Annealed brass, Now no neck tension?

[thx997303]

I annealed some 45-70 brass yesterday.

After annealing I sized and expanded the cases and went to load some.

Unfortunately, the first case had no case neck tension whatsoever. Boolits just spun in the case.

So I sized and expanded the case twice more, and it SEEMS that there is slightly more case neck tension now.

I did not expect this.

I'm I right to think that the cases may well be too soft in the neck at this point?

This is 45-70 by the way.

[crabo]

What were the circumstances that caused you to believe you needed to anneal the cases?

[thx997303]

Seems after sizing and expanding the case about 5 times, I now have case neck tension.

Guess they were just too soft. :veryconfu

And the circumstances were several firings and lost case neck tension.

Consulted some trusted individuals and the consensus was they had hardened and needed annealing.

Apparently though, Now I gotta harden em.

[NuJudge]

In annealing brass in the past, I've seemed to notice that the ID of the neck was larger afterwards. The neck is softer too.

[Doc Highwall]

If you see even a glow of color when heating the cases you have heated them too much. Check out this web site on annealing. http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

[hhranch]

When I have annealed brass in the past, the process left the neck much softer with less neck tension. Particularly if you overheat the brass when you anneal it, it will be very soft. Generally it will work harden after a couple of firings, and will be back to where the neck will hold the projectile (pb or j). For the first firing or two you may need to crimp the case neck or omit the neck expanding step after sizing. The good news is that you shouldn't have any problem with the necks splitting for the next several firings.

Good luck.

[Skipper]

You don't have to fire them. Run them through a few sizing/expander cycles and they'll harden up.

[thx997303]

Disregard, sizing issue.

[buck1]

good read!

[BCB]

Now this might seem stupid, but I read some where some place some time some many years ago (that should clear me of any credibility!) that ferrous and non-ferrous metals respond oppositely to the heating and cooling processes…

Maybe you should try to heat the case neck again and then just let it cool slowly--not dump it over in water and cool it instantly?...

Can’t hurt to try it can it?...

Good-luck…BCB

[thx997303]

Yeah, it turned out I needed to full length resize after the anneal.

For some reason, neck sizing wasn't doing it.

Full length resized em and now they have neck tension.

[MtGun44]

OK, here's he straight story on brass hardness and annealing.

The ONLY way to harden brass is to deform it beyond the ability to spring back (permanent
deformation). Each time you deform it, it gets harder, until it is so hard it is brittle and
will crack the next time you deform it very much. By heating brass above a critical
temperature, you start 'erasing' the hardening that has occurred, softening it. The only
thing that does this softening is the temperature - NOT the cooling or cooling rate or
anything except how hot it got. Too hot and you take it all the way back to dead soft.

If this isn't what you wanted, and your necks are too soft, you can resize, then expand with
the ball, then resize, then expand. Each cycle hardens the neck. Any area that is soft
but is not being worked will not harden, so if the shoulder is soft, it will stay soft until fired
and expanded and then pushed back in the die. You should be able to get the neck
tension back in 2-3 cycles.

If you fully soften the case head area, which is VERY carefully worked during the manufacturing
process to give it just the right strength, you have permanently ruined the brass and it is
incapable of withstanding normal loads. So don't do that! ;-)

Bill

[44man]

Now this might seem stupid, but I read some where some place some time some many years ago (that should clear me of any credibility!) that ferrous and non-ferrous metals respond oppositely to the heating and cooling processes…

Maybe you should try to heat the case neck again and then just let it cool slowly--not dump it over in water and cool it instantly?...

Can’t hurt to try it can it?...

Good-luck…BCB
No, brass still softens to the same point.
If used in a single shot, case tension is not important but you NEED it in a revolver or lever gun. Leave the brass alone, there is no need to anneal. Accuracy will get better as new brass evens out.

[qajaq59]

I did that once years ago. Two firings took care of the problem.