would like advice on 44 mag revolver purchase

[milsurpcollector1970]

I plan on buying a 44mag pistol for hunting and would like some advice

I really like the look of the S&W mdl 29, is this a good pistol? I have heard they can shoot loose.

what is a good length of bbl? anything longer than 6" would seem to me to be hard to hold steady.

Is the ruger super redhawk a good gun? They dont look as pretty as the S&W's but they are cheaper.

What is the going rate for a S&W mdl 29 6"

Does anyone know if you can get a nickle pistol refinished they seem to be cheaper but I cant stand the way nickle looks

[454PB]

Man, you're going to get a lot of different opinions on this!

It all depends on YOUR needs. A good basic heavy duty revolver for hunting is the Ruger Super Blackhawk. They are accurate, will stand up to years of heavy loads, and relatively light. A scope can be added if that is your desire. I owned one of these for many years and shot several deer and other critters with it.

The Ruger Redhawk and SRH are fine choices, very heavy duty, and will also accept scopes. I own one of each. They are relatively heavy to pack all day, I use a shoulder holster for these.

The S&W model 29 and 629 are fine guns, but not as heavy duty as the Rugers. If you plan to shoot less than 10's of thousands of rounds, they will serve you well. I believe a model 29 sells for around $500 in my part of the world, stainless is about $75 to $100 more.

You have to decide if you like blued or stainless. I agree with you, I don't care for chrome plated guns, even though I happen to own several of them. Hey, you can't pass up a good deal when you find one....

[Lloyd Smale]

like was said a superblackhawk is hard to beat. You wont shoot a smith loose with factory 240 grain ammo. Its when you push the heavy bullets like 300 grains over 1200 that they get beat up and the smiths will beat you up at that level anyway. My favorite 44 is my 4 inch 629

[Bass Ackward]

These guys have pretty much laid it out for you, but there is one more advantage associated with the Rugers is that the cylinders are longer allowing you to go up in bullet weight and not take up case capacity. And the weight helps for aiming and recoil too.

So I would say that if I wanted 240 grain bullets or less, I would consider a S&W. If you want something to carry often and shoot less, again this would be a Smith. But if you want to shoot a lot or shoot hard and heavy, then you really ought to leave the Smith alone.

Since you mention cost as a factor, another option is a Raging Bull model too, that is if you don't want to consider a good single shot.

Handle them at your shop. You will settle on something.

[BBA]

Check out a Dan Wesson 44mag model 744 These are built like a tank and can handle heavy loads. They are very accurate and can be found at good prices.

[44man]

First you don't need a double action for hunting because you will never use it. You have a larger and heavier gun with all the extra works.
I would get the Ruger SBH in 7-1/2" or the Hunter model. The longer barrel gets the noise farther from your ears and will not bother you when hunting.
My SBH has just passed 57,600 HEAVY rounds and it still is tight as new and will still hold an inch at 50 yd's. I use 320 to 330 gr boolits.
I prevent wear by using STP on the ratchet and pin.

[klausg]

Lot's of good advice out there, so I won't add too much, except to answer your last question. Yes you can get a nickle-plated gun refinished, but generally the cost of the re-finishing is going to eat up whatever initial savings you had over the stainless. I agree completely with 454PB on these, I don't really like 'em, but some deals are just too hard to pass on; I got my 586 for a song and that shiny stuff is well, sort of starting to grow on me [smilie=1: . 44man is also correct, if all you're going to use it for is hunting, the only real difference between an SA and DA revolver is that the DA weighs more and has more parts that could possibly fail. Hope this helps.

-Klaus

Edited for a typo I didn't catch.

[Edward429451]

I own a 7.5" Redhawk, a 7.5" SBH, and a 4" 29-2, and totally concur with everything you've been told already.

My SBH is the most accurate of them all BTW.

[Larry Gibson]

milsurpcollector1970;112758

Everthing has pretty much been said. However I will add that if you are intent on a double action revolver then make sure it fits your hand with a proper grip and you can use the double action trigger pull. Many of us with smaller hands find the S&W N frames to be to large for proper double action trigger pull. They are fine for single action but as mentioned if you only shoot single action there's no need for the double action revolver (unless you just plain like them). In DA .44s I find the Colt Anaconda to fit the best and fortunatley for me I got one years ago. For me I find the Colt to be a much better revolver than the M629. The Ruger Redhawk (my second choice in a DA .44 revolver) also is a good fit and of course the Dan Wessons can be made to fit any hand.

