PA-63 9mm markov

[lunicy]

I'm about to buy a 9mm markov. My question is can I use my 9mm luger dies to reload this. I know the boolit size is slightly bigger on the markov. Anyone done it?

Would a rezsize die work enough, or no?
I'm sure a seater would work
Crimp die? (I have to use a crimp die at least to straighten the walls back out. They get belled for lead insertion)

Lastly, anyone load this round? Any tricks or hints?

Thanks

[HATCH]

I can't remember who said they used 9mm dies for 9x18...

I have RCBS dies 9x18 and use a Redding Crimp die
My load is 3.6 grains of unique. It duplicates the recoil of the factory ammo.
I have loaded 3.9 grains of unique but the grouping opened up.

I load both copper plated and lead round nose 95 - 105 grain using the same load

[Three44s]

A far as I know, you need dies specific for the Makarov ..........

But it also my understanding that you can convert 9MM Para brass to your 9 mm Makarov ...... but you will have to shorten them.


I own a PA63 in Makarov but have not acquired the dies or begun shortening brass yet but I'm planning on it.

Three 44s

[Grapeshot]

I'm about to buy a 9mm markov. My question is can I use my 9mm luger dies to reload this. I know the boolit size is slightly bigger on the markov. Anyone done it?

Would a rezsize die work enough, or no?
I'm sure a seater would work
Crimp die? (I have to use a crimp die at least to straighten the walls back out. They get belled for lead insertion)

Lastly, anyone load this round? Any tricks or hints?

Thanks

The 9x18mm Makarov and the 9x19 Parabellum need separate dies to reload. I used to own a Chinese copy of the Mak and the bullet diameter is .360 inch as opposed to the .355 inch of the 9mm Parabellum/Luger. You can make 9x18 cases from 9x19 cases and fireform them after you run them through the 9x18 sizing die and reload them with the appropriate bullet, powder combination. This gives you a good brass, reloadable case to work with after your finished shooting. Just remember to sort by length later so you don't try to reload a full length 9mm Luger case in your 9x18 die set.

[9.3X62AL]

Apples and oranges. The 9 x18 Makarov is a straight-walled case of .389"-.390" diameter, while the 9 x 19 Luger is tapered from the rim (.391") to case mouth (.378").

Groove diameters vary in these pistols--from .363" to .365" in the examples I've checked out. My East German Mak runs @ .364".

I've loaded for this little beastie for almost 20 years. I trimmed off 9mm Luger casings to .705", then expanded them with the die set's expander spud. In 1992, there was no other source of casings. I bought an RCBS limited-production 100 grain RN mould, and used 380 ACP data as a start point. Best performance in the reworked cases comes with 380 data + 10%, same powders. The Mak has been A LOT more accurate than any 380 I've ever owned, on par with my best 32 ACP pistols. I no longer own a 380, but the Makarov STAYS.

[kyle623]

my PA-63 has been a good gun, but you do need 9x18 dies to reload it, and the proper bullet. 9mm para bullets won't work. lee makes a nice mold for the 9x18.

[arjacobson]

I just starting loading for my cz 82 in 9x18. I trimmed 9mm brass to .705-belled it-ran it through the mak sizing die-rebelled it-primered it and loaded. If you bell it after trimming and before sizing it will pretty much get your case straight.. Fun little round. In fact I cast 125 more bullets for mine tonight:-D

[bigdog454]

I found a .380 barrel for my pa-63 and converted it, shoots great. I would like to find another barrel and buy another pa53.
BD

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I have had both calibers in the PA 63 model. You need the 9x18 set due to the chamber differences.
If you are going to cast (the best) get a mold made for the caliber. My 9x18 is fat throated and accuracy will sufffer bad if you use undersized boolits. I think Lee still makes a good mold for this caliber.

[JIMinPHX]

I was never able to successfully load 9 x 18 Mak ammo with 9 x 19 Luger dies. The Mak boolits are around .365" rather than .355" like on a regular 9. Lee makes Mak dies. They're not that expensive.

Some of the Mak chambers & barrels run a little big. It is not uncommon to need to size to .366, .367 or even .368". You really need to slug your barrel to find out what you have. Lee makes a round nose mold that works well in that cartridge. There was also a group buy for a flat point mold in that size.

Size dies for a Mak were not a standard Item back when I started messing with that stuff. I don't know if that is still the case or not. I ended up getting a custom size die from Lee. If you are lucky, you may be able to shoot your boolits at raw size. A lot of guys get away with that.

