In praise of 2400

[KirkD]

Boys, I have been shooting cast bullets for about 10 years now in a wide variety of formerly black powder calibers and with a wide variety of smokeless powders. I try to find an accurate smokeless load that gives the same ballistics as the original black powder loads gave, while not exceeding the peak pressure of black powder for those same ballistics. This means I use 2400 and slower powders. The ones I've used are 2400, IMR 4227, 5744, IMR SR4759, RL 7, IMR 4198, IMR 3031 and IMR 4895. The black powder calibers I've used are 25-20, 32-20, 38-40, 44-40, 38-55, 45-60, 45-70, 45-90, 44 Russian and 45 Schofield.

For each cartridge I've tried a variety of powders, but in general, the powder that keeps coming out on top is 2400 for accuracy with plain base boolits. Gas check bullets are a lot more forgiving and I find I can get good accuracy with a larger variety of powders, but plain base, more often than not, likes 2400. My theory is that of all the powders I listed above, it gives the sharpest and highest pressure spike, and a pressure spike and curve that is virtually identical to FFg. Thus, it is more successful than slower powders at bumping up (obturating) the bullet to seal the throat.

All this is for plain base boolets at original BP velocities. For steamier loads that mimic Winchester's original HV loads, I'll tend to go a bit slower, using maybe SR4759 or 5744. I've not been impressed at all with IMR 4227 in larger cases; measuring over my chronograph, it is very position sensitive (like about 120 fps in my 45-60) between 'up' and 'down'.

The down side of 2400 is that it seems to be temperature sensitive. I've noticed a marked decrease in velocity over my chrony in cold weather. I compensate for this by loading slightly up for colder weather so that I can maintain my desired velocity.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw this out there for interest sake.

[btroj]

2400 is my favorite powder for any reduced power loads with cast boolits in rifle cartridges. I like it for 30-30, 45-70, 308, 30-06. You name it, it will work.
I have not noticed the temp sensitivity but I also rarely use the chrono in cold weather. When it is cold I want to shoot then gt someplace warm. Messing with e chrono is not my idea of fun on a 35 degree day.

[JDFuchs]

Ive just got my first can of 2400 and have only tried a 30-06 load for it so far. I was wanting to try it in 357, but all the load data Ive seen has been using magnum primers. I was wondering if their are ignition problems with it or if i would be fine using stranded primers with 2400 all the time?

[KirkD]

I tend to think that 2400 is a bit fast for the 30-30, the 308 and the 30-06, at least for the obtaining of factory velocities. For those bottle neck cartridges, that were never black powder cartridges, I use slower powders. For my 30-30 I use IMR 3031 or RL-7 under a cast gas check boolit.

[Hanzerik]

I also like 2400 in my .44Mag loads.

[shooting on a shoestring]

JDF....2400 does NOT need mag primers in .357, or any other caliber. There is some data out there generated with mag primers, but not out of necessity. I've burned mulitple pounds of 2400 through .38s, .357s, .45Colt and 30/30s...using standard pistol primers. There are not any ignition problems with 2400. Its much easier to ignite than the ball powders.

[357Mag]

Kirk -

Howdy !

I've always reached for 2400 for .44Mag, but...
for .357Mag.... I've gone w/ WW296 as #1 choice; and have a nice low-dose
IMR4756 load as choice #2.

Once read a test by a dude that shot a 240gr cast .44Mag load w/ 22gr 2400 through a large plastic bag ( LARGE ). His intent... to sort-out, collect, and re-weigh any un-burnt kernels. The tester reported that 2grs went unburnt !

Now...... I wish I could remember the barrel length !?! 4" I'd think.

Regards,
357Mag

[btroj]

Kirk- I am not looking for factory velocity in any bottleneck case with 2400. I use it because it works well with cast at velocities in the 1300 to 1700 fps range.
If I want more velocity I go to slower powders like you mentioned. I just rarely shoot at that type of velocity with cast. See no need for it and it only uses more powder.

[jh45gun]

I use 2400 for most of my cast bullet loads even 45/70. 24 grains of it with a 405 grain bullet was good enough to drop a doe at 193 yards. Works great in my 30/30 too with 17 grains and a 170 to 180 grain bullet. When I had a 308 barrel for my Encore 20 grains with the same bullets used in the 30/30 dropped a doe and a 5 point buck. I use 2400 pretty much for most of my cast bullet reloads except I use Unique for my 45 Colt loads and I use Unique for my shotgun loads. I even use 2400 for my 1/2 oz 410 loads.

[Char-Gar]

The December issue of The American Rifleman carried an article by Townsend Whelen entitled "The 30-06 Is Never A Mistake.