With a DA .44 revolver the felt recoil is much more severe than with a single action revolver. Many who find the recoil of a DA .44 objectionable find no problems shooting a SA .44. The Super Blackhawk is always a good choice as is the 50th Anniversery Flat top (I really like mine). There are a couple other makes out there but it's really hard to go wrong with the Ruger. Mt Colt is a 4" and both my SA .44s are 6 and 6 1/2" barrels. I am 5-10 and have carried them on belted holsters for years with no problem. Some find the shorter barrels "easier to carry" but then I don't have problems with 24" barreled rifles in close quarters either. I think it's just personal preference.

Larry Gibson

[9.3X62AL]

My current 44 magnum is a blued Redhawk x 5.5". It is heavier than the M-29 series, and a LOT more comfortable to shoot--esp. with full-value loads. The M-29's do best for me with Keith-level loads, 240-250 grain SWCs at 1200 FPS.

[txpete]

I went down this road earlier this year.while I really like the smith 29's I bought a t/c g2 contender with a 14 " barrel in 44 mag.since you said hunting think about the t/c.
easy scope mounting
easy to buy a extra barrel
very accurate
stock sights are excellent.great sight picture.
pete

since I bought it I have picked up a 30-30 barrel and looking for a 41 mag barrel:mrgreen:

[AZ-Stew]

I have no idea how many thousands of rounds of Keith-style handloads have been through my 30+ year old S&W M-29, but it will still keep 10 out of 10 on a 12"x12" plate at 100 yards. Yes, felt recoil is different between a single action and a double action, but that's due more to the grip shape than any other reason. If you can't take the recoil of a DA, try another style of grips or add a scope. The additional weight will reduce the recoil noticably. The later models of M-29 and the 629s with the full length underlug on the barrel are very sturdy and have had engineering changes incorporated, as compared to my older ones, that make them very durable. S&W called the upgrades a "durability package". I have one of these, as well, but it's hardly broken in.

A longer barrel (6-7.5") is an advantage for two reasons. 1.) In general, a longer barrel will generate more velocity from the same ammo, compared to a 4" barrel. 2.) The longer sight radius will help you aim more precisely. Yes, the sights will appear to jiggle around more, and the answer is more practice. The more you practice, the less they'll move around. The less they move, the more precisely you'll shoot. A shorter barrel, due to its shorter sight radius merely masks the relative sight movement.

Out of the box, a Smith DA will have a better single action trigger pull (and that's what you'll hunt with) than a Ruger Super Blackhawk will. Now, that's not to say the Ruger can't be made to have a nice, crisp trigger, but that's additional work to be paid for at the gunsmith shop. It's not a good job for the novice tinkerer.

I own one nickel revolver, another M-29 from the mid 1970's with a 6-1/2" barrel like my blued one, that's a safe-sitter. I bought it because the price was right and I had always wanted one. When they're in original condition, they're beautiful guns. That's the way mine will stay. I also own a stainless M-686 .357 that's my wife's carry gun. Otherwise, I don't have any shiny guns. I prefer blue. And as someone said, refinishing is costly. The money is better spent on practice ammo.

My only Ruger revolver is a New Model Blackhawk in 45 Colt with a 4-5/8" barrel. Personally, I prefer the S&W grip frame. It just feels better in my hands. The Ruger is fun to plink with, though. Those big flat-nosed Keith SWCs give the target a real slap when they arrive, and I only shoot them at about 900 fps.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that from your questions, I gather that you are new at the handgunning sports. If this is true, I suggest that you invest a year or so of dedicated practice with your .44 before you head for the deer woods. It takes most of us quite a while before we can handle the recoil of a .44, are able to hit a deer-chest-sized target at hunting ranges without a rest on a regular basis, and generally learn to deal with the differences between handgun and rifle hunting. Big game hunting with a handgun is for experienced handgun shooters. Big game wounding comes from inexperienced handgun shooters. Let's not give the anti's any more excuses.

Otherwise, I agree with much of what has been said. Good luck with whatever you choose to buy, and welcome to the handgunning and cast bullet shooting fraternity.

Regards,

Stew

[Four Fingers of Death]

I've never owned a S&W 44Mag, but I have a 357/586 that I have shot lots and lots and lots! It crunches my middle finger with heavy loads and I can't see the 29 being much different. One the other hand I have a 44Mag Vaquero which digested lots of heavy loads until I got my NMSBH, which has an identical grip. I like the smooth hogleg grips with heavy loads, the gun slides through your hand absorbing recoil and bringing the hammer closer to your thumb for recocking, How neat is that? S&W or Ruger, you'll love either one. The Rugers are pretty bomb proof though, they are not indestructable, but will gobble up thousands of sane (well kinda on the edge of sane) loads. Mick.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Handguns/Dvc00088.jpg

[Maven]

MSC'70, Lots of good advice above. Two years ago I got the idea that I "needed" a .44mag. to play with and I didn't want to pay for a double-action, although I did look at a used Redhawk. Since I like the appearance of Ruger single actions and the way they fit my hand (have a BH & Old Army), I chose a SBH with the 10.5" bbl. and couldn't be happier with it. With open sights and jacketed or cast bullets, it will consistently shoot under 1" @ 25yds. from a rest (so will the other two I mentioned). Moreover, the infamous mismatch between the cyl. throat diameters and the bore seems to have been resolved. In short, I couldn't be happier with it and Ruger products in general.