Star Line is my preferred brass for that gun. It was on the shelf at Midway the last time that I looked, but that was a long time ago.

Those little guns are surprisingly accurate when properly loaded. Think golf balls at 10 yards, which ain't bad for a little pocket gun. They also have chromed & polished chambers & barrels which is an awfully nice feature in such an inexpensive little gun.

My one warning is do not use the 120 grain Wolf HP ammo. It is loaded too hot & will probably bend or break parts inside that gun before you finish the first magazine. I wish that I didn't know that, but I do.

[9.3X62AL]

Starting loads for the 380 ACP will just barely function my Mak. These are blowback pistols, and they operate at about the limit of blowback system capabilities. That's a nice way of saying THEIR RECOIL SPRINGS ARE FEROCIOUSLY STRONG, compared to the Walther PP-series they were obviously copied from. Lose a war, and the whole world rips ya off. Ain't THAT a bee-otch?

At max-load 380 ACP powder weights with bullets/boolits of parallel weights, the Makarov is a pretty tractable and easily-managed pistol--much more so than a PP in 380. This load range puts 95-100 grain bullets out at 875-900 FPS.

Boosting the powder weights 10% pushes the boolits/bullets out about 1025-1050 FPS. This is a substantial gain over factory 380 ACP ballistics, the 95 grain FMJ bullets from which seldom exceed 825 FPS in longer-barrelled pistols like the Beretta 84F and SIG P-230/232. In PPK models, factory fodder won't break 780 FPS. 90% of my Makarov shooting gets done with this load level. This is about 7%-10% under supposed max velocities, and these "+10% 380 loads" recoil rather sharply, which is a trait of blowback operation as its upper limits are approached.

Loads at the 380-max level and at the +10% level are quite accurate. I have run about 300 rounds total at max Makarov levels, with 95-100 grain bullets/boolits running 1090-1115 FPS. Accuracy falls off significantly, and both recoil and report become unpleasant. These velocities were reached at +13% load levels from 380 ACP max data, and I use Unique or Herco for any loads exceeding 380 ACP max listings. Small pistol primers (non-magnum) are used throughout. Mostly W-W, some CCI.

At these upper-end loadings, my pistol REALLY ejects the empties. The pistol is a great small varmint and small game harvester, and accurate enough for 40-50 yard shots if I hold up my end of the deal on little critters. It's handy to have along for arrogant jackrabbits that know full well they're out of shotgun range while I'm quail/chukar hunting. Its weight balances the shell pouch nicely, and jacks within 75 yards get killed or thrilled soundly when lit up with the Mak.

[JIMinPHX]

In PPK models, factory fodder won't break 780 FPS.

On average, my numbers were just a little higher than that, but I've found that American Eagle brand .380fmj seems to be hotter than the rest. I clocked it at 943fps average out of a PPK.

Normal factory Mak ammo clocks in at 1015-1048fps average for me, depending on brand. I usually load my cast ammo to around 900fps for comfy shooting.

[9.3X62AL]

It sounds like the AE 380 ACP ammo is loaded to European/full-value levels. Thanks for steering that this way. 900+ FPS from factory ammo in a PPK is decent as can be. I don't foresee getting back into 380 ACP, but Mrs. 9.3 is known to make Executive Decisions of her own in these venues, and I am the designated ammo supplier and refiller. One of those "I'm not consulted, I get advised" arrangements--if you get my drift.

[Treeman]

9x19 dies aren't the answer for the 9x18 Mak...........however a crossover does exist. 9x18 Mak dies are perfect for .38 S&W and vice versa

[JIMinPHX]

9x18 Mak dies are perfect for .38 S&W and vice versa

Have you actually tried that yourself? The Speer book that I have shows the .38S&W to be about .005" smaller in diameter at the case mouth. I would sort of expect that would be enough of a difference to cause neck tension problems.

That's just an expectation on my part though.

[9.3X62AL]

In many cases, a T/C sizer die for 9mm Makarov can work well for resizing the more widely-dimensioned 38 S&W revolver examples. 2 of my 38 S&W revos, a S&W M&P Lend-Lease return and a Webley-Enfield DAO both require .363" boolits, and for those revolvers the Mak sizer die and expander die work well. In a Colt Police Positive (.359" throats), the steel sizer die from the RCBS Cowboy Die set and the expander spud from that set marked ".360"" is the best route.