The same can be said for 2400 as a cast bullet powder. 2400 is never a mistake. (In rifles with case capacity from 30-30 to 30-06)

[KirkD]

Kirk- I am not looking for factory velocity in any bottleneck case with 2400. I use it because it works well with cast at velocities in the 1300 to 1700 fps range.
If I want more velocity I go to slower powders like you mentioned. I just rarely shoot at that type of velocity with cast. See no need for it and it only uses more powder.
It looks like 2400 is even more versatile than I had though, judging from your experience and others who have posted on this thread.

[btroj]

Give 2400 a shot. I don't think you will be disappointed. It is easily my most used powder for cast in any rifle cartridge. It just plain works.

[44magLeo]

KirkD, you are getting a large variation in velocity with 4227 in large straight cases. Have you tried an overpowder card or a bit of Capok to hold the powder in place?
This will help light the powder more consistantly. More consistant ignition will give more consistant velocity.

[MGySgt]

Unburnt powder in 2400 loads - what I have noticed in that situation is that you have passed the max charge for accuracy with 2400. when I start getting unburnt powder while working up a load, I stop and go down a few 10's and work around there.

2400 will give you great accuracy but not top end velocity. If you want more velocity go whith H110 or W 296,

Just my 2 cents worth.

Oh yea - LP only not LPM - I get more unburnt powder in LPM than LP loads.

[reloader28]

I aint used much of it.
Some in 357 and 44.
Tried about 14.5gr in my brothers 243 and it shot a ragged hole at 50yds.
I do like it enough that I'm planning on buying a keg of it the next time I get some money and using it alot more.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Unburnt powder in 2400 loads - what I have noticed in that situation is that you have passed the max charge for accuracy with 2400. when I start getting unburnt powder while working up a load, I stop and go down a few 10's and work around there.
2400 will give you great accuracy but not top end velocity. If you want more velocity go whith H110 or W 296,

Just my 2 cents worth.

Oh yea - LP only not LPM - I get more unburnt powder in LPM than LP loads.

BRILLIANT!! Everyone please re-read this!

Myself, I like the "ideal" level 2400 load. No, it won't be as fast as H-110/W296, but it will still be "fast-enough." I just can't imagine, for my needs, where the same bullet at 1450fps is any more-better than at 1200-1250fps. And if I get better accuracy and less blast, flash, and recoil, I'm really happy!

Oh, and BTW, after resistance, I bent and tried 2400 in 30-06 with Harris' "The Load" and I'm already liking it. It flowed through the powder measure (Lyman 55) better than any of my ball powders...

[jh45gun]

BRILLIANT!! Everyone please re-read this!

Myself, I like the "ideal" level 2400 load. No, it won't be as fast as H-110/W296, but it will still be "fast-enough." I just can't imagine, for my needs, where the same bullet at 1450fps is any more-better than at 1200-1250fps. And if I get better accuracy and less blast, flash, and recoil, I'm really happy!

Oh, and BTW, after resistance, I bent and tried 2400 in 30-06 with Harris' "The Load" and I'm already liking it. It flowed through the powder measure (Lyman 55) better than any of my ball powders...


After reading that article I load 20 grains of 2400 for a heavier load and it shoots great in my gun. I used the same 20 grains in a 308 and my K31 when I had them.

[ambergrifleman]

2400 is a "Great" Cast Bullet Launch Powder. I have used it almost all the Time for 19 years.

[Old Ironsights]

I use 2400 for everything I load cast in. I have kegs of the stuff.

.38/.357, 9.3x72R, 45-70 all works beauty with relatively low volumes (frugality saves powder...)

Going to be interesting to try it in .308 (lever)

[EMC45]

2400 is a great powder. I use 20gr. in .44MAG in my SBH and 94 Marlin. Works great!

[DanWalker]

2400 has worked great for me in everything I have tried it in, from 357 (9.5 grains) to 45 Colt (18.5 grains) to 7mm08(16 grains) to 45/70 (25 grains)
LOVE that stuff!!!!

[The Shootist]

I use 18.0 gr of 2400 with the 311041 boolit in my .30 WCF Model 94.
Works very well. :cbpour:

[mattbowen]

Dan;

this may be a stupid question but is the 18.5 grs of 2400 safe to use in a colt clone? The reason I ask is because I have a Rossi m92 in 45LC and will (sooner or later) be getting a pistol in that caliber and would like to use the same load in both. At the present I am using (I believe, I don't have my load book with me) 16.2 grs of 2400 out of my Rossi.

Thanks

Matt

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have used it almost exclusively in the 44Mag and it is really good. 296 is pretty cool and more easily found in Australia.

My friend showed me some interesting targets the other day, using the Ranch Dog 165Gn 30 cal, he got better performance and accuracy in the 30/30 over the 3006 using 2400. Go figure.

