Lookin' at a Uberti Sharps

rvpilot76 · 09-28-2006, 09:14 PM

Quigley model, 34" pipe, 45-70 or 45-120. Seemed to be a very well made rifle. Has anyone here shot one? I am completely new to the Sharps scene, and I'm not sure how the Uberti stacks up. I would like to use this in both formal and informal target shooting, as well as hunting; someday for 'tatonka'. Sportsman's Warehouse has them for $1550, and I'd like to make an informed decision.

Thanks for your input,

Kevin

Buckshot · 09-28-2006, 11:12 PM

.............A 34" barrel may just be a bit more then you'll find happiness with. A lot of the BPCR shooters got 34" bbls and ended up having up to 4" cut off. Fouling issues. Both powder and lead.

I have a Pedersoli Super Match Rem RB in 40-65 with a 34" octagon to round barrel and haven't had any issues, but I don't shoot BP in it either. The rifle itself and the barrel quality is not an issue. They're very well made and high quality.

.................Buckshot

Montanan · 09-29-2006, 04:29 AM

You can read some information over at Shiloh forum the llink will take you directly to a talk on "best long range gun and why" There are many with 32" and 34" that with everything right, do real good. Pay attention to Kenny Wasserburger, VBULL, MLV and a few others who have won national championships currently and in the past. My personal rifle is a 32" barrel Remington Rolling Block, which I like and don't have any issues with.

The 45-70 is also a much better way to go if you have not been the BPCR game before, the learning curve is much easier and the 45-70 is much more forgiving. The 45-3.25" or as the 45-120 is not even historicly correct. But after you learn consistant loading with the 45-70 your can ream up to make your Quigley rifle the longer cartridge of choice.

I know from the boards many a shooter who got the 45-3.25" and hated the massive recoil and had to re-barrel the rifle because it. Also getting the 45-3.25" to shoot worth a hoot is another thing.

Its your choice and shoulder

waksupi · 09-29-2006, 07:18 AM

I'd agree with the .45-70, for the mentioned reasons, plus cheaper brass.
Once you get moved into Idaho, you may want to go talk to Dave Gullo, at Buffalo Arms in Sandpoint. He generally has some used rifles on the rack, and he is one of the most knowledgable BPCR guys around, along with being a heck of a nice guy.

Montanan · 09-29-2006, 07:25 PM

Dave Gullo would be an great guy to talk to about this.....

After all he scored real good in the Creedmoor 2006 - Match report

Individual Long Range Agg - 800, 900 & 1000yds
Dave Gullo (USA)

Individual Overall Agg
Dave Gullo (USA)

Here is what Dave has at Buffalo Arms for 1874 Sharps Rifles and of course my favorite Rolling Block Rifles and of course here is a listing for all of Dave Gullo's Rifle Listings

Have a good one and I hope this helps.

KCSO · 09-29-2006, 07:43 PM

I spent a summer shooting a 45-110 in a 12 1/2 pound Sharps rifle and used it on a Buffalo. At 100 yards it didn't kill any better than a 45-70. The bullet went in one side and out the other. Fot target work the gun will shoot, but I would hate to have to shoot 40-60 consecutive rounds. The pounding will give you a headache. I know you are a real man and recoil doesn't bother you (I've only said this about a hundred times myself) but it WILL. If I were making a living killing Buffalo at 400 yards I would see some use for a 45-??? but not otherwise. The Buff I dropped with a 45-70 were just as dead just as quick.

As to the 34" barrel I shoot next to a Quiley shooter and he has some carefully worked up loads, but in certian weather he will foul out in the last 2" of barrel about 5 shots quicker than I do with my 32" barrel. I don' consider this a problem so I would get the rifle I liked. I don't think the price is any bargain and I would do some more shopping before I bought at that price.

Here is a comparison for you to mull over... 45-70 Brass 20.00 a hundred 45-120 2.00 each. Dies for 45-70 0r 45-90 23.00 Dies for 45-120 (and I have a set) 110.00 add extra powder and extra lead and it will add up. My 45-110 really shot best with 92 grains of FFg and a 535 bullet. My 45-70 shoots fine with 62 grains of FFG and a 330 Gould. The Gould is an excellent deer bullet and the 405 to 450 is excellent for Buff. A 45-70 with 68 grains of FFG and a 405 bullet will shoot through the skull of a bull and the bullet will go all the way to the shoulder. On a side to side shot the bullet goes in one side and out the other.

