


Thanks
Grubby

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, the SWC can often be a challenge in leverguns, and in my limited experience with Winchesters, the SWC is more of a challenge in them, than in Marlins...

That said, if you can get it to function, you should be able to find plenty of good loads. Alliant, Hodgdon, and Western Powders all have on-line load-data centers, and last time I checked, they all had 444 Marlin data.

My Marlin 444S likes the 434640 group buy (fat) copy of the Lyman 429640. This is a 285gr RNFP-GC. I'd recommend you look for something similar from Mihec, NOE, or one of the other custom makers. Check the group buy forum too -- never know when this is going to be re-run. Here's a pic:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=1034

[grubbylabs]

Thanks

[MakeMineA10mm]

BTW, some of the best high-performance powders in the Triple Four are:

4198 (either brand)
RL-7
H-322
H-335 (though I've found I don't like the blast of this powder in this cartridge. It's high-velocity, but at the expense of being very disturbing to shoot.)

Some good reduced-load powders (fun plinking with the big rifle), include:

AA-5744
4227

(I bet SR-4759 would be good too, but I've never used it in the 444.)

[grubbylabs]

Hay thanks I was thinking about getting a pound of the IMR 4198.

[high standard 40]

Back when I had a 444, IMR4198 was my go-to powder.

[grubbylabs]

I guess you have to look in the right section. But I did find some loads listed for it. I think I am going to try the IMR 4198 powder.

[arcticbreeze]

H322 is my go to with the 444 however all my molds for that gun are 320-400 grains.

[6pt-sika]

BTW, some of the best high-performance powders in the Triple Four are:

4198 (either brand)
RL-7
H-322
H-335 (though I've found I don't like the blast of this powder in this cartridge. It's high-velocity, but at the expense of being very disturbing to shoot.)

Some good reduced-load powders (fun plinking with the big rifle), include:

AA-5744
4227

(I bet SR-4759 would be good too, but I've never used it in the 444.)

I agree 100% with H322 , H335 and RL-7 as I've used those in full blown loads from 200-400 grains in the variouse 444's !
At the moment I have one early 444 set up with a 300 grain SWC GC bullet and H4198 . This has never been one of my favourites but I wanted to give it a try non the less !

As to reduced I used XMP5744 for a number of years in 444 as well as quite a few other calibers and it worked nicely for killing deer . Granted I never expected to shoot over 100 yards ! Matter of fact I popped one poor unsuspecting deer this season with a older 444 shooting a Lyman 429640HP Devestator pushed with a good charge of XMP5744 . Used the Ranch Dog 432-265 , 285 and 300 grainers with XMP5744 and they killed very well on deer inside 100 yards . Also used Boomer Mikey's 434-330GC that turned out to be 315 grains with XMP5744 and just plain POLE AXED a buck and doe one morning and again they were WELL inside 100 yards .

I've not used IMR4198 or SR4759 .
I have however used XMR2015 with very good results in the 444 both with the cast bullets and jacketed bullets ! Matter of fact XMR2015 is the ONLY powder I've ever loaded jacketed bullets with in any of my 444's !
Varget is another powder thats worked very well for me with 325 grain and over bullets !

[6pt-sika]

If I were now buying powders for the 444 to shoot cast I think I would have to rank them in this order for MUST HAVE !

1. H322

2. RL-7

3. XMR2015

4. Varget

5. H335

6. XMP5744

I "try and keep" 8 pounds of H322 around at all times now as well as atleast 5 pounds of RL-7 and 2 or 3 pounds of all the others mentioned .

[6pt-sika]

H322 is my go to with the 444 however all my molds for that gun are 320-400 grains.

I'd be intrested to see what your 400 grain 444 bullet looks like !

I have three different 400 grainers I've had cut to date !

Mountain Molds did one as a sorta copy of "405WCF's" design of his 434-400GC . I also had LBT cut me a 433-400GC mold and last but not least BRP got me going with a "Ranch Dog Style" with traditinal lube grooves in a 432-400GC .