[Jack Stanley]

I bought a six inch model 29 in 1985 and shot a bunch of reloads through it . Mostly a hundred ninety-five grain wadcutter , a lot of that was single action shooting while competing against the .38 wadcutter guns . Some of it was double action practice "for fun" . But , all of it got me ready to shoot deer with a two hundred forty-five grain cast hollow point with a charge of twenty-one grains of 2400 . I don't shoot anything bigger than deer , or farther than forty yards .... so far each deer has fallen on the spot :mrgreen:
Later I bought a four inch twenty-nine "for fun" , full power stuff will get your attention after a box of fifty or so . It normally shoots two hundred grain "cowboy" bullets at nine hundred feet per second . For me it's high on the fun factor and easy on the hand and easy to carry while cleaning fence lines . It's not to heavy and doesn't get in the way while running a chainsaw .

Jack

[454PB]

One of the things I forget to mention is that there are a lot of perfectly good, little fired used .44 magnums in the gunshops. I bet 90% of purchasers put less than 100 rounds through their .44's and decide it's too much gun or too expensive to shoot.

[milsurpcollector1970]

Thanks everyone for the replies

I have a great deal of experience with semi auto's 9mm 45acp, but none with big bore revolvers

I owned a ruger Colt .45 copy and the cowboy type grip never felt comfortable with 2 hands and one handed I couldnt hit anything. The ruger was well built with a good fit and finish

I have big hands so large grips are not a problem for me.

[9.3X62AL]

The Bisley grip on the Ruger Bisleys is a real step up in comfort with heavier loads from the plow handle grip on the Blackhawks. I put a set of Hogue neoprenes on my Blackhawk x 41 x 6.5", and those are a real upgrade for big-handed shooters.

[AZ-Stew]

454PB said:


One of the things I forget to mention is that there are a lot of perfectly good, little fired used .44 magnums in the gunshops. I bet 90% of purchasers put less than 100 rounds through their .44's and decide it's too much gun or too expensive to shoot.

Correctamundo! That's where I got my nickel plated M-29. A lot of guys bought these during the "Dirty Harry" feeding frenzy, shot half a box of ammo, then stuffed them in the closet. They're beginning to emerge now through estate sales and "I'd rather have the money" transactions. They're mostly in near-new condition. My nickle one had a single small scratch in the plating near the muzzle, but it disappeared after a few light passes of a lead removal cloth. I'd like to shoot it once in a while, but it blackens the cylinder face so badly that it's not worth it. I'm sure that the powder residue can only be cleaned so many times before I start to remove the nickel finish. I don't want to find out how many cleanings that takes, so my shiny revolver is now for optical enjoyment only. I have two nice, blue shooters.

Regards,

Stew

[44man]

Deputy, not so! I bought a Ruger Hunter with the Bisley grip and sold it fast. I have large hands and a large middle finger knuckle from shooting archery all my life. The Bisley beat my knuckle sensless on the trigger guard. The SBH with rubber grips is great as is the BH and Vaquero with rubber grips.

[9.3X62AL]

Interesting, 44.......the BisHawk 45 Colt has been very nice so far, that's with loads of 310 grains at 1100 FPS. There's not enough recoil with the BisHawk 357 to set the problem up, methinks. The 41 Blackhawk about beat my knuckles senseless with the stock stocks, though.

[44man]

Most trigger guards do a job on me. The Bisley puts it closer to my finger and doesn't roll away like the hog leg does. It pushes straight back into my finger. I must have the rubber grips with the filler behind the guard. Granted, it recoiled different and felt good just holding it but it hurt! I can shoot my .475 BFR with heavy loads all day but the Bisley was only good for 6 shots before I ran for a glove. My .45 Vaquero beat me with 335 gr boolits so I put rubber on it too and now can shoot all day.

[Lloyd Smale]

kind of strange how different grip frames work for differnt people. Ive had my middle nuckle operated on twice from getting beat up by big bores. Its permanatly swelled and the nerve endings are very sensitive. I can shoot my .500 and .475 bisley linebaughs with no problem and can handle a regular blackhawk just fine. The only gun that gets me is the dragon framed supers. One shot with heavy .44s and theres tears in my eyes. My first 44 was a super and i shot the crap out of that gun and will pay the price for it the rest of my life. Rubber grips that fill the area behind the trigger guard help but then id have to be seen at the range with rubber grips on a single action and id just as soon go there wearing a skirt!