Personaly I wouldn't go over a 45-90.

montana_charlie · 09-29-2006, 08:07 PM

And...if the gun says Uberti on it...it was probably made by Pedersoli.
I say 'probably' because a few of the early Uberti Sharps guns were made by Armi Sport...but Pedersoli is making them, now.

Uberti wants in on the Sharps market...but can't build barrels that can match Pedersoli's.

So, if you see two guns at different prices, a Uberti and a Pedersoli, take your pick. They came from the same plant.
Uberti is having some rather 'plain' guns built for them, and they don't (yet) offer all of the caliber choices that Pedersoli produces.
CM

mazo kid · 10-01-2006, 03:13 PM

I have a Pedersoli Sharps in 45-90 and really like it. As someone said earlier, brass is a bit higher than 45-70 (~$70/100 for Starline, or get some stretched brass from Dave Gullo) but a lot less than the longer stuff. It seemed easier to work up loads for than the Shiloh 45-110 I had earlier. The 45-70 would be a good gun to learn BPCR loading. Emery

omgb · 10-01-2006, 10:58 PM

I have a Pedersoli 45-90 and once had a 50-3.25. One thing you gotta know going into this, if you do shoot the loooooong case rounds, you really need to do it with BP. These cases were not designed for smokeless and although they can be loaded to work, it's rarely the best. Ringed chambers and barrel bulges abound with smokeless and large capacity cases. Well, at least the stories do, whether or not it's fact I can't say one way or the other. Still, Shiloh insists BP is the best powder for its guns as does Pedersoli. The 45-70 is the easiest to get started on. these barrels are usually rifled 1-18 and shoot heavy 500-550 grain bullets exceedingly well.

Boz330 · 10-02-2006, 06:39 AM

I have a buddy that shoots a Pedersoli Sharps in 45-70 with a 34 in barrel and does very well with it. Having said that, it doesn't make the weight requirement for BPCRS and is a pain to shoot the offhand chickens with. I personally would hate to tote it hunting. Talking with the good shooters in our area hardly any of them shoot anything over 30 inches. The real plus of this rifle was that he got it from Cabela's for $799 on sale. He is going to chop 4 inches off of it for all of the above mentioned reasons. The $1550 price sounds a little high to me. You could get a Shilo or C Sharps basic for that kind of money.

Bob

omgb · 10-02-2006, 08:38 AM

Here's another thing to consider. Whatever you do, if you are really going to shoot this puppy more than a few times a year, get the shotgun butt. I repeat, get the shotgun butt. Sacrifice just about any of the fancy trim points such as pistol grip, Hartford Collar, German silver forend cap, but do not sacrifice the shotgun butt. These guns kick and are heavy to boot. The curved butt will hit you hard enough that in as few as 30 rounds and certainly by 60 rounds, your arm will be shaking and your shoulder will be stiff. Trust me, I am no 90 lb. weakling and shoot 100 rounds of skeet on Fridays and turn around and shoot rifles the next morning without even a hitch. I also have a couple of double rifles that I shoot each month but that Sharps beats the hell out of me to the point that I now wear a cheater pad when I'm going to shoot it for any length. I bought the Billy Dixon model in 45-90. If I had to do it over again, I'd have bought the target model with the shotgun butt. Not quite as romantic but a whole lot easier on the body.

Regardless of which you eventually buy, set aside another $400 for the Pedersoli Soule sight set. If you are going to bang away at anything over 100 or 200 yards, you will need these sights to bring out the accuracy. the factory sights are OK for hunting and general plinking out to 100-150 yards but they are in no way adequate for serious target work. The Pedersoli sights are an excellent set for the money.

montana_charlie · 10-02-2006, 09:32 AM

When speaking of raw inches, I doubt that there is enough performance difference to sneeze at between a 30-inch and a 34-inch.