Those bullets have been for my 2002 Ballard rifled faster twist Marlin 444 .

While the rest of my molds 200-375 grains have been for the older slow twist Micro Groove 444's .

[6pt-sika]

Well, the SWC can often be a challenge in leverguns, and in my limited experience with Winchesters, the SWC is more of a challenge in them, than in Marlins...

That said, if you can get it to function, you should be able to find plenty of good loads. Alliant, Hodgdon, and Western Powders all have on-line load-data centers, and last time I checked, they all had 444 Marlin data.

My Marlin 444S likes the 434640 group buy (fat) copy of the Lyman 429640. This is a 285gr RNFP-GC. I'd recommend you look for something similar from Mihec, NOE, or one of the other custom makers. Check the group buy forum too -- never know when this is going to be re-run. Here's a pic:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=1034

BRP can hook you up with that mold in a 2 cavity for about $75 I think with about a 4 week turn around .

I'd get one myself if I didn't already have a original Lyman 2 cavity 429640 .

[MakeMineA10mm]

I just love that boolit. It was my first group buy when I joined here. In fact, getting in on that group buy is what pushed me from lurker to member! Boomer Mikey is a heck of a salesman for this boolit, but if you try it, you'd know why. It's about as close to ideal as one can get in a heavy-weight 44-cal boolit. Big Meplat for killing power, high weight without excessive recoil or seating depth, nose shape works in leverguns or revolvers, easy to hollow-point, Mikey probably had more points, but you get the idea.

In all my research (reading of others' experiences, though not necessarily what's said in the loading manuals, but real users who have no particular brand to push) and my own experience with the 444, the powders broke down like this:

H335 - Velocity king, but with very sharp muzzle blast/over-pressure. Being a ball powder, it crams a lot of energy into a given space, and it's burning rate is just right to put a lot of it into the 444 case. Call me whimpy, but in my own experience, I didn't feel 50-75 fps was worth the level of muzzle blast to use this powder beyond testing.

RL-7 - In spite of being too fast on the burn-rate chart, it tends to give top velocities with cast boolits. Check out BearTooth Bullets website. The company owner is a 444-nut, and has done a lot of work with this powder and cast bullets from normal weights all the way to super-heavies. I'm not gutsy enough to load his loads, but I found I could get real close to them. Doesn't give the same performance with jacketed for some reason...

4198s - Allegedly what the factories load their commercial ammo with, these powders for many, many years were the undisputed "go-to" powders for this caliber. Of course, that was in the day when 240grs was top-end for 44 cals. Still great performers, a lot of people find that this powder is the top-performer with 240gr JSP/JHP, and ties for top-performance with other powders for 265gr JSPs. This powder is the stick-version of H-335 in terms of packing the maximum amount of energy into the space provided in the 444 with the ideal burn rate, but because it's a stick powder, it falls behind 335 by 50-75fps, and it also loses it's advantage with heavier bullets.

H-322 - This powder is more compact and slower-burning than 4198, so you can fit more of it in the case than the 4198s, but it's burning rate is so slow that it doesn't give any advantage until you get to heavier bullets (265grs and above). This is THE powder with 300gr bullets in the 444. Due to simplicity-sake, and because I use a lot of 322 in other cartridges, I tend to use it for all my 444 reloading, both jacketed and cast. For hunting loads, I use 280gr Swift A-Frames and the above-pictured 285gr 434640, and I load them both with H-322. I can play a little with RL-7 and get a slight velocity pick-up on the cast bullet, but 322 wins with the A-Frame every time.

6pt-sika is "the man" when it comes to 444s. You should go to the levergun forum and search his thread on his 444 rifle collection. It's amazing/impressive!

[hunter64]

I have also tried IMR3031 for the heavier 444 bullets with good results but by far and away my best performers have been RL-7 and H-322.