[9.3X62AL]

Hogue black neoprene and KILTS, it is. :-)

[44man]

Guns are for fun shooting, not pain shooting, nor are they status symbols which is why I will never buy a Freedom. Unless I need to brag to someone how much money they cost.
The SBH is tough on the finger but there is more room for the nice Pachmeyer grips. I have shot mine so much that the rubber is wearing just behind the trigger guard, but never a pain from it at all.
Lloyd, a skirt and a nice pearl handled .25 might do it--HEE, HEE.

[Lloyd Smale]

A little pain is good for your character. Cant get me to wear a condom so i cant very well make one of my sa guns wear one.

[jar-wv]

Most painful firearm I ever shot was NMSBH. Bought it new and and first cylinder full brought pain with every shot. tried holding it differant for each round and found a new to knuckle to skin every time as a result. got a set of pachmeyer's on it and now its a pussycat. The grips on that gun look realy nice in the box but are not funciounable for me. Quess it's cause of my rather large hands. Not the prettiest revolver in the world but we're not out to win any beauty contests and I don't go to any fancy ranges to listen to anybody makeing fun of it. My shootin range is either out the back door or in the woods behind the house. Killed lots of deer with it though and thats what counts to me. BTW my NM 45's have Houges for the same reason. Excellant grips, though to a purist I'm sure the guns look gooked up. Wish I'd known at the time when I purchased all the above about the Bisley's. Young and dumb I quess and am still to dumb to sell a NM and buy a Bisley, though if I bought a new one thats what it would be. Something about selling makes me say NO.

Deputy Al. Hey my last name is of Scottish heritage, but the legs they aint so purty.


jar

[44man]

If Lloyd ever came over I would put the purdy wood grips back on. Soons he leaves, the rubber goes back!

[lawboy]

I seem to recall that hard RUBBER grips were an original grip for Colt Single Action Army revolvers. Why anyone would make fun of rubber grips on a single action is beyond me. It is a traditional as apple pie!

[Dale53]

I have shot both the Ruger Super Blackhawk and a Model 29 83/8" (both blued) since the 60's. I have taken several deer with each. The Smith out of the box had a wondereful trigger. The Ruger needed serious gunsmith work on the trigger. Both revolvers shoot extremely well out to 100 yards. Many years ago I added a Ruger Redhawk to my working collection. It required even more work by a good gunsmith before it's trigger was up to the task. I tend to use the Redhawk (stainless) when the weather is bad and the Smith when the weather is good. You don't have to worry about the Smith wearing out unless you over load them. I have over 10,000 rounds of 23.0 H110 with a 250 gr Keith bullet thru mine and it is still as tight as when I first got it. I have never shot seriously reduced loads in the Smith (if i want a .44 special I have several) but I haven't overloaded it either. I used to hunt with 24.0 grs of H110 plus the 250 Keith but I discovered that the deer didn't notice the difference between 23 and 24 grs so I just used my "practice" load until I started hunting with the Lee 310gr RF that Frank Siefer and I designed. Frankly, the Keith is all anyone needs on deer size game but we designed the 310 for bear and it shoots so dern good it is hard to pass it up.

Most of my deer have been close (I'm a serious hunter or was before I got old and feeble(:>)) and getting close is part of the deal for me.

However, I have shot two deer in excess of 75 yards (standing two handed). To be SURE of your performance while shooting a live animal with a revolver that recoils as sharply as a .44 magnum requires lots of range time with full loads.

They are wonderful hunting tools if you will do your part. That means a lot of shooting (lots of bullet casting and reloading). I am absolutely sure of my .44's at ranges up to 125 yards. That is where I draw the line but frankly never had to shoot that far in "real life".

I would like to add one thing. The first thing that I do when I buy a .44 magnum is to replace the grips with a set of Pachmayrs.