Increasing the sight radius makes precise sight alignment easier on any gun, but the most popular lengths (on target ranges) appears to be 30" and 32".
On a typical Sharps rifle with a 32-inch barrel, a tang tight will be 36 inches from the front sight. A 30-inch barrel will have a sight radius of 34 inches.

The tang sights are marked with vernier scales that are calibrated at 100 units per inch. And, at one hundred yards, 1 minute of angle equals 1.0472"

So...
- With a 36-inch sight radius, each point on the scale is worth
1 inch at 100 yards.
- With the 34-inch spacing each point makes a change of
1 Minute Of Angle.

Knowing precisely how much change can be expected from sight adjustments is a handy thing when shots are being scored on a paper target in tenths of an inch.
When the scoring is done in minute-of-ribcage, those exact geometric relationships become less important.

Other than weight/balance and increased sight radius, I can't think of a single advantage of a 34-inch barrel over the shorter lengths...with the possible exception that the extra few inches might be of some value when the extremely long cases are used. A guy who shoots LR competitively may have more information than I.

As for that .45-120 chambering...the used ones you see on the market are mostly 'fired twice' guns.
The guy shot it once to see how much it recoiled...and once more to see if the first one was for real.

CM

Boz330 · 10-03-2006, 06:13 AM

Speaking of shot twice, I got a #3 ruger in 45-70 for Christmas one year. I went right to the reloading book and pulled out the lightest load for the Ruger and the 405gr bullets I had on the shelf and loaded up 50. I touched off the first round and layed the gun down and shot another one a few times. Then I went back to that little Ruger and shot it again thinking that it really didn't kick that bad the first time. It did! Then I went and pulled the remaining 48 and went to the 1873 Trapdoor data for the next loads. I figured that if that velocity would kill a deer in 1873 it would still work today, and it did. Was a whole lot more fun to shoot as well.

Bob

John Boy · 10-03-2006, 12:45 PM

I've been shooting the Pedersoli Quigley (45-70) for close to 2 years. With a vernier rear sight it produces good groups at 600 yds (my longest range near home)

Here's the Pedersoli line of Sharps ... http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/Armi...Id=260&lang=en

If I had to do it over again, I go with the 1874 Sharps Silhouette DeLuxe in 45-70 (2.1). It is 3# lighter and has a pistol grip butt stock. I'd send it to LaserGraphics and have 20pt checkering done on the forearm and butt stock.

The Quigley at 13.2# is a lot of weight to hold trying to shoot 100 or 200yds of hand v 10#'s

The 45-120 (2.6) cases are expensive, plus more expensive to reload than the 2.1. Store bought ammo is gonna cost over $300 for 100 rounds for the 45-120.

Recoil with the 2.6 is a brute! I shoot an average of 100 rounds of the 2.1 each trip to the range and don't feel any noticeable felt recoil shooting with only a shirt on.

Both cartridges will shoot 1000yds with the same accuracy. Knock down power with a 45-70 has close to 2000 ft lbs at 100yds.

As for the 30" - 32" - 34" barrel sight radius ... I shoot a H&R 45-70 (32" barrel and 8#'s)with a vernier sight and the Green Mountain barrel is just as accurate as the Quigley. Last summer had a (7" x 2.5") 5 shot group using a 500gr BP bullet over 57grs of Triple 7 at 600yds. Still trying to repeat that group

Big Picture: The majority of the good shooters at matches shoot the 45-70 and not the 45- 120.

Bad Ass Wallace · 10-03-2006, 03:38 PM

If I had to choose one rifle/calibre it would be 45/90 in a 12lb rifle with 32" barrel. This would allow you to shoot both "Silly-wets" and long range gong & paper matches.

Fact is a 45/70 can't hold enough powder without excessive crushing through compression which leads to inconsistant ignition. There are those that claim to get a full 70gn of powder in but with a wad and reasonable compression of .15-.20" and a quality 500-550gn target bullet it won't happen!

At the other end, a 45/120 will hold 112gn BP with a 550gn bullet but burns a whole lot of extra powder for little gain over smaller cases. Mine shoots but with a 1:14" twist and must be cleaned after each shot which is a PIA.

Quote:

Other than weight/balance and increased sight radius, I can't think of a single advantage of a 34-inch barrel over the shorter lengths...

