Want to turn your old lube-sizer into one like a Star

[Swagerman]

OK, this is just in the planning stage, no workable item has been set up...yet.

But, you can be the first if you want too. I'm getting too lazy from old age, my get up and go...got up and went a long time ago.


Have you got a Lyman No. 45, or 450 lube-sizer press, or an RCBS lube-sizer.

Then you could possibly convert it to perform like a Star lube-sizer press that takes lead cast boolits nose first, one right after the other as fast as you shove them in and crank the lube lever on top.

Yes, friends, convert that old ancient luber into a boolit gobbling lube-sizer by the following method....(hope this works) :mrgreen:

1. Make a boolit top punch that is long enough to push the boolit down far enough into the lube die. It should be long enough to push the boolit nearly all the way through.

We will use thick coller ring bushings that are hand inserted to rest on top the lube die, and the top punch can pass through the bushing to stop the bullets depth penetration to certain lube holes of different adjustments.

Some older lube dies can have unnessesary holes plugged with bird shot that will fit the holes.


2. We will have to remove the old press's bottom bullet stop, so the bullet can be eventually pushed all the through nose first like a Star Lube-sizer...get the picture???

OK, before you go scoffing this idea to oblivion, this idea is void in the entire state of Wisconsin. :mrgreen:

Jim

[dragonrider]

I have considered this idea and have yet to work around the problem of constant pressure in the lube resevoir thus causing lube to squirt out and gooing up the noses of bullets. Over come that without redesigning the lubrisizer and it might be doable. I believe it can be done and would like to be the first on my block to do it, just need the right idea.

[Swagerman]

Hmmmmm!

Aren't the old Lyman and RCBS lube presses under a certain amount of pressure at all times, much like the Star.

Its the lube die push down center shaft that keeps that pressure at bay. There is only the lube die squirt through holes that allow the lube to enter the lube die, plug some of those holes up with bird shot, problem solved???

The Star is dependent on those principals of lube holes that allow lube to only certain areas of the bullet to be lubed. It has no center die shaft that is in front of the bullet.

Now, the coller bushings are nothing more than a device to set attop the lube die, so the longer top punch can pass through at a premeasured adjustment height to placate the desired bullet being lubed.

As long as the right amount of lube holes line up with the bullets intended rings, it should be OK and the bullet can feed nose first much like the Star.

However, one would have to leave a bullet in the die until the next time you want to do some bullet lubing.

In theory, I don't see why this cannot work.

Jim

[slughammer]

The Star works on a low pressure/high pressure design.

The reservoir is low pressure and the lube holes in the die are very small; set the reservoir pressure correctly and this keeps the lube from flowing onto the boolit noses. Then at the bottom of the stroke, a small piston makes the pressure that flows the lube through the tiny holes and fills the lube grooves.

Perhaps the push through idea would work on the 450 if the lube reservoir pressure was cycled high then low.

[Swagerman]

My Lyman No. 45 and 450 lube presses, will pretty much respond to how much I crank the press's top lever rhachet...thus, maintaining a fairly constant pressure of lube movement.

Just don't crank in too much pressure, only enough to squirt each bullet as it goes through, usually only have to crank the rhachet lever about 1/4 of an inch to maintian good lube movement using the press in normal mode.

I may get into this further during the long winter white-out we have up north. But was hoping someone else would tackle it first -- I know, I'm a lazy good for nothing.

Jim

[David R]

Sounds like a good idea. You could crank lube, then back it off. Push in the next boolit, crank it up then back it off. That would work, but take longer than the conventional method. Its a good idea, my next purchase will be a STAR. If you could make some kind of cam or over center thing for the lube pressure, you would be home free. You have me thinking about it.

David

[dragonrider]

See, the wheels are turning. Something will come of this.

[Buckshot]

..............There was a thread on a new lube-size press design either on the AIMOO board or this one just after we moved here. The idea was centered around a new press which would utilize the Lyman-RCBS dies since so many were already out there in circulation. There were several other posters involved in the thread besides myself.

My idea (and maybe some others also, I don't recall now) was to use a reloading press as the basis instead of making up a stand alone type unit. Using the 2 makers existing dies would work but really wouldn't be optimum due to their length. It would require a rather long pushrod to get them clear of the lube-size die.

My idea for a die would be a simple cylinder somewhat shorter then the current dies with a radial single row of lube access holes, mid die. The dies would be cheaper then any other as they'd require no flanges and other foolish machining like the Star or Saeco. No threading and no attendant rubber 'O' ring for each one.

Lube application would be similar to the Star, or a grease gun with pressure applied via a piston, and variably timed due to the differences in boolit design. The luberisizer would require a valve to be actuated. Open as the first drive band passes the lube port in the die, and then snapped shut as the base of the boolit approches.

While the valve was open the piston would advance to apply pressure to the lube and when the valve closed the piston would retract past a port allowing lube to refill from the reservoir.

In order to preclude a lot of time consuming (expensive) close tolerance machining the cylindrical rotary valve could be carried in a Delrin like plastic body which was in turn inside a steel cylinder. Very much like a ball valve. However the valve would be a rod. Instead of a cylindical hole across it for the lube to pass through there would be a slot. A slot being somewhat narrow in height but much wider in width would open to full value much more rapidly then a circular hole. In addition, when the valve closes it exposes a port to allow any lube remianing under pressure to vent (there'd be a simple container to collect it.

The entire mechanism would have to be powered off the linier motion of the ram, which may be done by bellcranks, cams, or angled arms.