Dale53

[Lloyd Smale]

I dont mind them on a DA gun and the original rubbers on a ruger or colt are fine. My dislike is for the oversized rubbers on single actions. I actually hate oversized woods on single actions too. A single action is designed to roll in the hand not come straight back. The oversized grips not only look terrible (in my opinion ) but do a poor job with recoil. I hope nobody takes my opinion of there choise in guns or grips personal. What looks and works good for me may not for you. to be honest the first sa i had was a 357 blackhawk and the first thing i did was put pachmyars on it. But then again back 30 years ago i carried around a pack of trojans too!! Never knew what id take home. I guess over the years my standards in what i take home in both guns and women have been refined by mistakes i made with both.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have big hands and found that the Bisley grips chopped me up big time, still got scars from it. I don't mind the standard NMSBH, BH and old Vaquero grips with big loads, they slip through the hand nicely and place the hammer near your thumb ready to recock it, as I have said before, how neat is that? I don't mind the old dragoon style trigger guard either, it is really a good feeling gun for a big guy, pity they look like sin though. Mick

[MT Gianni]

Hogues, or Pachmeyers is the first modifications I make. I have shot a blackhawk with oversize longer grips and it helped some but the standard grip leaved me with a finger and part of the palm under the grip and my groups double when that happens. My redhawk out shoots the old SBH fwiw. Gianni

[9.3X62AL]

Lloyd--good point about how the Colt-esque plow handle grip is supposed to allow the revolver to "roll up" in the hand. For me, that works up to the point of standard 45 Colt or warmed 44 Special. Much heavier recoil than that, and I go neoprene. THAT isn't a panacea, either--that good "grippy" tactile stuff can set up blisters pretty readily. If a lot of hard-kicking revolver work is on the agenda, I get a pair of gloves on. For me, the Bisley Rugers "as found" have been the best for handling substantial recoil comfortably. For others, they're not so good. If I were to get another 44 Magnum, I would probably sell the existing Redhawk and get two--a 4" Model 29/629 for carrying and lighter service as detailed above, and a BisHawk x 7.5" for stomper loads. That--right after parking the sailboat in the yacht basin, having hit the lottery. The Redhawk is kind of a compromise between those two platforms, and its service for over 10 years is kind of long duration for me. I tend to keep things for 4-5 years and sell them, unless they really fill a niche well. Maybe it's the single best for me, after all--the Redhawk is certainly the longest-lived 44 Magnum in my collection to date.

Nothing personal was taken or intended by anyone's comments here--I think the point of the thread is to explore the several options available to manage recoil in the 44 Magnum, and people's experiences differ. Tastes in grip materials and recoil management/toleration are subjective things, and the responses reflect that. No harm, no foul--as the late Lakers announcer Chick Hearn would say.

[BD]

My two cents on this issue: Dan Wesson 744. Stronger than the smith, more accurate than the rugers, and comes with a really good solid rubber grip, not just some thin panels over a steel frame like the pachmers on a smith or a ruger. Being able to change barrel lengths is a nice extra. being able to clean the barrel from the rear is another plus. The single action trigger pull is as good as any. The double action pull takes some work to slick up, and while it may never equal a good smith, it's way ahead of a redhawk. The best of them are the newer ones made in Norwich, NY.
BD

[44man]

Shoot a few hundred full house .475's in a day and you will all fall in love with the little .44! You will think you dropped to a .38! Now if you are real adventurous, use a short barrel Freedom arms .475. If you can flex your wrists any more, you will think the .44 is wonderful. There is nothing like shooting bigger guns to make you wonder why you thought the .44 was so bad.

[9.3X62AL]

There is nothing like shooting bigger guns to make you wonder why you thought the .44 was so bad.

Uh, right! I'm happy with top-end 44 Magnum loads as my personal maximum, and Keith-level loads (240-250 @ 1200 FPS) are 90% of what I shoot in the 44 these days. In the Redhawk, those are almost docile. BTW, if you shoot a LOT of D/A strokes with the Redhawk, they smoothe out some over time--but I don't think it's possible to make a stacking coil spring as smooth as a leaf spring, regardless of polishing effort.

[BruceB]

All my double-action .44 maggie experience has been with Smith and Wesson revolvers. They have now been "cooked down" to a single .44 Mountain Revolver of 1989, the original gun of the current "Mountain Gun" series. It is flatly unpleasant to shoot with my standard RCBS 250KT/21.0 2400 load, and now mostly lives on a diet of 200s and 250s at speeds below 1000 fps, basically a heavy .44 Special. Nothing more is needed in Nevada.

However, the Mountain .44 saw a great deal of fresh air as my anti-bear gun when we lived in the Northwest Territories, where it was loaded with the heavy load above. It was a great comfort in some dicey situations.

Our 40-year old Super Blackhawk gets the most out of the same load, running the RCBS 250 at almost 1500 fps from the 7.5" tube. My wife cleanly killed a bull moose in its tracks with the Super, firing 429244 SWCs in those days. Shot was 65 yards, two rounds in the neck, DRT. The Super wears Pachmayr tires, which are an enormous aid to shooting and eliminate the pain that the "Dragoon" trigger guard normally gives me. The original walnut is far prettier, but the Pachys are far superior in performance.

After seeing such performance from the .44, and having driven those 429244s RIGHT THROUGH adult bison on chest shots, I see no need for more than the .44 has delivered for us. As long as cast boolits were used, the .44 completely penetrated every animal shot with it, and broke bone en route on some of them. What more could I ask?

