Magma star users,

[Lee W]

I am getting lube on the noses of all my bullets. I guess it's the pressure or the temp. The lyman heater keeps it at around 115-120. ( I can keep my hand on it for a long time.) That is not too hot according to Magma.
I keep the pressure at about five turns more or less. How many turns have you found works the best for you?


BTW I have had it for six months and about five thousand bullets with Rooster HVR lube.

[Willbird]

I have the air feed on mine, and I have found that too much heat causes what you describe more so than too much pressure, running as little pressure as will make the machine work seems to work best, when the machine vapor locks because the lube isnt flowing, add just enough heat to make it work, more is not better. :-)

Bill

[Iron River Red]

Amen to that.

I have the air feed setup too and spent several days just messing with the adjustments of everything. At this point we have run about 25,000 bullets thru our caster and then the lube sizer.

I can say I have found a few things that causes the condition you have described.

If you have it too hot, the lube will ooze out after the bullet base passes and deposit lube onto the next bullet's nose.

If you have any inclusions or wrinkles in your bullets, the pressure will pump the lube up the channel created by this and it will flow out onto the nose.

This one was the hardest to figure out for me; I setup the punch and die verbatum to the directions and had all kinds of grease on the noses. I slowly started unthreading the punch from the ram about a turn at a time and found that it had less and less grease on the noses. I eventually, had the punch out far enough (long) that the bullets were be pressed further down in the sizing die. This allowed me to find the sweet spot faster when going from one size to another.

If you are only seeing 3 small deposits on the nose, then you are close. The sizing dies are made to allow 3 holes to line up on each groove. You plug all the ones that aren't being used with a piece of #7 1/2 shot tapped into each hole.

I have found that when all is perfectly tuned in, the bullets make a small "pop" sound when they are punched thru.

You will eventually get fast at the setup, because you have to go thru it for each die change.

If you have a small compressor, it's worth the Ben Franklin to get the air feed. It makes the process much more consistent.

One other thing since I'm writing a book here...
If you go with the air feed, fully extend the piston rod and then push it back in about 1/2". Then take a red felt tip marker and make a mark around the piston rod by reaching thru the vent hole on the bottom of your cylinder. When you see it come into sight, you will know you need to add a stick. This has kept me from getting an air pocket for about 10 sticks now. Let the heater cycle 4 or 5 times while you take a 15 minute break and you can go right back to sizing without getting the fluffy grease/air mixture that you will have to work thru when you get an air pocket.

One last thing, if your alloy gets soft, be prepared to clean your dies every 2500 bullets or so...

Good Luck. :wink:

[Lee W]

The small pop is the trick.
Stick with me here.
With the bullet set lower in the die, the next bullet seals the die creating a high pressure air pocket that helps keep the lube in the holes until that next bullet covers the holes.
Now I must cast more to see if it works. :grin:

[slughammer]

The small pop is the trick.
Stick with me here.
With the bullet set lower in the die, the next bullet seals the die creating a high pressure air pocket that helps keep the lube in the holes until that next bullet covers the holes.
Now I must cast more to see if it works. :grin:

Take a look at the size of the holes in the star dies, counterbored for the 7 1/2 shot but they are thru drilled at about .04. These small holes make the whole thing work. Takes a certain viscosity to NOT flow from the reservoir pressure, but to flow from the piston pressure when called upon every cycle.

I use a clothes iron on an aluminum plate as a heater and I got rid of lube on the noses by moving the iron farther from the press. I get complete fill of the grooves by holding the bottom of the stroke for a fraction of a second to allow time for the lube to flow into the groove completely. The slight pause is only the amount of time it takes to move my left hand from the boolit pile to the ready position right next to the die. Slowing down that fraction of a second eliminated messy boolits and made my production rate go WAY up.

[Iron River Red]

It seems to me the pressure in the reservoir is sufficient to keep the supply void to the injector filled with lube, but is not high enough to over come the viscosity and allow lube to flow out past the injector itself...

By raising the temperature the viscosity is lowered and it allows free flow... or by raising the pressure subsequently pushing the lube past the injector.

I guess what I have observed is that either condition could cause undesired flow into the die area.

I don't know about the .040" diameter hole being vital. I did notice that he is right about it being a counterbored hole with just a small .040 thru hole. I figured it was made that way to accomodate the piece of shot and the hole needed to be smaller simply to prevent cross filling or some undesired condition.

I remember the guy at Magma telling me that they intended for there to be 3 holes used for each lube ring. This was to evenly apply the lube and reduce the amount of time it takes to fill the groove.

Such speculation about the theory of operation just goes to show that my wife may be right about me... "I ain't right..."

:-)

[Willbird]

I do agree that pressure and lube temp work hand in hand and it can be hard to sort out which one is to blame, but I have found temperature far more sensitive with LBT blue than pressure.

if the temp is too high lowering the pressure will help SOME, if the temp is just right the pressure doesnt seem to matter between 60-80 works just fine.

I have the magma heated base BTW


Bill

[Lee W]

Well I made a thermostat control for my lyman plate. I used a bi-metal control from the wife's iron, (I got permission :grin: ) and a cord from an AC foot switch I had.
I put it in an aluminum project box I had laying around and checked it proper wiring. It works!
It took some time to build and almost as long to tune the temp. Now I need to find the best temp for my setup. The initial temp setting is about 102F.

[Willbird]

I'v been thinking Lee, it would be far better I think to control the temp of the lube sizer not the temp of the plate like most if not all designs do, or at least set up to measure the temp of an area crucial to function of the lube sizer itself.

how to do that is a good question.