Rubbish! A long barrel is used for target work for these very reasons! I noted that one target shooter at Creedmoor 2006 had a 37.5" barrel on his 45/90 and shot very well!

By the way a 45/120 is a 3.25" case not 2.6" (45/100)

My own target rifle is a Pedersoli 45/70 which has been rechambered to 45/90 but with a much different throat than the standard Ped chamber. Load is 73gn Wano PP and a 540gn custom Creedmoor bullet. Powder is drop tubed through a 30" tube and compressed .12"

Budget for the following in addition to your rifle; drop tube, compression die, custom lathe bored mould, neck expander and good Soule sight. These items will add nearly 50% to the cost of your final purchase!

Victory PGT custom 540gn mould

Some of my BPCR's; 50/90, 50,70, 45/90, 40/65, & 45/70's

Soule Sight

Lyman tapered bullets shoot well but need cleaning after each shot which is impractical in the field. 45/70 will hold 75gn BP with just one driving band set into the case

John Boy · 10-03-2006, 08:32 PM

Quote:

By the way a 45/120 is a 3.25" case not 2.6" (45/100)

Yep Bad Ass - to error is human

Might add: How is the PGT Victory bullet working for you?

Lee · 10-03-2006, 09:25 PM

rvpilot76, as others have mentioned here, a vernier sight is what you want. I own a couple Pedersolis with tang sights, and neither is a vernier sight. They are the "cheap" Pedersoli sights, part of the reason I got as good a price as I did. A good vernier sight is like a fine Scotch: A beauty to behold with a price that will take your breath away" But it's worth it. My sights have marks with some cryptic "25", "50", "75", **** stamped into them. Given time I can probably translate those into some meaningful ranges, but moving from one range to another will always be a PITA.............................................L ee

Bad Ass Wallace · 10-03-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Boy

How is the PGT Victory bullet working for you?

I've only had it for a short while but I loaded PGT's for Creedmoor 2006 and it was very consistant in the 20-25mph wind that was blowing all week. Accuracy over a bench is excellent; not tight tight groups but consistantly "tight and round groups with no flyers". Group size is 1.5-2.0" off a bench but I want to do a lot more testing with alloy. I'm using 1:30 and need to try something harder.

The throating that I had cut in my 45/90 chamber, allows the first boolit groove to seat out of the case and perfectly align down the bore. I also have a Paul Jones 650gn Creedmoor for my 50/90 that groups just as well if you can tolerate the recoil.

Personally, I don't even look in the catalogues of massed produced moulds any more and would not hesitate to purchase additional Victory or PJ moulds; they are worth every cent just for the ease of getting tight groups with almost any load.

martinibelgian · 10-03-2006, 11:47 PM

BA,
It is possible to get 70+ grains in 45-70 case without undue compression, but there are some caveats:
1. use large capacity brass (usually W-W)
2. minimal wad (card, ldpe)
3. specific bullet - mine is a 520gr with 3 GG's, and most of the nose in the rifling

However, I do start getting serious compression at the 80+gr level - but it goes in though, and works, giving me about 1260 fps

plasma · 10-05-2006, 09:48 AM

If you go for the 45-120 (45 3 1/2") you will want a heavy rifle. I have a C Sharps Arms in 45-120 that only weighs 11 1/2 pounds and the recoil with the 540 grain and above bullets is stout. I hunt with the Sharps but for bench shooting a few more ponds of rifle would be a help.

09-28-2006, 09:14 PM	#1
rvpilot76 Boolit Master Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Spokane, Washington Posts: 507	Lookin' at a Uberti Sharps Quigley model, 34" pipe, 45-70 or 45-120. Seemed to be a very well made rifle. Has anyone here shot one? I am completely new to the Sharps scene, and I'm not sure how the Uberti stacks up. I would like to use this in both formal and informal target shooting, as well as hunting; someday for 'tatonka'. Sportsman's Warehouse has them for $1550, and I'd like to make an informed decision. Thanks for your input, Kevin __________________ History will record, with the greatest astonishment, that those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening. The problem with Liberals is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan

09-28-2006, 11:12 PM	#2
Buckshot Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: So. California Posts: 9,123	.............A 34" barrel may just be a bit more then you'll find happiness with. A lot of the BPCR shooters got 34" bbls and ended up having up to 4" cut off. Fouling issues. Both powder and lead. I have a Pedersoli Super Match Rem RB in 40-65 with a 34" octagon to round barrel and haven't had any issues, but I don't shoot BP in it either. The rifle itself and the barrel quality is not an issue. They're very well made and high quality. .................Buckshot __________________ Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner. "The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."