[44man]

Bruce, I agree and love the .44. I have killed a pile of deer with them and will never be without one. They seem to be more effective on deer then the .475 and 45-70 revolvers. At least it seems as if deer do not get as far after being hit. Maybe the larger guns plow through too fast! I can't explain it.

[Bass Ackward]

After seeing such performance from the .44, and having driven those 429244s RIGHT THROUGH adult bison on chest shots, I see no need for more than the .44 has delivered for us. As long as cast boolits were used, the .44 completely penetrated every animal shot with it, and broke bone en route on some of them. What more could I ask?


Bruce,

Nice testomonial. I remember your wife's moose, but never the Bison feat. Lead has a dynamic that only slight changes in hardness or meplat size can make tremendous changes in penetration capability. Any idea how hard a mix you were shootin with the Bison?

All,

Strange marketing trends going on right now. Rifles made to get lighter and handier and handguns are going the opposite direction. They have actually passed each other on the weight scales.

I am with Lloyd. Strange how I can be totally in love with a Bisley grip and not realize that someone else might not be comfortable with them. Yet, even Ruger still sells many styles of single actions so that has to tell you something. It's what drives the aftermarket for sure. And as far as weight, I have to wear a Bisley in a cross draw and still balance it out with a canteen to keep from having back spasims at the end of the day. Getting old I guess.

[versifier]

A longer barrel (6-7.5") is an advantage for two reasons. 1.) In general, a longer barrel will generate more velocity from the same ammo, compared to a 4" barrel. 2.) The longer sight radius will help you aim more precisely. Yes, the sights will appear to jiggle around more, and the answer is more practice. The more you practice, the less they'll move around. The less they move, the more precisely you'll shoot. A shorter barrel, due to its shorter sight radius merely masks the relative sight movement.
Regards,

Stew
Sorry if I digress a minute and hijack this thread temporarily.
This quote should be framed and on the shop wall of every handgun shooter and in the classroom of every handgun instructor. .44 mags aren't the only handguns that see too little practice. Small short barreled carry guns are generally not very pleasant to shoot, and often are not. The shorter the barrel, the harder it is to shoot accurately and consistantly. There are a lot of, for instance, S&W m36's and others of similar size around, a very popular class of carry gun, but downright abusive to shoot with the +P loads they're stuffed with to carry, so they don't get shot very often. This is fine I guess if you are shooting within 10 or 15 feet, but not much good if you can't keep them on the paper at 25yds. Snubbies need more practice than any other class of handgun to master.

That said, I am in full agreement with others, your choice depends on your hand size, purpose, and boolit weight. S&W, Ruger, or T/C are my picks, DW's are nice but hard to find around here, and I wouldn't own a Taurus (I watched another one, a Millenium, s**t the bed at the range yesterday - "But they have a great service department," he said. "How many times have you sent it back to them?" I asked. "Oh, five or six..." Enough said.) I buy American, and usually used.

[44man]

Bass, watcha got in the canteen?

[AZ-Stew]

Versifier,

I'll take your comments as a pretty high complement. Thanks.

Further down your post you give Taurus a pretty good pounding. Hmmm... Makes me wonder about my recent choice of a Model 425 Tracker titanium .41 Mag with a 4" barrel. The reason I chose it over the Smith is that it is similar in size to a K or L frame Smith, while the Smith titanium .41 is a full N frame. As a carry gun, the Taurus is more concelable, though I do give up one round capacity compared to the Smith.

Up until this revolver, every Taurus I've picked up had a trigger shape that felt very strange to me, having shot Smiths for over 30 years. The Taurus triggers just didn't have the right curve to them. This one is different and feels about like a Smith. Not exactly, but close enough. I figured I could live with it.

When I bought the gun I also bought a box of Speer Gold Dot 210gr loads and a box of Winchester Silvertips that carry 250 gr bullets. You know what they say, carry guns should be loaded with factory ammo. Well..... I have two guns that I consider to be "vicious" when it comes to recoil. One is a T/C Contender with a 16-1/4" MagnaPorted barrel and Pachmyer rubber grips. Cal: 45-70. With 300-350gr bullets at 1700-1900 fps, the recoil is truly nasty. I have a leather dress glove that I turned inside out, detached the lining and glued in a piece of foam from a drink can insulator as a pad, then put the liner back where it belonged. It works. I can shoot over 50 rounds at a sitting with it, but no one wants to sit at adjacent benches at the range while I'm shooting it.