[DanWalker]

Dan;

this may be a stupid question but is the 18.5 grs of 2400 safe to use in a colt clone? The reason I ask is because I have a Rossi m92 in 45LC and will (sooner or later) be getting a pistol in that caliber and would like to use the same load in both. At the present I am using (I believe, I don't have my load book with me) 16.2 grs of 2400 out of my Rossi.

Thanks

Matt

Matt.
Paco Kelly told me years ago that it was safe for colts and clones. I tried it in a 3rd Gen SAA and it was fine.

[mattbowen]

Gentlemen;

I thank you for your response I do believe I will try out the 17.5 to 18.5 of the fine 2400 and see just how it will do, but I think I am going to have to cast another hundred or so boolits before I do.

Thanks again

Matt

[1Shirt]

My favorite cast powder for rifle and handgun. It is tough to beat!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[starmac]

Has anyone used it in 45 acp, none of my books shows it for the acp round.

[Ben]

I just purchased 16 lbs. of 2400, do you think I like 2400 ? ?

[MGySgt]

Has anyone used it in 45 acp, none of my books shows it for the acp round.

According to quick load it will work. Never tried it though

[truckmsl]

My favorite powder for cast in 7.62x39.

[Catshooter]

Kirkd,

I have never noticed 2400 being cold sensitive. Maybe you could define your idea of "cold"?

Here in southern Florida it was cold today, about 55 degrees so maybe yours is colder? :)


Cat

[starmac]

LOL We warmed up today, it is only 15 below. 55 is perfect weather.

[mustanggt]

I use 2400 in three Ruger 44 mags. 1 Ruger 357 and a S&W M27, 03A3, one Marlin 1894. Does alright by me.

[ironhead7544]

For me, WW296 has worked best in the 44 Mag with IMR4227 a very close second. For fast loads in the 44 Special and 45 Colt the 2400 has been best. I think 2400 and IMR4227 was designed for the 44-40 sized rifle cartridges. Seems to burn very clean there but leaves some residue in a handgun barrel.

[mattbowen]

Dan;

what bullet do you use in your 45-70? I am running 405 and 340 grainers at the present.

[btroj]

Dan;

what bullet do you use in your 45-70? I am running 405 and 340 grainers at the present.

Not Dan but I have very good luck with 24gr of 2400 with 405 gr bullets in my Marlin. I have used it some with the 350gr but not enough to have a real good feel for it.

I do not use a filler and use a standard primer. This is my go to load for plinking with the 45-70 and for getting myself ready for hunting.

There is little I don't use 2400 in. It is the powder I go to for any rifle loads with cast.

[KirkD]

Kirkd,

I have never noticed 2400 being cold sensitive. Maybe you could define your idea of "cold"?

Here in southern Florida it was cold today, about 55 degrees so maybe yours is colder? :)


Cat
heh, heh ..... 55 degrees? That's not cold. I notice that if the temperature is below freezing, then I get lower velocities. Right now it is 3 degrees below zero Farenheit. I plan to go shooting on Thursday, when it is supposed to warm up to only a few degrees below freezing.

[btroj]

55 degrees? Cold? Heck, I wait for days in the upper 20's and no wind and feel lucky to have them in the winter. Bet you wore your long johns today too!

[mattbowen]

btroj;

Thanks, I should have said before that I am shooting two types of 45-70 the first is my handi rifle and the second is my Pedersoli Sharps, and I read that on the trapdoor loads that 16 grains is about the max. I can't find anything in any of my load manuals about 2400. I did load up some 2400 this weekend with 24.8 grns. and liked the groups with little recoil but after reading the post this morning I worry about the pressure.

Thanks again

Matt

[btroj]

I have not gone as low as 16 gr. Can't help you there.

[Old Ironsights]

For the .45-70 I shoot 21.6gr (1.6 dipper) under a 457122/Gould for aprox 1300fps @ about 15000cup as my GP load. No filler.

[mattbowen]

btroj;

Thanks for the reply.

Old Ironside;

Thank you too, if you are using 21.6grs and the cup is around 15000 then I should be ok with what I am using. If I remember the recommended psi for the Ped. Sharps is about 26000
Thanks again

Matt

[Old Ironsights]

btroj;

Thanks for the reply.

Old Ironside;

Thank you too, if you are using 21.6grs and the cup is around 15000 then I should be ok with what I am using. If I remember the recommended psi for the Ped. Sharps is about 26000
Thanks again

Matt

That's a GUESS mind you. Lyman 47 puts 21gr at 14,200cup under that bullet at 1293 fps.

L 47 also maxes the 457122 (only boolit I shoot) at 28gr for 1640fps @ 25,000cup.

Lyman also suggests polyester wad/filler. I don't use it, but there you are.

If you are running the 405 JSP, L47 gives 1873 Trapdoor Load data @ 22 to 27gr of 2400.

