What's your recipe for "match grade" ammo?

[lawboy]

Hi all. In the last year or so I have gotten three custom Rugers put together. Two Bisleys, one SBH, all with 4-5/8 tubes. One Bisley is a 45, the other a 44. The SBH is a 44. I have been enjoying them emensely with both "special" loads and full power loads. I cast and reload for them and all has been well. However, recently I decided to try to take the quality of my loads to the next level. I have been working out procedures for doing that and I have a fairly well appointed shop. I did hit on a few items I did not have and so I've ordered those items.
Basically, what I'd like the hear is folks procedures for loading their most accurate ammunition for big bores or midbores. Everything from alloys, to case prep, to weighing charges, bullets, cases, uniforming primer pockets, etc. Also, if you will list the equipment you are using for these procedures that would really be great. Thanks to all.

[44man]

I can offer a few suggestions since I shoot Rugers. First, I use heavier boolits. In the .44. I use the 320 gr LBT WLNGC, a home made 330 gr, and the Lee C430-310-RF gr boolits. All of these shoot great with 21.5 gr's of 296 and the Federal 150 primer. (Get away from the magnum primer in the .44 and .45!)
Then for jacketed the Hornady 240 XTP with 24 gr's of 296. The 300 XTP with 20.5 gr's of 296.
For the .45, I use the 335 gr LBT WLNGC with 21.5 gr's of 296 also. The Lyman 452651 shoots great as does the Lee C452-300-RF, same powder charge. Federal 150's only.
I only use Hornady dies for these and set to neck size only below where the boolit will be seated. I do nothing with primer pockets, I just trim to even lengths and crimp with the Redding profile crimpers, just enough to hold boolits under recoil. You must have good and even case tension on every case and the Hornady dies give me as close as can be had.
I use Remington cases most of the time but have used many others except WW. I throw charges with the Redding BR measure, never varies more the 1/10 gr with 296.
I have shot many sub 1" groups at 50 and 75 yd's and almost broke 1" at 100 yd's with cast boolits. I put 12 out of 12 in a 5 gallon bucket at 400 meters with the .44. What more can you ask for?
It is funny, but 21.5 gr's of 296 seems to be the magic number with both guns and all the heavy cast boolits.

[lawboy]

44Man, it seems like we are doing a few things the same, but you mentioned some things I will have to try.

I am using WW cases and WW standard primers. I also use the Lee 310 bullet and I love it! Ditto W296 in the 44, only I am using 20.0grs. I will have to try the 21.5gr charge weight and the Federal 150 primers. I totally agree that standard, not magnum is the way to go with primers.

In the 45, I am using the RCBS 45-300FN flatnose bullet and 19.0grs of 2400. I also have a Lyman 300gr. 454629 mould but the bullets from that mould are not performing worth squat with my current alloy. I think I will have to harden the alloy and actaully but the gas check on the bullet for it to work. I am getting hits on the berm 20 yards left or right of aim, and hits in the dirt 50 yards short of the target with this bullet!

With cases, I am trimming to length, and reaming primer pockets. It just kills me how uneven the primer pocket floors are. On some cases it is hard to get the primer below the case head without reaming!

In 44, I am messing around with Dillon, Lee and RCBS dies. No real opinion as to which is best yet. In 45, I just have a set of Lee dies and a set of Hornady New Dimension dies. The bullet seat die on the Hornady set gives me fits with WFN style bullets.

I just ordered a small digital scale and I plan to start weighing bullets for uniformity before loading them. I don't know what my quality standard should/will be. I'll have to work that through once I get a feel for what variation is actually going to be.

I have yet to sit down and bench the loads, partially because I don't shoot a handgun well from the bench AT ALL. I can stay on a 9-inch swinger at 100 yards offhand with either gun on a good day but I know that really isn't saying much about the absolute accuracy of the loads. I will have to bench them and see what is what. I really want to get that Lyman 45 bullet working. It is a very pretty bullet.

[Explorer1]

Consitentcy is the name of the game. The benchrest world goes to EXTREMES to gain consistentcy, triming and weighing brass, triming and cleaning primer pockets and flash holes, etc.
Its all a matter of time and what works for your combinations. Bullet consistentcy and powder charges are probably the biggest paybacks once the brass is prep'd.
Watch OAL once you determine what your guns like.