[krag35]

For everyday plinking or shooting just for fun, I am running the Lyman cowboy bullet (429667) ahead of Blue Dot. when I take My 444 (Winchester) Elk hunting, I am shooting a group buy 280 gr LBT copy ahead of 2015.

I have tried Unique, H335, AAC2520, and 4756. Blue Dot and 2015 are what I settled on.

[Firebricker]

Like whats been posted above H-322 has been one of the best powder's in my .444. Later I'll see if I can scan a load table Brian Pierce did in an old Handloader issue. I was working out of town when I found my .444 in a local paper and bought it. Then during the same job I went to a gun show and found a set of RCBS dies for $15 and that issue of HL with the ...444 article on the cover for $2. I knew then it was meant to be !!

[grubbylabs]

Well I could not help my self I bought some 240 grain JSP and some IMR 4198. I only bought a pound of it so if I don't like it I can always change. It was the one powder that both my Speer book and Hornady book listed for all the bullet weights.

[arcticbreeze]

I'd be intrested to see what your 400 grain 444 bullet looks like !

I have three different 400 grainers I've had cut to date !

Mountain Molds did one as a sorta copy of "405WCF's" design of his 434-400GC . I also had LBT cut me a 433-400GC mold and last but not least BRP got me going with a "Ranch Dog Style" with traditinal lube grooves in a 432-400GC .

Those bullets have been for my 2002 Ballard rifled faster twist Marlin 444 .

While the rest of my molds 200-375 grains have been for the older slow twist Micro Groove 444's .

My 444 is a new one with the faster twist. My favorite mold is the Mihec brass mold he made in the cramer style. Mine is a solid FP version with out pins. It was his test mold he put up on Ebay. With this mold and its full diameter ogive (.433 with my alloy) I have to short seat a little and crimp with the LFC die. I also have a 385 gr that was cut by Mountain Molds based on Glen Fryxells design with the reduced (.429) ogive that casts 397 grains with my alloy. Thay both shoot great but the Mihec is a little rougher to cycle with is huge meplate but man does it ever put the smack down on wild pigs.

[6pt-sika]

My 444 is a new one with the faster twist. My favorite mold is the Mihec brass mold he made in the cramer style. Mine is a solid FP version with out pins. It was his test mold he put up on Ebay. With this mold and its full diameter ogive (.433 with my alloy) I have to short seat a little and crimp with the LFC die. I also have a 385 gr that was cut by Mountain Molds based on Glen Fryxells design with the reduced (.429) ogive that casts 397 grains with my alloy. Thay both shoot great but the Mihec is a little rougher to cycle with is huge meplate but man does it ever put the smack down on wild pigs.

I have a copy of the MiHec Cramer mold also !

It was a 433-295GC HP as well as I can remmeber !

Used that one last season to knock over a 4 point buck in august while hunting with DCP's . It did an excellent job I might add !

Hmmm I'd like to see a pic of your 397 grainer some time !

One can never have to many 400 grain molds for the 444 [smilie=l:

[DaveD]

I'd be intrested to see what your 400 grain 444 bullet looks like !

I have three different 400 grainers I've had cut to date !

Mountain Molds did one as a sorta copy of "405WCF's" design of his 434-400GC . I also had LBT cut me a 433-400GC mold and last but not least BRP got me going with a "Ranch Dog Style" with traditinal lube grooves in a 432-400GC .

Those bullets have been for my 2002 Ballard rifled faster twist Marlin 444 .

While the rest of my molds 200-375 grains have been for the older slow twist Micro Groove 444's .

Craig,

I'm covered up to 350 Gr. but wanna get a 375 and 400gr mold. If you could only have one of each, which woulf you go with?

I can't remember a GB for either of these on here, do you think they would go?

[Ranch Dog]

Ahhh... another 444nut! I shoot three Marlins; a 444 current production, 444P (carbine), and 444T (longrifle favorite). I also shoot three bullets of my design; the TLC432-265-RF and a 300 and 350 grain version of it. As has been mentioned; H322, H335, and H4198 are great powders for sending a big chunk of lead downrange. Welcome to the 444!