If by 405 you still mean a #2 457643 Cast Boolit or similar, L47 gives 21gr to 24.6gr under polyester... but the 24.6gr load generates 26,300cup under the 457643 400gr cast, so watch it...

[mattbowen]

Old Ironside;

Thanks for the info I will do that, I am using a 459-405-HBFP so I will check the specs for the rifle again and if I have to I will only use this load in my handi.

Thanks again

Matt

(Up-date)

Old Ironside;

Doing a little research I found that the max CPU to stay within is 29000cpu so I should be with-in the limits.

Thanks again

Matt

[KirkD]

My current 45-70 load is 22 grains of 2400 under a 405 grain cast boolit (don't know the mould, as I got these bullets from another fellow) for 1,323 fps at about 38 degrees F. I shoot this in my original Winchester 1886 made in 1890 (black powder version).

[Old Shooter]

Skeeter Skelton did most of his reloading using only 2400 and Unique, two powders that still do quite well. Most of us could survive just fine using two these powders in most handgun loads.

[mattbowen]

KiekD;

Thanks! I feel sure That I am on the right tract, there is one thing about my Sharps tho and that is it seems that it likes slower moving boolits. If I start getting up around 1500 / 1600fps I can see the groups open up, with my trail-boss loads I can hit about 1-1/4" at 100 (that load is running about 1200fps). With the 2400 running about 1500fps the group is about 2" at 100, so me thinkith that reducing to 22gr. may be the ticket.

Old Shooter;

Thanks for the reply, the more I use 2400 the more I like it.


Matt

[DanWalker]

Yeah, it's my go to powder for magnum level pistol loads, and cast rifle loads.
I've got an 03' springfield that a buddy loaned me to get sorted out.
Just noticed I'm down to only 2lbs of 2400. Time to head to the gun shop!

[mattbowen]

Dan;

All I can say is the more I use it the more I like it.

[Catshooter]

Skeeter Skelton did most of his reloading using only 2400 and Unique, two powders that still do quite well. Most of us could survive just fine using two these powders in most handgun loads and rifle loads.

I agree. I use Universal Clays in place of Unique but they are very similar.


Cat

[texasjake]

I have been using 24.5 grains of 2400 with a 300 grains CB in my 45-60. I use a standard primer with no filler. It seems to be in the 1400 fps range. No pressure signs.

[leadman]

I agree 2400 is a great powder.

Alliant lists 20grs with the 250gr Keith boolet with a CCI300 (standard) primer. For the folks that might want to try the 24gr load listed earlier.

[robertbank]

As some know I am pretty inept when it comes to shooting tight groups out of anything but that said my Husquavarna Husky 30-06, recently sold to my son. is an outstanding shooter.

My one and lonly claim to fame (within the family) is I shot a .483" group of three at 100 yards using 20 gr of 2400 under a 311291 Lyman cast from WW then water quenched. The scary part was the gun would do that all day long with this load. I am about to pick up a ,44 Mag Rossi so the quest for an accurate bullet/powder charge will include 2400.

Take Care

Bob

[dunkel]

I'm glad to read all this stuff about 2400. It's the first powder I bought when I started loading .357. Now that I'm about to expand into .30-30, it looks like I don't need to stock another powder just yet. Ultimately, I hope to get into .45-70 and looks like I should still be good to go.

[KirkD]

I have been using 24.5 grains of 2400 with a 300 grains CB in my 45-60. I use a standard primer with no filler. It seems to be in the 1400 fps range. No pressure signs.
Texasjake, I'm feeling a bit nervous about that there load of yours. Is that for an original '76? James Barnard has published a load using 21 grains of 2400 under a JHP for 1,300 fps. My 45-60 load for my original '76 is only 20 grains of 2400 under a 325 grain GC boolit for 1,221 fps. That is a little mild, as the original BP velocities were closer to 1,300 fps. However, 24 grains of 2400 is a lot steamier. It might be interesting to chronograph that load. I would not be surprised if it is closer to 1,500 fps. If yours is an original '76, then the pressure will exceed safety levels long before any pressure signs become visible on the case/primer.

[405]

That does seem a little warm for a 76. They are not weak, but if an old original, the metal has limitations and in any case, old or new, the basic design has limitations. Even with modern steel, I wouldn't push them- no need to. I love taking them apart and visualizing the routes of stress thru the toggles and link pins. Also, take a look at the small, flat firing pin retainer held in position by an even smaller pin. I too shoot 76 originals. The most I'll go and it is plenty at 1100 fps in the 45-75 is 21 gr 5744 under a 300 gr RCBS cast. I'd think that 24.5 gr of 2400 which is a faster powder than 5744 could produce much higher pressure spikes. For a 45 cal thumper just get a new Marlin lever in 45-70.