Success casting 45-70 Boolits?

[OldBuckstalker1187]

Has anyone had any success casting 45-70 boolits? I'm not talking about boolits for just plinking around and shooting very mild loads, Im talking about a casting that can handle loads for whitetail deer and perhaps black bear. When should you know where to draw the line on how well your cast boolits will perfom? Has anyone had any success with certain ratio's of lead/ tin/ and antimony for the big magnum charges that are pushing boolits out at greater velocities? Are cast boolits ( in general ) not considered a performing projectile regardless of the ratio of materials used?

The only reason I ask is because I will not really be doing alot of plinking with my 45-70. I would like to be able to cast boolits for it that will be accurate and very effective on deer and possibly black bear. I also want to cast for my 30-30 also. I wish to hunt with both. Am I just chasing rainbows here or can you cast good ( hunting ) boolits for the 45-70 and 30-30 or should I stick with jacketed bullets for both these guns? I dont mean to sound like an idiot, but Im just starting out, any input is very appreciated, thank you and God bless.

[BABore]

A big Yes to all.

All of my Marlin 45-70's will shoot cast better and faster than jacketed. It's easy to load mild to wild. WW alloy or better yet, an alloy of 50/50 WW'Pb water dropped is perfect for full velocity loads and the game you mention. For powders, Reloder 7, H322, Benchmark, IMR 3031, IMR 8208, H335, and 4895 are all great for full-house loads. I carry 11 different boolit designs, from 300 to 530 grain, that are designed for leverguns. A gas checked boolit would be the best bet if you want to easily get full velocity.

[OldBuckstalker1187]

Thanks BABore, you have set my mind at ease.
You only use the water dropped method for the 50/50 mix, or can you harden them other ways too? Also, I might be getting my hands on some linotype soon, is there any good recipes using linotype for the 45-70 and 30-30 that will perform the same as the 50/50 mix? Again thank you very much.

[45r]

I got Babore's 420GC mold and they shoot very well in my XLR or Win highwall.I use 5744 for low recoil and H-322 or Vit-133 for hunting loads and all will shoot at least as good as J-word boolits.I've got 5 other 45-70 molds and they shoot well also.I like Babores the most since it drops 3 at a time and very few if any rejects,especially when I ladle cast.45-70's are usually easy to get good results with cast boolits.My XLR will put 5 shots into a ragged hole at 60 yards using 48.0 grains H-322 with the 420GC's even with AC WW.That load while not top end will harvest anything on earth with a good shot.

[mattbowen]

Oldbuck;

I cast 138 in the last two days (lees 458405 HBFP mold) and plan on hunting white tail with them the last of the month, I want to load them at about 1500, 1600fps since I wont be going over 100yds and feel very comfortable with that combo. I truly feel that boolit placement is the most impotent factor and a 405gr flat point into the neck of an old swamp cow and I guarantee the only place she is going is down.

[OldBuckstalker1187]

Thanks 45r and Mattbowen , I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge from all you guys.

[onesonek]

"Has anyone had any success casting 45-70 boolits? I'm not talking about boolits for just plinking around and shooting very mild loads, Im talking about a casting that can handle loads for whitetail deer and perhaps black bear."

The .45-70 (and many others) was taking game with cast boolits, long before jacketed bullets came along.


When should you know where to draw the line on how well your cast boolits will perfom?

A .45 cal don't really need to expand any if at all, into the classical mushroom of the jacketed types to perform well. How well or accurate your firearm handles a particular cast boolit/load, and your personal shooting skills are more the limiting factors.

"Has anyone had any success with certain ratio's of lead/ tin/ and antimony for the big magnum charges that are pushing boolits out at greater velocities?"

You put 10 caster's in a room, and you're likely to get 10 different answers or preference's to that.


Are cast boolits ( in general ) not considered a performing projectile regardless of the ratio of materials used?

Cast boolits generally are not speed demons, weight and penetration is the key with most. Put a good cast boolit where it needs to be, and the animal will be in your freezer. Don't know what more performance is needed. Dead is dead!

[fredj338]

I have finally found a bullet mold/alloy/lube combo that gives me decent accuracy in my Marlin gg @ hunting vel of 1600-1700fps. It does seem to take some experimenting when you get passed plinking vel of 1300-1400fps or so, at least IME.

[twotrees]

Marlin 1895 Lee FNPB 347 gr with High 40's grs of 3031, 70 yards through the neck. 3 Vertebrae thrown down through the woods. (Do you know how hard it is to drag a 7 point buck with no neck bones?).

Uberti Hi wall 65 gr 2 FG with a smokeless kicker, neck sized cases, card board wad and a felt wad soaked in bore butter under a Lee 500 r2 boolit. 2 out of 3 hits on the Creedmore buff at 1000 meters. (Would have been 3 out of 3 if I had returned the staff to full up-right, before the second shot.)

Hunting boolit air cooled lyman #2 alloy. BP bullet 20-1 lead tin, air cooled.

Whats not to like??

[btroj]

It is pretty easy actually. Make the bullets just hard enough for the velocity you want and let em rip.
A bear and 3 deer have not had problems with them so far.
Don't over think the difference between plinking bullets and hunting bullets. They are frequently the same, especially in 45-70. I use the same bullets for both, just the powder and charge is different.

