heavy bullets in 44 and 45

[dirkdiggler]

I have the lee 310gr 44 and lee 300 gr 45 colt molds a coming.
What is everyone using for those calibers
I will be trying the 310 on 44 spec. and mag
What type of powder combos are everyone using? Or if anyone has a link to some loads with the heavy bullets would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance :grin:

[RobS]

Although it's been a while since you signed up it is your 1st post so Welcome.

Online resources are available at:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gtypeid=1

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Also it is a very good idea to have a few reloading manuals to cross reference.

Alliant 2400 works very well for upper end loads and also with Accurate Arms #9 and H110 at the extreme upper end loads. The latter two powders are ball powders which are picky with ignition so the case needs to be darn near full for them to work without hang fires (failure to fire the bullet out of the barrel resulting in a lodged bullet somewhere in the bore).

You'll need to push these two designs as they are heavy nosed bullets with over 80% meplat and are considered a WFN type design. Velocities over 1000 fps will give you good results and only improve as the velocities pickup. For this reason the 310 grain 44 cal bullet would not be a good choice for a 44 special, but does make a good one for the 44 mag.

Lyman manuals are very good as they will give you cast boolit load data and more importantly will provide the reloader with pressure info. My lyman manual has a 300g SWC GC bullet for the 44 mag with a powder charge of 2400 at 14.0 grains and a max charge of 15.7. I would start in the middle and work up while watching for groups to tighten but probably wouldn't exceed much over the max charge especially if you are working with a lighter 44 mag revolver.

As for the 45 cal bullet I can't recommend anything as I don't know what 45 colt you are working with.

[RobS]

This is also an option for load data, but take it with a grain of salt as some people will push things past what probably is safe. Usually the site administrator will make comments on these loads stating they are over max charges though.

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp

[44man]

RobS is correct. I too believe the boolit is too heavy for the special.
I use 21.5 gr of 296 and the Fed 150 primer in the SBH, .44 mag.
The heavy boolits do not like to be shot too slow and they don't like fast powders.
2400, H110 and 296 is where it's at. HS-6 can make some accurate loads and that would be the fastest powder I would ever use.
The .45 will also be touchy unless you have a strong gun like a BH or OLD Vaquero. The 300 gr needs to be run between 1100 and 1200 fps and you don't want to try that with a weak gun or a fast powder that peaks while everything is still in the cylinder.

[white eagle]

my sbh 44 gets a 320 gr
my bh 45c gets anywhere from 275-330 gr
all I use is H110 been threw 16# so far

[dirkdiggler]

Thanks guys,
All the load information is for Ruger Blackhawks..:D..Shoulda mentioned that. I have Lyman 47,48 and 49th. manuals. I just thought someone else might have their on special pet loads out there. One question....In the handloader mag. Dec 2009 Brian Pierce mentioned the 44 special pushing 310 Grain cast around 1050 fps. Not sure what powder used. any ideas?....Yep I am more of a lurker that poster...Thanks fellas good site have learned at lot here..:grin:

[454PB]

I'm pretty much with the previous posters. After many years of trying about every recipe around I've settled on AA#9, WC 820, H-110/WW296, and Lil'Gun for the heavier boolits.

When I want to tone them down some, I use Bluedot.

[c.r.]

Thanks guys,
All the load information is for Ruger Blackhawks..:D..Shoulda mentioned that. I have Lyman 47,48 and 49th. manuals. I just thought someone else might have their on special pet loads out there. One question....In the handloader mag. Dec 2009 Brian Pierce mentioned the 44 special pushing 310 Grain cast around 1050 fps. Not sure what powder used. any ideas?....Yep I am more of a lurker that poster...Thanks fellas good site have learned at lot here..:grin:

Brian Pearce listed a 44 special load that used H-110 to push a 300+ gr. keith bullet at ~1050 fps. It was in his group III which contains between 22Kpsi and 25K psi loads. The article was in Handloader magazine, issue 236, Aug.-Sept. 2005. He got that velocity in a 4-1/4 FA and a 6-1/2 S&W

I've shot the load in an FA mdl 97. recoil is less than keith's load, However the OAL was ~1.61, and was the absolute max for my FA. I didn't try it in any my rugers to see if it even fit. It showed zero signs of excessive pressure in the FA.