09-29-2006, 07:25 PM	#5
Montanan Boolit Bub Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Montana Territory Posts: 36	Dave Gullo would be an great guy to talk to about this..... After all he scored real good in the Creedmoor 2006 - Match report Individual Long Range Agg - 800, 900 & 1000yds Dave Gullo (USA) Individual Overall Agg Dave Gullo (USA) Here is what Dave has at Buffalo Arms for 1874 Sharps Rifles and of course my favorite Rolling Block Rifles and of course here is a listing for all of Dave Gullo's Rifle Listings Have a good one and I hope this helps. __________________ "JB"

09-29-2006, 08:07 PM	#7
montana_charlie I'm A Honcho! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: West of Great Falls, Montana Posts: 6,335	And...if the gun says Uberti on it...it was probably made by Pedersoli. I say 'probably' because a few of the early Uberti Sharps guns were made by Armi Sport...but Pedersoli is making them, now. Uberti wants in on the Sharps market...but can't build barrels that can match Pedersoli's. So, if you see two guns at different prices, a Uberti and a Pedersoli, take your pick. They came from the same plant. Uberti is having some rather 'plain' guns built for them, and they don't (yet) offer all of the caliber choices that Pedersoli produces. CM __________________ Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

10-01-2006, 03:13 PM	#8
mazo kid Boolit Master Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Near Mazomanie, Wi. Posts: 298	I have a Pedersoli Sharps in 45-90 and really like it. As someone said earlier, brass is a bit higher than 45-70 (~$70/100 for Starline, or get some stretched brass from Dave Gullo) but a lot less than the longer stuff. It seemed easier to work up loads for than the Shiloh 45-110 I had earlier. The 45-70 would be a good gun to learn BPCR loading. Emery __________________ NRA Life NMLRA Life F&AM

09-29-2006, 04:29 AM	#3
Montanan Boolit Bub Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Montana Territory Posts: 36	You can read some information over at Shiloh forum the llink will take you directly to a talk on "best long range gun and why" There are many with 32" and 34" that with everything right, do real good. Pay attention to Kenny Wasserburger, VBULL, MLV and a few others who have won national championships currently and in the past. My personal rifle is a 32" barrel Remington Rolling Block, which I like and don't have any issues with. The 45-70 is also a much better way to go if you have not been the BPCR game before, the learning curve is much easier and the 45-70 is much more forgiving. The 45-3.25" or as the 45-120 is not even historicly correct. But after you learn consistant loading with the 45-70 your can ream up to make your Quigley rifle the longer cartridge of choice. I know from the boards many a shooter who got the 45-3.25" and hated the massive recoil and had to re-barrel the rifle because it. Also getting the 45-3.25" to shoot worth a hoot is another thing. Its your choice and shoulder __________________ "JB"

09-29-2006, 07:18 AM	#4
waksupi Moderator and trusted loob groove dealer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Somers, Montana Posts: 6,864	I'd agree with the .45-70, for the mentioned reasons, plus cheaper brass. Once you get moved into Idaho, you may want to go talk to Dave Gullo, at Buffalo Arms in Sandpoint. He generally has some used rifles on the rack, and he is one of the most knowledgable BPCR guys around, along with being a heck of a nice guy.