[Ranch Dog]

Just as a side note. Remington has never offered the 240-grain JSP they use in factory ammo as a reloading component. The 240-grain they do offer is designed for the 44 Mag, it is not the same bullet.

[6pt-sika]

Craig,

I'm covered up to 350 Gr. but wanna get a 375 and 400gr mold. If you could only have one of each, which woulf you go with?

I can't remember a GB for either of these on here, do you think they would go?

BRP has the cherries for both of the ones he cut for me . And I think a 2 cavity will more then likely cost you $75 plus shipping . These both have the RD profile but with normal lube grooves .

The Mountain Molds 375 and 400 work fine and the LBT in both weights work fine . But I think the BRP/RD molds I had cut were the better of the three designs ! And again nothing against the other two I just like those BRP/RD molds better ! It is my plan to field test both weights from all three makers on deer and or black bear . I killed my first ever black bear this past august with the Mountain Molds 433-375GC bullet and it did a marvelouse job ! Of course a 375 grain bullet to the temple of a 125 pound bruin at 9 1/2 yards doesn't take a whole heck of alot !!!!

Here's BRP's contact info from their website !

I have three of Bruce's molds and all are top notch !

http://www.brp.castpics.net/Contact.html

[6pt-sika]

I shoot three bullets of my design; the TLC432-265-RF and a 300 and 350 grain version of it !

When I get back from PI in february I'm gonna see if I can't make a few the BRP/RD 432-375GC and 432-400GC and send them to you to try in your cannons !

While they're not your preferred tumble lube groove the noses are the same as yours !

[grubbylabs]

So whats it take to get a 300 grain mold from ya?

[Ranch Dog]

So whats it take to get a 300 grain mold from ya?

It is very easy, go to my website and buy it. You will have it in a couple of days.

[DaveD]

BRP has the cherries for both of the ones he cut for me . And I think a 2 cavity will more then likely cost you $75 plus shipping . These both have the RD profile but with normal lube grooves .

The Mountain Molds 375 and 400 work fine and the LBT in both weights work fine . But I think the BRP/RD molds I had cut were the better of the three designs ! And again nothing against the other two I just like those BRP/RD molds better ! It is my plan to field test both weights from all three makers on deer and or black bear . I killed my first ever black bear this past august with the Mountain Molds 433-375GC bullet and it did a marvelouse job ! Of course a 375 grain bullet to the temple of a 125 pound bruin at 9 1/2 yards doesn't take a whole heck of alot !!!!

Here's BRP's contact info from their website !

I have three of Bruce's molds and all are top notch !

http://www.brp.castpics.net/Contact.html

Great, thanks Craig!

Figure the 375gr would be max in the 444T but I do have the 444P that has the faster twist. Have you tried the 400Gr in a 444P? Wondering if the 18.5" barrel takes too much velocity to stabilize the 400gr. even with the fast twist.

[DaveD]

It is very easy, go to my website and buy it. You will have it in a couple of days.

Michael,

Is the 350gr as heavy as you plan to go for the 444?

[6pt-sika]

Great, thanks Craig!

Have you tried the 400Gr in a 444P? Wondering if the 18.5" barrel takes too much velocity to stabilize the 400gr. even with the fast twist.

When Olle (405WCF) originally sent me some of his 400 grain bullets I tried them in a 444P I had with very promising results !

Later I had a kinda copy made of his bullet at Mountain Molds . Only problem with that bullet is I've yet to find a top punch to really fir the nose . Every time I size/lube I score all the way around the nose !

[grubbylabs]

It is very easy, go to my website and buy it. You will have it in a couple of days.

If it is not obvious I am very new to guns/reloading/casting and so on. So if I can please let me ask another question as well,

Given the rifle Winchester 94 unsure of the vintage because the record keeping by Winchester is crappy, how heavy would you recommend I go with it? I have read that the older rifles don't stabilize the heavy bullets well.