~c.r.

[44man]

Some miss the point! :drinks:
You can make anything "go bang." The exercise of reaching a velocity is useless if you believe in accuracy first. There are a million loads out there but I can count the accurate ones on less then the fingers on one hand.
I will forever laugh at the 25 yard groups in the gun comics and the long pages of test loads.
Guys, a good revolver can do an inch at 100 yards OUT OF THE BOX.
That Lee 310 can come darn close to that, it is a good boolit.
Do not try to PUNCH it into accuracy, it will not work.
Make the boolit match the twist by easing it to the velocity it needs.
TWIST, TWIST, TWIST. Do not ignore it. Understand the revolver and what it needs.
There is no way to turn a .44 special into a magnum with heavy boolits and hit anything.

[dirkdiggler]

Thanks guys...good info...first let me start by saying I have reloaded to about 20yrs now. I have several calibers I reload for but I have never owned the 44 special until now. I have owned several other wheel guns. I have made cast bullets for my old military rifles,. I am now just trying to get into the 45 colt and 44 special casting. I am not a novice by far. I am looking into the possibilities of the heavy bullets. I am not worried about a 44 mag performance I already have a BH 44 mag...:-D as far a accurate loads some may be accurate in some guns and the same load may not be accurate in another... thanks all for the help... not trying to step on anyone toes here..:-).just looking for some loads....thanks for the good site and all the helpful information....

[ironhead7544]

The heavy bullets in the 44 Special will shoot high. Might need a new front sight. I just use the 250 or so grain bullets these days in the 44s.

[starmac]

44man you highlighted OLD vaquero, which leads me to belive the newer ones are not as strong. My son in law has one that we are planning to start loading for. Do you happen to know what year the change was made.

[Dogg]

Starmac the NEW vaQUEROS say new vaquero on the side of the revolver, they also have a 3 digit starting serial number. OLD vaqueros have a 2 digit starting serial number, they just say vaquero on the side. They also have a round ejector rod knob vs a cresent shaped one on the new models. At least that is what I have been given as the identifying attributes, since recently buying several old models.

[44man]

Not sure of the year but the new ones are Colt size for the cowboy guys. Ruger says they are strong but I would not use my hunting loads in one, I use 335 to 347 gr boolits and 21.5 gr of 296 in the old one.
I feel Ruger made a mistake again by not leaving the Vaquero alone and naming the smaller one different so you could buy either.
Dogg has some good info there.

[NHlever]

44 Man is right about the velocity range with the Lee 300+ grain boolits. I worked quite a bit with the .45 caliber version a few years ago, and couldnt' get it to stabilize well past 50 yards using heavy loads of H-110 in my 5 1/2" OLD Vaquero. I was using the max published loads for the "Ruger" that I could find. My Marlin Cowboy with the 24" barrel gave enough more velocity that there wasn't tipping at 100 yards, but I knew it would still be marginal beyond that. I really think that boolit is best off in a .454, or .460. Now, I do think that a boolit of that weight with a smaller meplat in RNFP form would work fine, or better at least. That Lee boolit is a real heavy hitter, and I have carried it hunting, but it is also very close to being a wadcutter, and really needs to be pushed. That mold was sitting there in my shop the other day begging to be used, so maybe there is a .454 in my future after all. Though I have never owned one, I have shot all the versions of the Ruger Super Redhawk at the plant, and actually found the "Alaskan" much more controllable than I thought it would be. I do think we were shooting the lighter bullets the days I shot that one though. Of course I really liked the 9.3X74R in the No.1 that I shot, but I don't "need" that one for anything either! :D

Edit: I was using 44 Man's load with the Lee boolit.

[SkookumJeff]

The 'new' model Vaquero came out in 2005 and is based on the smaller XR3 grip frame.