The other "vicious" gun I have is the Taurus titanium .41 with factory loads. Especially with the 250gr Winchesters. The trigger guard gives the middle finger knucle a solid rap with either load, and the muzzle blast, enhanced by the barrel porting, will clear your sinuses even at an outdoor range. I have no desire to experience the blast effect in a closed area, such as in a hallway of my home in the dark of night or in a car while warding off a carjacker. It would be too much of a distraction when I might need my faculties for other, more important issues at the time.

So, I went back to my old standby load of a Keith-style SWC over 6.7 grains of IMR-7625, which on initial trials in this gun gets me about 750-800 fps. This is about 100 fps less than I have gotten from a couple of M-57 Smiths, one of which I still own, the other was (stupidly) sold about 10 years ago. Apparently, this gun will take a little more load development. One other thing about it is that the cylinder is a bit short, requiring me to prepare a separate batch of brass that is trimmed shorter than standard (.41 Spl?) so I can seat and crimp the bullet normally without having it protrude from the cylinder face.

On the up side, this load in the Taurus recoils about like a Model 19 Smith .357 (K frame) with 158 gr factory loads. It's quite easy to control and doesn't beat up the shooter. In addition, these loads will considerably reduce wear on the gun. I'll let you know if I have any durability issues.

Again, thanks for the complement.

Regards,

Stew

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=Bass Ackward;113596]Bruce,

Lead has a dynamic that only slight changes in hardness or meplat size can make tremendous changes in penetration capability. Any idea how hard a mix you were shootin with the Bison?

Bass;

At that time and place, it was undoubtedly a 1/3 lead-2/3 linotype alloy. It was easier for me to get lino, than straight lead! This was because a close friend (and bulletcaster/pistol targetshooter) had bought a local printing company. The company had phased-out the linotype machinery, but had SEVEN TONS of 22-pound pigs stored in the basement, and several more tons in the form of finished type strips. Hawg heaven, except that for a few uses the lino is just too hard, and field boolits for game is one such use. I'd found that lino shattered on some shots and went to the 1/3-2/3 mix which worked great.

We never actually HUNTED moose and bison with handguns; it's just that a few opportunities (or necessities, in my wife's moose episode) arose and we always had a good handgun or two at hand....isn't that the very definition of "why a handgun is useful"? On the bison, I used the .44 for finishing shots on several occasions, and also tested a few 429244s on the bodies of freshly-killed animals. I was impressed, to say the least.

Looking at that 429244 boolit, we can see that Mr. Thompson's thinking in the 1950s was surprisingly close to supposedly "NEW" designs like the LBT series...big meplat for the diameter of the bullet. We liked it, for sure. The mould now lives with my brother in northern Alberta.

[FISH4BUGS]

I have a 98% 5 screw S&W Model 29 6 1/2" that I shoot the daylights out of. I was lucky to find it and I paid $650 a number of years ago for it without box, tools, or original grips.....it is a SHOOTER. Today the 5 screw 29's with all the accessories are selling for $1800+ so I don't feel too bad. I have seen unfired ones for $2395!
The quality of workmanship in a 1956 big frame S&W is like a hand made gun - in fact, it almost IS a hand made gun with the finishing they put into it during those years.
If you can EVER get one of those, even the 4 screw model, snap it up. You will not go wrong.

[Bass Ackward]

This was because a close friend (and bulletcaster/pistol targetshooter) had bought a local printing company. The company had phased-out the linotype machinery, but had SEVEN TONS of 22-pound pigs stored in the basement, and several more tons in the form of finished type strips.


Bruce,

Buddy .... Pal .... I am available for adoption if you put me in your will. :grin:

It is interesting to look at older designs and try to think what the designer was thinking and the purpose for which it was crafted.

I wish I had something big to test on. My family always stood in the way of progress when we butchered, as they did not fully appreciate my testing ambitions. Bison carcas would provide great information. And confidence.

[Montanan]

I want one of each:

Both of these are in .44 mag
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/133T.jpg http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/68T.jpg

This one is in .41 Mag
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/133T.jpg

[Hunter]

Well I am a little late coming in here but I would like to express my opinion on wheelguns as well. I have both the Ruger Super Blackhawk and Ruger Rednawk, and both are excellent wheelguns. the Super Blackhawk served as my trail/camping pistol for a while and she is a tough one. I finally had to break down and have her reblued due to finish wear but that would be the only problem I have had with either Ruger. I just don't think you can go wrong with a Ruger wheelgun in any caliber. I just bought a GP 100 (last year) and the quality is consistant in all their wheelguns.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Deputy, not so! I bought a Ruger Hunter with the Bisley grip and sold it fast. I have large hands and a large middle finger knuckle from shooting archery all my life. The Bisley beat my knuckle sensless on the trigger guard. The SBH with rubber grips is great as is the BH and Vaquero with rubber grips.