Thanks for your help

[grubbylabs]

Here are some pics of my lever,

[6pt-sika]

If it is not obvious I am very new to guns/reloading/casting and so on. So if I can please let me ask another question as well,

Given the rifle Winchester 94 unsure of the vintage because the record keeping by Winchester is crappy, how heavy would you recommend I go with it? I have read that the older rifles don't stabilize the heavy bullets well.

Thanks for your help

The rifling thing is just for Marlin's !

It doesn't have any bearing on the Winchesters in 444 !

Marlin made slow twist Micro Groove barrels in the 444 from 1965 until 1998 I think . They were 1:34 , while the post 1998 rifles were ballard rifled and 1:20 I believe .

The Winchester 94's in 444 had the same type rifling and the same twist their entire production time !

[grubbylabs]

Thanks 6pt

So is it only the micro groove that is the problem? My Lyman book says the gun is a 1:38 twist.

[6pt-sika]

Thanks 6pt

So is it only the micro groove that is the problem? My Lyman book says the gun is a 1:38 twist.

Actually Micro Groove isn't a problem if you have bullets that are large enough to fit the bore and hard enough to hold the shallow rifling !

Once you get over say 325 grains you need to give them the gas to stabalize !

I've had very decent results with bullets up to 375 grains in Micro barrels . And all I had to do was water quench my wheel weight alloy bullets and then poor the coal to them so to speak with a powder like H322 , RL-7 , H335 , XMR2015 or Varget !

If you desire to shoot 400 grainers in a Micro barrel you will more then likely have problems . But then how many folks actually NEED a 400 grain bullet in a 444 ? Or for that matter a 375 or 350 grain bullet either :bigsmyl2:

By no means do I actually need a bullet any heavier then the Ranch Dog 432-265GC ! But I sure like messing with all those others when the inclanation strikes me !

[DaveD]

When Olle (405WCF) originally sent me some of his 400 grain bullets I tried them in a 444P I had with very promising results !

Later I had a kinda copy made of his bullet at Mountain Molds . Only problem with that bullet is I've yet to find a top punch to really fir the nose . Every time I size/lube I score all the way around the nose !


You may check with Buckshot, he has a kit that he makes that works quite well for hard to fit nose punches.

[grubbylabs]

Actually Micro Groove isn't a problem if you have bullets that are large enough to fit the bore and hard enough to hold the shallow rifling !

Once you get over say 325 grains you need to give them the gas to stabalize !

I've had very decent results with bullets up to 375 grains in Micro barrels . And all I had to do was water quench my wheel weight alloy bullets and then poor the coal to them so to speak with a powder like H322 , RL-7 , H335 , XMR2015 or Varget !

If you desire to shoot 400 grainers in a Micro barrel you will more then likely have problems . But then how many folks actually NEED a 400 grain bullet in a 444 ? Or for that matter a 375 or 350 grain bullet either :bigsmyl2:

By no means do I actually need a bullet any heavier then the Ranch Dog 432-265GC ! But I sure like messing with all those others when the inclanation strikes me !

So if I stay 300 or less I should not have any problems.

Realistically I think this gun will mostly be used as a "Guide Gun" , I have a friend who goes with me archery hunting at least once a year and it will make a great gun for him to carry. I also anticipate lots of time at the range with it as well since it has been so much fun to shoot.

[6pt-sika]

So if I stay 300 or less I should not have any problems.



The Ranch Dog 300 or 350 will work fine in your rifle . You shouldn't have problems with either of them !

[MakeMineA10mm]

When Olle (405WCF) originally sent me some of his 400 grain bullets I tried them in a 444P I had with very promising results !

Later I had a kinda copy made of his bullet at Mountain Molds . Only problem with that bullet is I've yet to find a top punch to really fir the nose . Every time I size/lube I score all the way around the nose !