[NHlever]

RobS is correct. I too believe the boolit is too heavy for the special.
I use 21.5 gr of 296 and the Fed 150 primer in the SBH, .44 mag.
The heavy boolits do not like to be shot too slow and they don't like fast powders.
2400, H110 and 296 is where it's at. HS-6 can make some accurate loads and that would be the fastest powder I would ever use.
The .45 will also be touchy unless you have a strong gun like a BH or OLD Vaquero. The 300 gr needs to be run between 1100 and 1200 fps and you don't want to try that with a weak gun or a fast powder that peaks while everything is still in the cylinder.

I agree 100%. I had an OLD Vaquero that I loaded very heavy with the Lee 45-300 RNFP. The meplat diameter on that boolit makes it nearly a wadcutter, and I found that I had to drive it very hard to get it to stabilize well even at 75 yards in my 45 Colt. It really wanted .454 Casull velocities, and worked better in my Marlin 24" Cowboy rifle ( boy I wish I hadn't got talked out of that gun by a friend?) The Lyman, or RCBS designs look like they might stabilize better at lower velocities, but I do like that RNFP design, and will probably have one made in a lighter 270, or so grain version. That Lee boolit sure was a thumper when it hit something though!!!

[9.3X62AL]

I'm not a habitue of heavy-for-caliber bullets in 44 Magnum or 45 Colt. They can shoot wonderfully, but are over-specialized for general use (my view only).

A Lyman #429421 atop 7.5 grains of Unique or 8.0 grains of Herco is so accurate and useful in 44 Special that I can't see the need for any heavier boolit in the caliber.

[NHlever]

You are showing too much common sense Al. :D I am playing a bit with the Lee 200 gr RNFP, and the Lyman 429215 since I have a bunch of them all cast, lubed, and ready to go, but the standard 429421, and RCBS 44-245 work pretty darned well over Unique in my 44 Specials too. I don't even have the 44, 300 grain mold. I learned what I needed to know with the 45 caliber version.

[9.3X62AL]

I have the Lee 45-310-WFN, and it shoots well if driven hard (1000 FPS+) in the Ruger BisHawk. It needs to be run 1200+ to hit anywhere near the sights, though. At 1000 FPS, it is off target paper at 25 and 50 yards, unless held at about belt-line on a B-27. THEN they'll connect in the 10-ring's toll-free dialing area. Fuggetaboutit.

With #424190--#454424--or #454490, all three will span a 3" vertical spread run between 900-1100 FPS that centers/overlays the 10-ring at 25 yards, sighted point-of-aim/point-of-impact. Life doesn't get much simpler than that, and I doubt a deer will withstand the 250 grainer at 1000 FPS any better than he would a 310 grainer running 1250. And I don't get my hand hammered to hell shooting the rounds, either.

Casull and Linebaugh calibers are conspicuous by their absence inside my gun safe. More power to all that enjoy them (no pun intended), I just have no desire to herd such beasts or imitations/adaptations thereof.

[Lloyd Smale]

I know some do it and to be honest ive fooled with it myself a bit but anymore i dont bother with heavy bullet 44 special loads. I just dont see the point. To me the 44 specials are guns i really like because there pleasant to shoot. If i want a day of shooting rip roaring loads ill take a 44mag or 45 colt or even a linebaugh to the range. The 44 special is one i take out to have FUN with. Or take to the woods hunting and when i take one whitetail or hogs or blackbear are the biggest animal i will hunt with one and 240-255s do just as well on game that size as the heavies do. Ive shot pigs and bear as big as 300lbs with 255s at 900 out of the 45 colt and 44 spec and 44 mag and have never found them lacking.

[cptinjeff]

I know some do it and to be honest ive fooled with it myself a bit but anymore i dont bother with heavy bullet 44 special loads. I just dont see the point. To me the 44 specials are guns i really like because there pleasant to shoot. If i want a day of shooting rip roaring loads ill take a 44mag or 45 colt or even a linebaugh to the range. The 44 special is one i take out to have FUN with. Or take to the woods hunting and when i take one whitetail or hogs or blackbear are the biggest animal i will hunt with one and 240-255s do just as well on game that size as the heavies do. Ive shot pigs and bear as big as 300lbs with 255s at 900 out of the 45 colt and 44 spec and 44 mag and have never found them lacking.


Ahhhh....some rational thinking and common sense. Very good point/post!