[BoolitBill]

I don't think I have ever shot a jacketed bullet out of any of my 45-70s. That caliber seems to excel with cast boolits. I too like the 50/50 WW-Pb mix but I air cool mine. I usually keep the velocity down to 1300 to 1400 fps and it does the job on deer and feral hogs. I have much better results casting the larger boolits using a ladle rather than bottom pour. My favorite mold is BABore's 462-420 GC, I think it will kill anything on this planet. I think 45r and I seem to think alike.

[Dave B]

I can't imagine any 45-70 load that wouldn't kill a deer on the spot.

[BABore]

Thanks BABore, you have set my mind at ease.
You only use the water dropped method for the 50/50 mix, or can you harden them other ways too? Also, I might be getting my hands on some linotype soon, is there any good recipes using linotype for the 45-70 and 30-30 that will perform the same as the 50/50 mix? Again thank you very much.

I water drop the 50/50 alloy at a certain pot and mold temperature and well as at a specific point in the sprue solidification stage. The results are a boolit with a 22 bhn exterior and a progressively softer core. I have also duplicated it by oven heat treatment and compared expansion to verify it. The whole reasoning for doing this is to have a boolit that is hard enough for full velocity, yet allow it to expand and mushroom. This alloy has just enough antimony and arsenic present to do the job. Linotype has the same approximate 22 bhn hardness, but it will not expand at all and possibly even shatter it you hit big enough bones. It not always about hardness. Toughness is a better path to follow especially when you try for high velocity. A lead/tin mix can also be made to work up to a certain velocity level and hardness. The problem is when you get above that point. The boolit, being the same hardness all the way through, starts to mess with the expansion that I desire.

[Rick459]

the .45/70 with a 405 grain moving along at it's orignal velocity(1350-1400fps) will kill any game in north america as long as you do your part.
Rick

[BABore]

Our ancestors were also quite fond of sharp rocks, fired hardened sticks, and the ocassional cliff to kill mastodons. Things change. I've heard alot of people claim they need to put an egg under the gas pedal of their car, but have never seen anyone that actually did it to limit their performance either.

[mpmarty]

I just broke down and put a scope on my Marlin 95. WOW! What a difference. A tad more weight and I get my face up off the stock too. Accuracy is good to wonderful depending on how much coffee I've had.

[excess650]

I don't know what 45-70 you're planning on using, but if its a modern action, the limiting factor on velocity may well be your ability to handle recoil. For sure, cast can be driven as fast as jacketed from either of these calibers. You'll need harder alloy for 2Kfps+ velocity from the 30-30 due to its quicker rifling twist. Most 45-70s are 1-18" to 1-22", so can use softer bullets. Lino is harder than needed for either, but can be used as an "enrichment alloy".

[Dframe]

I can't imagine any 45-70 load that wouldn't kill a deer on the spot.
My thoughts exactly. "Plinkin Loads?" Are you kidding me? A 400+ grain bullet at 1200-1400fps will take out any deer in the country. And if it WON'T you need a LOT bigger gun.

[WHITETAIL]

I recomend two boolits for you to try out.
The 330gr Gould boolit from Lyman.
And the 405 gr. gc. boolit from RCBS.:cbpour:

[stubert]

I have the rcbs 405gc and I had it hollow pointed a few months ago. I havn't been able to harvest anything with it yet, 50 grains of 322 is my load in my Marlin GG.

[cajun shooter]

A lot of what has been posted is true and some I feel not so. You don't have to have "HOT ROD" LOADS in a 45-70 to kill any animal on this piece of terra firma we call North America. I have found that if you laddle pour such as from a Wagge pot your bullets will be better in every department. By that I mean weight, size and mold fill out. I shoot 100% BP so a 20-1 alloy will do fine. You don't have to water drop when you are casting bullets that are 400 grs and above. I don't care to shoot the light weight bullets in this caliber.

[1Shirt]

Like BA's responses. Have I think 6 molds for 45-70, and they all shoot from my #1 very well. The most recent fun load that I am playing with is the 350 lee PB, over 14 gr. of Trail Boss. A one ragged hole at 25, and just a slightly larger ragged one holer at 50. Probably not running much over 1100 or so. Really like the old 330 gr. Gould over 22-24 gr. of 2400 with dac fill. My 405 Ohas is a very accurate blt as is the 500 plus postal. 45-70's are just plain fun guns, and to me shooting jacketed in them is just a waste of money.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[jlchucker]

ALL of my 405 gr molds cast bullets that shoot well out of my Marlin. I agree with Cajun Shooter when he says that you don't need to Hot Rod 45-70 loads. I don't think that game animals have evolved since the 1870's to a point where a 405 grain bullet at around 1400 fps is incapable of making a killing shot on any deer walking the woods.

[EMC45]

I shoot a Handi in 45-70 with a 405gr. bullet. They cast and shoot just fine. Killed 2 deer with 14.5gr. Unique (no filler) under one of them. Have run them from plinker to painful. 45-70 shoots cast well.

[bigted]

wonder what cartridge it was that started the bufflo slaughter? thats the largest roaming animal in the us/america. put a 500gr boolit even at slowwwww velocity in the shoulders of ANYTHING and the only thing you will have to do is count the steps till fall down time. mostly DRT!![ dead rite there]

[ghh3rd]

50 grains of 322

stubert - how's that load work for you. I picked up a LB of H322 and was thinking of trying that load for my 405gr and 420gr boolits with my 1885GBL.

Randy