Model of 1917??

[leadhead]

Anyone shoot cast in the 1917? I just aquired a beauitful Winchester 1917
and have been shooting some lead thru it. I can't seem to find the right dia.
boolit for it. The bore slugs at .309 and when I try .310, I got a lot leading
at the muzzle. Tried .308 dia. today and it was much better. It put 5 rds
into 1/2 inch at 25 yds. I thought that was impressive. When I moved out to
50 yds, groups were about 2 inches but impact was 3'' to the left.
Load was 18 grs of 2400. Any ideas?
Thanks
Denny

[oksmle]

Leadhead .... I fired the smallest 100 yard 10 shot group (with a military rifle) I've ever fired with cast bullets of 0.778" with my Model 1917. I cast a Lyman #311332 out of WW to match the throat of the rifle which is .311". 19.5 grains of SR4759 with Hornady gas checks. The Remington cases were turned, reamed & prepped & the barrel was fire lapped.

You didn't state the bullet, alloy & other particulars that are important.

oksmle

[leadhead]

The bullet was a RCBS 165 gr sil. cast from wheel weights and water qunched.
The bore on this rifle is mint condition.
Denny

[Bob S]

Denny:

If you have a M1917 barrel that "slugs 309", you must have a WW II two-groove barrel. The original specs were .300 bore, and groove depth of .005", making the "nominal" groove diamater of the original 5-groove barrels .310, and I have never found one "tighter" than that; most are .3105-.311. Measuring a slug from a five-groove can be a trying exercise unlkess you have the Vee blocks set up for the measurement like O.H. McKagen.

My M1917 Eddystone with original 5-groove barrel in excellent condition shoots nice little groups with 311291 or 314299, both sized .312; and with the Hornady .3105" 174 grain FMJBT, allegedly for the .303 Brit, but laughably too small for barrels chambered for that cartridge.

I have a loose new Johnson Automatics M1917 spare barrel from WW II; I have never slugged it, but the grooves appear to be very, very shallow. When I get around to installing it on a project rifle, I expect to have some difficulty with cast in that one.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[leadhead]

Bob S
This rifle is all original with a 10-17 dated barrel.
I probably screwed up the measureing of the bore, as your right, the 5 groove
is a real trick to mike.
So what your saying is, I should be going with a .312 dia. ?
What was your powder and charge?
Thanks,
Denny

[Bob S]

Bob S
So what your saying is, I should be going with a .312 dia. ?
What was your powder and charge?
Thanks,
Denny


Denny:

Well, they are all different, and what works for me may not work for you, but here's what I have used.

314299, lino, .312, Alox & BW lube, Hornady check, 42 grains of IMR 4350, Dacron over the powder, Federal primers. At 100 yards, SR-1 target, service sight elev 600 is too low, 700 is too high. 650 would be perfect, but of course the service sight only adjusts to even 100's.

311291, "old" WW, air-dropped, new mould (circa 1996, as opposed to my 1968 edition), .312, Alox & BW lube, Ideal check, 15 grains of 2400, no Dacron, Fed primers. At 100 yards, the service sight elev 800 puts these at 12:00 in the nine/ten ring.

I also found in my notebook a target fired with 311332, lino, sized .310 for another rifle, with the 15 grains of 2400 that did almost as well as the 314299. Service sight elev of 800 put these high. They were also "rejected" bullets!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/M1917/M1917_311332.jpg


All of these will shoot 5-shot prone groups of 2" (100 yards) or better shooting prone.

For comparison, Lake City M72 Match, Lot #12253 groups a little over 2" at 100 yards. That was my "control" .

The real winner is the Hornady .3105 174 grain FMJBT with 42 grains of surplus 4895 will shoot little knots that approach the magic inch.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/M1917/M1917_group.jpg

Hope this helps.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[David R]

If you are getting leading at the muzzle, then your lube is failing. Try a different lube. I have a winchester 1917. It shoots 311291 with 13.5 grains of Red Dot quite well. Mine is a 2 groove.

I size at .310. Sized .308, I get small sub groups and some wild fliers. maybe I should try .309.

David

[leadhead]

OK, Thanks guys.
I'll give that info a try.
Denny

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'm real fond of the M17s. I have two remingtons, 1 x standard and 1x with an old Parker (pre Parker and Hale) target sight which uses the standard foresight. I also have 2x Eddys which have been converted to target 308s, but I'm always on the lookout for a Winchester, I have never seen many and I have never seena standard one. Mick.

[fourarmed]

I have a Remington with the JA 2-groove, and it shoots fair with everything, but I have yet to get bragging groups with anything. The best so far has been with the 311644 lubed with FWFL and the nose dipped in LLA.

[Buckshot]

...............My M1917 is a Remington and I've just begun to seriously load for it. It has the 5 groove bbl and a 311284 stuck in the muzzle is a real tight fit. I do not know what the standard throat/leade looks like on one of these, but from what I've seen on this one, it's short! Of course I may be jaded by the loooooong ones in some military 7mm, 8mm, and the 7.62x54R's in a few M91-30's :-)

The other day I lubesized 100 of the GB 311407 (modified) boolits to .310". I seated one in a test case and slowly chambered it in the rifle. As I closed the bolt I could feel the drive bands go bump, bump, bump, bump as the boolit was pushed back into the case. When I extracted it the GC was just below the neck- shoulder, the nose was engraved and it was obvious that the throat had also marked the OD of the boolit.

I loaded 50 of'em to that length and applied a taper crimp. I used 22.0grs of surp SR4759 loose in the case. Shooting them Tuesday was a bit disappointing. While I found no leading later when I cleaned to check, at the range I was getting 50 yard 5 shot groups of about 2".

I need to resize the next rounds to .309" also as the palm of my hand was begging for mercy. I really had to slam the bolt (sometimes 2-3 times) to get it to close. I also may need to place a paper shim under the barrel at the tip of the forearm, as the barrel is completely floated. The trigger is matchgrade for the run of the mill "Army" rifle tho', so that isn't a problem.

...............Buckshot

[leadhead]

Buckshot,
I have a Remington 1917 also, but I haven't played with it to much yet, but
I think there going to be alot of fun once we figure them out.
My buddy just picked up a P-14 in .303 and man will that puppy put them in
there. Was using the 314299 sized to .312 with 16.5 grs of 2400. What a pleasure to shoot. I'm starting to think that both these guns could almost
use the same boolits.
Denny

[NVcurmudgeon]

leadhead, using one boolit for two rifles is a good thought if the boolit is 314299.
Currently I use 314299 sized .310" in an NRA Springfield sporter and a Krag carbine, sized .312" in an 1891 Argentine Mauser, and sized .314" in a No. 4 enfield. All shoot between very good and scary accurate.