In order to make the dies as inexpensive as possible each one would be exactly the same except for it's sizing bore. So length, OD, and lube port location would be the same.

There are only 2 items for which the machine would have to be adjusted for by the operator. That would be the start of lube application (the valve opening) and the piston stroke for lube quantity, as pressure would remain the same.

Boolit design has only one thing we're interested in so far as timing for the machine goes and that is when to start. Otherwise ALL booits end at EXACTLY the same place. That is, against the face of the pushrod.

Lets pretend we have this mo-sheen actually constructed, and run through the setup senario.

You thread the die body housing down into the 1-1/4-12 threads atop the press and stops with the lube cylinder body extending to the right. We're all right handed, right :-)! Uh oh, you left a die in there from last time and it's the wrong one, so you unscrew the catcher cup nut, which also holds the die in place. Then put the die ejector rod in the slot of the ram and lower the handle. This pushes the die up out of the body.

Then you place the one you want in the body and screw the nut back down, which seats the die against the internal taper (or 'O' ring in the body) and snug it up. Then you place the actuating arm down over the ram amd raise the ram just enough to clear the shellholder slot and tighten the sockethead screw that holds the arm in place. Then you slide the right size (OD, length is ALL the same) pushrod into the shellholder slot.

Next comes the actuator rod which goes down through the guide hole in the bracket off the side of the lubepress body and threads into the arm attached to the ram. Okay the press is ready to be setup for the boolit. Let's see, I guess we'll need to lube size some 314299's. You get your calipers or a ruler that has 32nds on it and measure the length from the top drive band to the top of the GC shank.

That's 9/32", say (I don't wanna go out now and measure one :-) so it's 9/32" here). So you loosen the wingnut on the valve arm and put it in line with the 9 and tighten the wingnut. Since the valve is setup by 32nds (hey, this is fiction so it can be whatever I want) it will open when the face of the pushrod is 9/32" away.

Actually that's wrong because the length of the GC shank and thickness of the GC is in there so you'd have to fudge a bit............ on with the fiction.

You look at the wingnut's position on the lube piston's rod and it looks okay. I think we'd lube up some 250gr Keiths before and this 314299 won't need more lube, so we're set. Reach up and give the lube reservoir a couple cranks. Put a boolit on the pushrod and lower the press lever. The ram goes up and so does the actuator rod which at the right time hits the pressure piston cam compressing a spring behind the piston, and then the adjustment arm (or does something) and the valve opens and then closes 9/32" of ram movement later.

Good thing YOU remembered because I forgot to turn the lube heater on, HA!

So an hour later you have eleventy bazillion 314299's lubesized, which were caught in a container which you had to dump out a couple itmes. Miller Time.

The thing is, that fictitious valve adjustment will probably work for umpteen different boolits. Obviously NOT for a 314299 and a 311407 though :-).

................Buckshot

[Swagerman]

Holy Shemolely, who was that masked man hollering: "Miller Time!" :mrgreen:

[JBMauser]

Ah!! how about this. a gear and shutter are placed inside the lube resivour. as the lever is depressed pushing the bullet into position the shutter slides down to allow the lube to flow into the die and grooves. once the bullet passes a point the shutter springs back to block all lube from entering the casting holding the die. Pressure is nill. the lever is raised , the next pill is inserted and the on the down stoke the gear engages the shutter (collar) and pulls it down for the next squirt of lube then it springs back. there would have to be some kind of cam rod that would push the gear teeth back from the cut outs in the shutter, like the notches in old 8mm film, so it would pop back up under spring tension to create nil pressure. The lube could not be to gummy or the shutter would never budge. Oh well, that is all my gray matter can excercise until tommorow. JB

[Swagerman]

First of all, I wish to apologize for my poor picture drawing. (so I made another picture)

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/P2130003croppedcloseup650X.jpg

The coller ring looks like a good idea that would be applicable to a Star unit, might give better method of depth adjustment, but it would have to be a smaller ring for the Star unit.

This coller ring could have a hex set-screw to lock it in position.

The lube press's ram would only be able to push the bullet so far into the lube die, the lube die may require some plugging up of lube holes after you figure out how much area you want squirted.

Some of you gents have touched on high / low pressure levels between the Star lube chambers, verses the Lyman/RCBS high pressure chambers.

If that is such a problem, why don't the bullets passing through the Star leak some lube goo on the next bullet to pass through the lube die...if you've got everything adjusted right.

I've had a lot of grief with the lyman and RCBS lube presses leaking goo on the bottom of the bullet, as well as the nose, and that was using it in normal mode operation.

The coller ring pictured has an extra long nose punch coming out of the press's ram, but not too long you can't get a bullet seated.

Jim

[pjh421]

The Lyman system uses the pressure of the lube reservoir screw and plunger to move lubricant into the boolit's grease grooves. In other words, it's always on. The Star system uses a similar method to move lube to the piston but that's where the similarity ends. Unless your lube is too warm, the Star won't let the lube touch your boolits without first activating the piston that moves the lube into the boolit's grease grooves. That piston is what provides the "high pressure" they are talking about and it is activated by the operating lever at the end of it's stroke. If you short stroke the operating lever on a Star, you can size boolits without lubing them if that's what you want. If I use a soft lube on a real hot day, I get a little leakage from the Star but it's sure nothing like the leakage you get from those darned H&I sizing dies. After babysitting my Lyman 450 for about 15 years I aquired a new Star & promptly gave the Lyman to a friend who was just starting out. Sometimes you just want something that works right and MAN, that Star is it. Thinking back, that was kind of mean to give a new guy a 450...

Paul