6pt-sika (and DaveD, if this applies) --

I never seem to have the right top-punch when it's time to size, or I get tired of changing the top-punch in my lubrisizer, so out of laziness and cheapness, along with a healthy dose of serendipity, I learned that ifyou are using a flat-nosed boolit, and you are careful to get the base of it located correctly in the sizer (something you must do anyway, even with a "fitted" nose punch), a simple, flat nose-punch in the lubri-sizer will push almost all of our boolits through the sizer die. I only change out top punches anymore for RN bullet. All the rest (regardless of how big or small the meplat is) just get pressed down into the lubri-sizer with the flat-nosed punch.

This had two side benefits I hadn't considered:

1. No more ring around the nose of the boolit from the nose-punch (something I'm still trying to solve for some of my RN boolits...), and
2. It helps concentricity. I noticed this, but just thought it was me and the way I operated my sizer, but then I ran across a note over at Accurate Molds' website, where Tom wrote that he found that almost no lubri-sizer he ever used was concentric between the sizer die and the ram-arm (where the top punch goes), and therefore, he recommends (and makes) flat top-punches, so the boolit, as it gets shoved into the sizer die, can slide a little bit latterally in order to "find it's own center."

Those flat nose top punches are a four-way improvement, as far as I'm concerned. My RNs I will deal with until I get to a nose-first lubri-sizer again...

[krag35]

"Those flat nose top punches are a four-way improvement, as far as I'm concerned. My RNs I will deal with until I get to a nose-first lubri-sizer again... "

I have veeen using a flat top punch on all my cast boolits for some time now, even the RN ones. All it does is bump a small metaplat on a RN bullet, I can see no difference in how they preform

grubby labs;
I have quite a few of the original RD 265's cast up out of water dropped WW, I can send you some to try if you like. I also have one of the Lee six bangers of the RD 300's from that abortion of a group buy sitting in the cabinet never have used it. I think it is the second version, Lee 310 nose on a RD body. Planning on running some tests after the first of the year, could send you some of them after I get them cast.

[grubbylabs]

Wow thanks this is the most help I have received of a forum you guys are awesome.

[Lloyd Smale]

heres a good article my best friend Al Anderson wrote on it http://www.leverguns.com/articles/anderson/444Outfitter.htm

[MakeMineA10mm]

"Those flat nose top punches are a four-way improvement, as far as I'm concerned. My RNs I will deal with until I get to a nose-first lubri-sizer again... "

I have veeen using a flat top punch on all my cast boolits for some time now, even the RN ones. All it does is bump a small metaplat on a RN bullet, I can see no difference in how they preform



Thanks for the info. I'll have to try it. My two concerns are:

1. Depending on the shape of the RN, the interaction of the RN with the flat punch might cause a skewing or yawing motion, which could cause the boolit to get it's concentricity destroyed. (Of course, this might only be noticable at the target in rifle bullets, or long-range pistol shooting.) I have used SWC top punches to size squat/blunt RN pistol bullets (Ly358242), and those worked just as you described, with the outside "corners" of the SWC top punch stopping the bullet from get contorted. I actually like the effect of a semi-flattened RN done this way.

2. Sometimes I want a RN bullet because I need a RN bullet (for the application I'm using, such as a difficult-feeding gun). For example, I designed my 9x135 Slippery for feeding in recalcitrant 9mms. Besides, I'm guessing it's shape wouldn't inter-act well with a flat-tip top-punch, I'm afraid (it's the one on the far right in this photo):
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=2750

[krag35]

I mostly load bottom feeders in 45, but have also loaded for the 9mm and 380 ACP. I never noticed a problem with "yaw" during bullet sizing. I use the same method on the 311284's I load in my 06 and Krag, and that is a long bullet. You have a valid point, it has just never happened to me (yet) and is something I had not considered untill now.

[6pt-sika]

Over the last two years I've acquired a fair amount of heavy molds for the 444 meaning 325 and above .

The three 400 grainers , three 375 grainers , one 370 grainer , two 350's and several in the 325-335 range .