Good to hear someone else with the same problem, I been ******** about my Bisley for ages, i thought that I was the only one who had problems with this gun, I have scars all over the web of my hand off it (us Irish don't give in easily, especially after we have plonked a considerable amount of dollars on the counter:

Me + Bisley+hot loads= blood and skin on hammer and bruised inner thumb knuckle on top of frame, therefore, sell the sucker quick! Mick.

[jim4065]

Been awhile since I fired a 44 mag revolver, but my first one was a SBH with the square trigger guard. It beat the hell out of my middle knuckle - enough to make me trade the gun. Have to try one of the rounded trigger guards one of these days.

[pjh421]

I've seen custom grips in pictures of SBH's that covered the back of the trigger guard so that your finger would clear when the gun recoils. I shot an SBH around 1986 and didn't hurt nearly as much as I did when I fired some hot .44 magnum loads from a standard 10" Contender. In fact, I don't think the SBH was uncomfortable at all. It had the regular factory grips. I think a lot of this has to do with one's tolerance for recoil and the geometry of one's hand.

The top of the trigger (where it disappears into the bottom of the frame) on my 629-3 had a sharp edge on it that consistently carved on my finger when firing factory loads. With lighter plinking loads it wasn't noticable but I rounded it with a file just the same. It's fine now.

You just have to try lots of different guns (c'mon, you can do it) until you discover one you really like. At the range, people are usually more than willing to let someone else try out their guns. They're proud of them & want you to see the genious in their selection.

Lastly, I think powder fouling looks good on any gun. It personifies and lends character to an otherwise lifeless object. We should all try to get powder fouling on our guns more often.

Paul

[spurrit]

.... and I wouldn't own a Taurus (I watched another one, a Millenium, s**t the bed at the range yesterday - "But they have a great service department," he said. "How many times have you sent it back to them?" I asked. "Oh, five or six..." Enough said.) I buy American, and usually used.

He must be the luckiest SOB on earth! I haven't heard of anyone having a good experience with those jerks! How's FOUR MONTHS to fix or replace a thunderbolt pump rifle?

[spurrit]

We never actually HUNTED moose and bison with handguns; it's just that a few opportunities (or necessities, in my wife's moose episode) arose and we always had a good handgun or two at hand....isn't that the very definition of "why a handgun is useful"? On the bison, I used the .44 for finishing shots on several occasions, and also tested a few 429244s on the bodies of freshly-killed animals. I was impressed, to say the least.


Sir,

I believe Elmer Keith stated that he never really set out to hunt with his handguns, he just happened to always be carrying one when he had an opportunity at a shot he could make. [not a direct quote, but you get the gist of it] Many times, before I got around to buying good guns, when I was working on ranches, I wished I had a handgun that'd shoot minute of coyote at 50 yards, since I routinely jumped them at less than that distance while gathering cattle early in the morning during branding season.

[spurrit]

Lastly, I think powder fouling looks good on any gun. It personifies and lends character to an otherwise lifeless object. We should all try to get powder fouling on our guns more often.

Paul

Paul,

My stainless Vaquero looks so nasty after a couple hundred rounds that I just call it my Dirty Girl. Unless I keep hitting to the left. Then, it's Dirty Bi..... well, you get it. :Fire:

[ebner glocken]

I have some 44s with some personal prefrences. Several years ago I bought a ruger bisley that would shoot bewteen 2-3' groups @ 25 yards. Yes, that's two to three FEET not a typo. It went back to ruger, now off bags it will put 6 in one hole @ 25yd. The grips are stock and fit my large hands well.

On the other hand I have some model 29s. Three of them have recessed cylinders and pinned barrels, one of them 4" the other two 6 1/2". Stock grips on those. The 4th is a 629 6 1/2" with a houge monogrip. From what I can tell the older ones don't shoot any better than the 629 although I do like them better. The hogue takes the bite out of it and fits my hand pretty well.

As far as what I would recommend to someone bewteen the smith and ruger......the smith is better balenced and the ruger is tougher. Take your pick both are good.

[Cayoot]

I bought a 4 inch S&W M-29 Mountain Gun recently, which I really like. It accompanies me when I'm out in the spring (when bears are emerging from their winter dens and their cubs are moving about). However, lately a friend let me shoot his Super Blackhawk 5.5 inch SS gun...WOW!!!! I think it will be the perfect walking around during deer season gun! I have several Blackhawks and I have big hands. I don't like the feel of the small Ruger grip, so I always replace them with pachmeyer grips which fill my hand comfortably and soak up the guns "buck".

I am now saving up for that model and would strongly recommend that you check it out!

[Dale53]

Double Post, sorry.

Dale53