Bill

[LAH]

The punch adjustment advise is right on. I have 4 Stars and one auto lube Ballisti Cast machine. All work on the same principle. We use LBT Blue and Ballisti Cast hard lube. I find the least amount of heat works best. I use both the pressure screw and air cylinder set up. I like the constant pressure of air better and tend to use 60 pounds and just enough heat to make the bullets fill out.

Remember, dirty noses aren't pretty.

[BigCheese]

First, use a vernier to measure distance from the base of the bullet to the center of the lube groove Call this #1. Then measure the distance from the base of the die to the lube holes. (The die will have to be removed from the Star and lube removed to access the holes). Call this #2. Subtract #1 from #2. This is the amount the base of the bullet should be recessed up from the bottom of the die.

Use the depth gage at the end of the vernier to span the hole at the bottom of the die. Start a bullet high; keep turning down the top punch and operating the handle (no lube pressure) until the base of the bullet is at the calculated distance above the bottom rim of the die. Once you do this, keep the dimension in a notebook so the Star can be reset when you change bullets.

[Willbird]

Also I have found that I can use an adjustible parallal to measure the distance from the top punch to the top of the die with the ram all the way up.

I then record that value, and I can easily return to it in another setup, however it may not transfer from one machine to another as well as the method just posted.

Bill

[Beau Cassidy]

Of the 2 factors that cause leakage, lube viscosity and handle pressure, I just run a little less pressure on mine (not air pressured) since I generally use Felix lube.

Beau

[Iron River Red]

After reading the above postings, I realized everyone who states an air pressure are way higher than mine. I use 35 lbs and have no problem at all with feed. I use a 2''x6''x8'' aluminum block under my heated base. Maybe this is part of the reason I don't need that much air pressure.

The idea of the adjustable parallels is great! It will simplify the setup and the speed of changeovers! Good call there.

I use a proprietary hard lube that must be warmed to about 135 degress so I may be able to run a lower pressure for that reason also.

Has anyone tried the trick about marking the cylinder shaft yet?

[Willbird]

Yaknow Red, on the marking the rod trick, I always think about it as I'm lube sizing, but then when I add a stick I forget.

I have been wrestling with mine getting it used to me using it and I have no doubt that I may be able to run less pressure when it has finally accomodated itself to my style of doing things.

I may dig in the aluminum pile and see if I have something to make a thicker heatsink out of, that makes perfect sense that it would help smooth out the temperature swings. Brass or copper might work even better, heck I could even make a mold and pour a LEAD one hehe.

Bill

[Iron River Red]

I likes the way you thinks...

:coffee:

Has anyone got any good deas for cleaning the sizing dies when they start getting lead build up?

Is it possible I may need to correct my alloy to prevent this?
I don't have a lead hardness tester. So I always weigh out my mixture to keep the consistency. My production bullets are hard ie: can't scratch them at all with your fingernail and I'm noticing they are getting hard to size when I reach around 3500 bullets. The small 100 grain swc's seem to build up faster than my 500's do.

Any thoughts on that?

[slughammer]

Has anyone got any good deas for cleaning the sizing dies when they start getting lead build up?
and I'm noticing they are getting hard to size when I reach around 3500 bullets.
Any thoughts on that?

I've never taken note of lead build up, but it may be there. I have seen it mentioned to catch a sized boolit and run it through the die again. I tried this and it does assist the next few boolits or so, but quickly goes away.
For a commercial operation, perhaps put the boolits in a vibratory tumbler and apply a very small amount of spray lube or powdered graphite and allow to tumble until the carrier evaporates. May only need a small amount to make a big difference. Just an idea.

[Pb head]

When I have boolits that are hard to push through my star because I waited too long after I cast and water dropped or if I just want to make it a lot easier I do this. Take a tube of Lee sizing lube, 8oz of alcohol {dry gas }, mix in a spray bottle and apply a light coating to the boolits, tumble around in a large box, and let dry for 15 min or so. You'll find they go through the die like greased lightning. I do the same to rifle brass for full length sizing. Fast, easy, and cheap.

Pb head

[StarMetal]

PB

Hmmmm, that sounds like a good mixture for napalm.

Joe

[Pb head]

No-no, too thin, would have to be thicker mix for good napalm

Pb head

[StarMetal]

I'll add beeswax to thicken it up.

Joe

[Pb head]

Don't forget the Ivory soap to keep it from seperating

Pb

[Iron River Red]

Does your napalm, I mean bullet lube stay in the grooves after you lubricate them? I thought about a little one shot or similar, but decided against trying it for fear the lube may not stay in the grooves during shipping.

[Pb head]

I never had any trouble with the lube staying in the grooves as long as the boolits were completely dry before I lubed. I used Hornaday one shot spray for a while but that was too expensive. Then I tried lanolin and alcohol mix but it was too hard to keep from separating. I've heard of guys using WD40 or silicon but I think that might cause the lube to not stick very well.

Pb head

[anachronism]

I've also used Midway Mold Release on bullets before sizing. I spray them, and let 'em dry, then size and lube normally. This is the only satisfactory use I've found for Mold Release.

Bob

[Willbird]

Hey Red, on marking the cyl shaft. I remembered the other day when I ran her dry to have a look at that, the problem is that if you push the rod back and mark the shaft then whatever paint or such you put on there gets wiped off by the cyl seal if the rod ever goes the full travel again.

Also I lubed some Lee 190 grain 45 acp boolits and I got the "pop" I do not typically get the pop with any single grease groove boolits no matter where I set the top punch.

I worked out a way to have the ejected boolits slide down a clear plastic tube into a box that is working pretty slick, the tube slows them down so they don't get dinged up. A fella could even get smart and put a ziplock baggie over the end of the tube so it filled the bag up nicely I think. I will post pics of the crude prototype if anybody is interested.

Bill