I was thinking a month or so ago perhaps I'd like to try a 385 grainer to see if the Micro barrels would shoot it well enough to suit me and if not it could be relegated to my ballard 2002 rifle .

But then I kinda got to thinking whats the point .

Now I'm kinda thinking about 200-225 grainers !

At the moment I have a 207 , 215 and 225 grainers . The 215 and 225 are Lyman/RCBS standard molds and the 207 was a group buy here . I am thinking a 210 or 220 with the Ranch Dog nose and a gascheck might be worth my dollars to have made ;-)
Actually a pair with the Ranch Dog nose at 220 and 245 with GC's might be a better idea . Well atleast for me [smilie=6:

[MakeMineA10mm]

I mostly load bottom feeders in 45, but have also loaded for the 9mm and 380 ACP. I never noticed a problem with "yaw" during bullet sizing. I use the same method on the 311284's I load in my 06 and Krag, and that is a long bullet. You have a valid point, it has just never happened to me (yet) and is something I had not considered untill now.

Well, setting the base of the bullet down in the tapered top opening of the sizing die does give it a reasonably straight start, but that taper also means it's a little loose, and combined with the round nose and a flat punch, there can be some lateral instability. I think you'd have to look pretty close to catch it.

I did notice on those 358242s that once in a great while, the lube groove on one side was skinnier than on the other. I found that after noticing the nose would slump just slightly from one side to the other on a few bullets, so I started inspecting them closer and saw the lube-groove difference. These were fairly soft boolits, and I was loading them slow and shooting them close in a pistol, so it didn't cause me too much trouble. I tried using a SWC top punch for a narrower bullet, but it didn't seem to help, and just put the unsightly ring back on the nose...

I still love the shape that those SWC/Flat-tip top punches make on the broad RNs -- It's like a RNFP, but the curve from where the meplat goes to the nose is even more curved and the meplat is smaller. It's a great compromise for getting a flat tip to work in a finnicky-feeder. I've got two boolits drawn up for a 38/9 and a 44 that are based on these shapes.

But...

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread. Back to 444 talk!! [smilie=l:

6pt-sika (and others),
I've found a 210-230gr boolit is the ideal lightweight bullet in the .430" bore size. It's light enough to go fast and save alloy, but it's large enough in length to provide decent engagement and accuracy. I think the RD nose style in that weight would be a great idea. Don't keep it to yourself -- organize a group buy!!

[6pt-sika]

6pt-sika (and others),
I've found a 210-230gr boolit is the ideal lightweight bullet in the .430" bore size. It's light enough to go fast and save alloy, but it's large enough in length to provide decent engagement and accuracy. I think the RD nose style in that weight would be a great idea. Don't keep it to yourself -- organize a group buy!!


I killed three deer in about a minute earlier this season (well actually when DCP hunting) shooting a past 434-207GC group buy bullet !

This thing was nothing more then water quenched wheelweights pushed with a stout load of H322 . The first 2 dropped at the crack of the rifle and the third was keyed up after the seeing the other two fall , when I shot her she made it maybe 25 yards after the shot !

As to the group buy aspect of the thing I kinda stray away from that . I don't want the bother or the wait .

I found in BRP an avenue I can get what I want at a reasonable cost and with a fair amount of speed . Same can be said for Mountain Molds .

[grubbylabs]

I can't wait till Christmas, That's when I get all my casting stuff and I can try to cast a few of my own for my 45 and my 44 mag and my .444 Whooo hooo. I only have a 240 grain SWC so I am not sure how it will feed in my .444 but I should be able to at least load them one at a time I would think. I am going to be looking for a better mold for it soon enough, not sure but I think I want one that has a gas check.

[Lloyd Smale]

the bullet ive had great luck with for accuracy and performance on game is the ballistic cast 340 lfngc. It has two crimp groves and when seated to the deap one runs like butter in mine outfitter and hits game with athourity.