[Jon K]

44 Mag:

DW 44VH8
WW Brass
WLP primer

Sierra 240 gr JHP
23.5 gr H110
Redding Profile Crimp
1345fps av/ 4.7sd

RCBS 240 gr SWC
19.7 gr MPP or 2400
Redding Taper Crimp
1310fps/5.8sd

IHMSA/NRA Pistol Silhoutte

[44man]

I use pretty hard alloys on mine. Have to watch the gas check thing. Some boolits will shoot without them but others need the extra drive band or they key hole. Some boolits are EXTREMELY touchy about that.
I have had trouble in the past with WW brass in other calibers so I never buy them. I had a batch where the case heads were all thicknesses and some would not chamber unless I filed the heads.
Remington, Starline, Hornady and Midway brass has all been good.

[500bfrman]

So what's the deal with magnum versus regular primers. I think I have read 44man saying the magnums will raise pressures. From my limited knowledge on the subject the mags give a bigger spark to the fire? But that comes with a cost. So in likelihood it is best to see if the regulars work and then only go to mags if you must? educated me please.

[lawboy]

500bfrman, I don't know about the high pressure issue. I do know that with 296 and 2400 in 44 and 45 cases, standard primers have proven entirely satisfactory. Now, with Lil'Gun in 45 cases, I have found a need for magnum primers to get consistent ignition. In 357, Lil'Gun seems to work fine with standard primers. Regards.

[44man]

I never said the mag primer will raise pressures! What I said was that if boolit tension is not enough, the extra oomph of the mag primer can blow the boolit out of the case before good powder ignition is attained.
But that is not my problem as I use very tight tension. (Not crimp.) From shooting and testing the .44 since 1956, I have found the the use of a mag primer will triple my group size no matter what powder or boolit, bullet I use. Now don't ask me why it is this way in both the .44 and .45 because I don't know. In other calibers like the .357, .475 and 45-70 it is the opposite where the mag primer is more accurate.
This is something each shooter should experiment with himself. Of course if you have a mediocre load to start with, you might get better accuracy with the mag primer, but is it an improvement? I work each boolit up slowly to the most accurate load, NEVER the fastest! Then I test with the mag primers, starting low and working up slowly to see if they help. At no time have I found the mag primer as accurate as the standard primer. I won all of my sillywet shoots with standard primers! 79 out of 80 with a SBH is nothing to sneeze at! Silhouette shooting is where I found that 296 and the standard primer can not be outshot with any other powder or primer. I worked ALL of the powders and found dismal performance with 2400 and the very worst, 4227. This SBH now has 57,600 rounds through it. I have owned 8 .44's, everything from DW, S&W to Rugers. My Rugers always won.
H110 never worked for me in anything but the standard Redhawk! The SRH loves 296 also. Now I find the .475 shines with 296 and no other powder can match it, but it needs the mag primer. For a lighter load in the .475, HS-6 is great.
I have shot the tightest groups with the S&W 29's, most times 1/2" at 50 yd's. But they are so extremely grip sensitive that the group point of impact can change as much as 10" by putting down the gun and picking it back up, even though group size did not change. If you take the S&W and shoot one shot, put the gun down, pick it up and shoot another, after 12 shots you will have sprayed the whole target. Keep the gun in your hand and you will get very tight groups.
The Ruger SBH can be held any which way!

[Dale53]

I have done a good bit of Ransom Rest Shooting with .44 mags, .357's, and .45 acp's. The single most important factor is good bullets. If you don't have match quality bullets (whether cast or jacketed) you will not have match quality results. Bullets are the key. Then use the proper powder for the velocity of the load and the bullet weight. The powder recommendations above pretty much mirror my experience in general if not specifically.

Dale53

[catboat]

Do a chekc on your cylinder throats. Many Rugers are undersized. My GP100's throats were .355" and it grouped 4+ inches at 25 yards. I had them reamed open to .358", and groups were rounder and cut to ~ 2.0-2.5" at same distance, same load.

Cylindersmith.com

[BD]

My theory for "match grade" pistola ammo:

1. Pick the bullet you want to use, (IMHO heavy for caliber).
2.Throat the chamber(s) to fit that bullet
3. Use the slowest powder that will give you the necessary velocity and still burn completely.
4. Use the least primer which will light the load reliably in the temperature you're in
5. trim the brass, ream the pocket and chamfer the hole from the inside. Shoot the brass twice then relegate it to plinking
6. work out a tension/crimp setup that doesn't expand the brass at all over the bullet shank
7. load enough so you can practice.

Two important points:
1.If you make a bad choice on #1 above, the rest of your time is wasted.
2. for action pistol sports, Ignore everything but #7, and load as much as you can afford so you can practice more. If I'm not shooting 400 to 500 rounds a week I'm not gonna be anywhere near the top of an IDPA match.
BD