09-29-2006, 07:43 PM	#6
KCSO Boolit Master Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bloomfield, Nebraska Posts: 3,292	I spent a summer shooting a 45-110 in a 12 1/2 pound Sharps rifle and used it on a Buffalo. At 100 yards it didn't kill any better than a 45-70. The bullet went in one side and out the other. Fot target work the gun will shoot, but I would hate to have to shoot 40-60 consecutive rounds. The pounding will give you a headache. I know you are a real man and recoil doesn't bother you (I've only said this about a hundred times myself) but it WILL. If I were making a living killing Buffalo at 400 yards I would see some use for a 45-??? but not otherwise. The Buff I dropped with a 45-70 were just as dead just as quick. As to the 34" barrel I shoot next to a Quiley shooter and he has some carefully worked up loads, but in certian weather he will foul out in the last 2" of barrel about 5 shots quicker than I do with my 32" barrel. I don' consider this a problem so I would get the rifle I liked. I don't think the price is any bargain and I would do some more shopping before I bought at that price. Here is a comparison for you to mull over... 45-70 Brass 20.00 a hundred 45-120 2.00 each. Dies for 45-70 0r 45-90 23.00 Dies for 45-120 (and I have a set) 110.00 add extra powder and extra lead and it will add up. My 45-110 really shot best with 92 grains of FFg and a 535 bullet. My 45-70 shoots fine with 62 grains of FFG and a 330 Gould. The Gould is an excellent deer bullet and the 405 to 450 is excellent for Buff. A 45-70 with 68 grains of FFG and a 405 bullet will shoot through the skull of a bull and the bullet will go all the way to the shoulder. On a side to side shot the bullet goes in one side and out the other. Personaly I wouldn't go over a 45-90.

10-01-2006, 10:58 PM	#9
omgb Boolit Master Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 996	I have a Pedersoli 45-90 and once had a 50-3.25. One thing you gotta know going into this, if you do shoot the loooooong case rounds, you really need to do it with BP. These cases were not designed for smokeless and although they can be loaded to work, it's rarely the best. Ringed chambers and barrel bulges abound with smokeless and large capacity cases. Well, at least the stories do, whether or not it's fact I can't say one way or the other. Still, Shiloh insists BP is the best powder for its guns as does Pedersoli. The 45-70 is the easiest to get started on. these barrels are usually rifled 1-18 and shoot heavy 500-550 grain bullets exceedingly well. __________________ R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow

10-02-2006, 06:39 AM	#10
Boz330 Boolit Master Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 2,448	I have a buddy that shoots a Pedersoli Sharps in 45-70 with a 34 in barrel and does very well with it. Having said that, it doesn't make the weight requirement for BPCRS and is a pain to shoot the offhand chickens with. I personally would hate to tote it hunting. Talking with the good shooters in our area hardly any of them shoot anything over 30 inches. The real plus of this rifle was that he got it from Cabela's for $799 on sale. He is going to chop 4 inches off of it for all of the above mentioned reasons. The $1550 price sounds a little high to me. You could get a Shilo or C Sharps basic for that kind of money. Bob

10-02-2006, 08:38 AM	#11
omgb Boolit Master Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 996	Here's another thing to consider. Whatever you do, if you are really going to shoot this puppy more than a few times a year, get the shotgun butt. I repeat, get the shotgun butt. Sacrifice just about any of the fancy trim points such as pistol grip, Hartford Collar, German silver forend cap, but do not sacrifice the shotgun butt. These guns kick and are heavy to boot. The curved butt will hit you hard enough that in as few as 30 rounds and certainly by 60 rounds, your arm will be shaking and your shoulder will be stiff. Trust me, I am no 90 lb. weakling and shoot 100 rounds of skeet on Fridays and turn around and shoot rifles the next morning without even a hitch. I also have a couple of double rifles that I shoot each month but that Sharps beats the hell out of me to the point that I now wear a cheater pad when I'm going to shoot it for any length. I bought the Billy Dixon model in 45-90. If I had to do it over again, I'd have bought the target model with the shotgun butt. Not quite as romantic but a whole lot easier on the body. Regardless of which you eventually buy, set aside another $400 for the Pedersoli Soule sight set. If you are going to bang away at anything over 100 or 200 yards, you will need these sights to bring out the accuracy. the factory sights are OK for hunting and general plinking out to 100-150 yards but they are in no way adequate for serious target work. The Pedersoli sights are an excellent set for the money. __________________ R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow

10-02-2006, 09:32 AM	#12
montana_charlie I'm A Honcho! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: West of Great Falls, Montana Posts: 6,335	When speaking of raw inches, I doubt that there is enough performance difference to sneeze at between a 30-inch and a 34-inch. Increasing the sight radius makes precise sight alignment easier on any gun, but the most popular lengths (on target ranges) appears to be 30" and 32". On a typical Sharps rifle with a 32-inch barrel, a tang tight will be 36 inches from the front sight. A 30-inch barrel will have a sight radius of 34 inches. The tang sights are marked with vernier scales that are calibrated at 100 units per inch. And, at one hundred yards, 1 minute of angle equals 1.0472" So... - With a 36-inch sight radius, each point on the scale is worth 1 inch at 100 yards. - With the 34-inch spacing each point makes a change of 1 Minute Of Angle. Knowing precisely how much change can be expected from sight adjustments is a handy thing when shots are being scored on a paper target in tenths of an inch. When the scoring is done in minute-of-ribcage, those exact geometric relationships become less important. Other than weight/balance and increased sight radius, I can't think of a single advantage of a 34-inch barrel over the shorter lengths...with the possible exception that the extra few inches might be of some value when the extremely long cases are used. A guy who shoots LR competitively may have more information than I. As for that .45-120 chambering...the used ones you see on the market are mostly 'fired twice' guns. The guy shot it once to see how much it recoiled...and once more to see if the first one was for real. CM __________________ Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time. Last edited by montana_charlie; 10-02-2006 at 09:46 AM.

10-03-2006, 06:13 AM	#13
Boz330 Boolit Master Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 2,448	Speaking of shot twice, I got a #3 ruger in 45-70 for Christmas one year. I went right to the reloading book and pulled out the lightest load for the Ruger and the 405gr bullets I had on the shelf and loaded up 50. I touched off the first round and layed the gun down and shot another one a few times. Then I went back to that little Ruger and shot it again thinking that it really didn't kick that bad the first time. It did! Then I went and pulled the remaining 48 and went to the 1873 Trapdoor data for the next loads. I figured that if that velocity would kill a deer in 1873 it would still work today, and it did. Was a whole lot more fun to shoot as well. Bob

10-03-2006, 12:45 PM	#14
John Boy Boolit Master Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,097	I've been shooting the Pedersoli Quigley (45-70) for close to 2 years. With a vernier rear sight it produces good groups at 600 yds (my longest range near home) Here's the Pedersoli line of Sharps ... http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/Armi...Id=260&lang=en If I had to do it over again, I go with the 1874 Sharps Silhouette DeLuxe in 45-70 (2.1). It is 3# lighter and has a pistol grip butt stock. I'd send it to LaserGraphics and have 20pt checkering done on the forearm and butt stock. The Quigley at 13.2# is a lot of weight to hold trying to shoot 100 or 200yds of hand v 10#'s The 45-120 (2.6) cases are expensive, plus more expensive to reload than the 2.1. Store bought ammo is gonna cost over $300 for 100 rounds for the 45-120. Recoil with the 2.6 is a brute! I shoot an average of 100 rounds of the 2.1 each trip to the range and don't feel any noticeable felt recoil shooting with only a shirt on. Both cartridges will shoot 1000yds with the same accuracy. Knock down power with a 45-70 has close to 2000 ft lbs at 100yds. As for the 30" - 32" - 34" barrel sight radius ... I shoot a H&R 45-70 (32" barrel and 8#'s)with a vernier sight and the Green Mountain barrel is just as accurate as the Quigley. Last summer had a (7" x 2.5") 5 shot group using a 500gr BP bullet over 57grs of Triple 7 at 600yds. Still trying to repeat that group Big Picture: The majority of the good shooters at matches shoot the 45-70 and not the 45- 120. __________________ Regards John

10-03-2006, 09:25 PM	#17
Lee Boolit Master Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,246	rvpilot76, as others have mentioned here, a vernier sight is what you want. I own a couple Pedersolis with tang sights, and neither is a vernier sight. They are the "cheap" Pedersoli sights, part of the reason I got as good a price as I did. A good vernier sight is like a fine Scotch: A beauty to behold with a price that will take your breath away" But it's worth it. My sights have marks with some cryptic "25", "50", "75", **** stamped into them. Given time I can probably translate those into some meaningful ranges, but moving from one range to another will always be a PITA.............................................L ee

10-03-2006, 11:47 PM	#19
martinibelgian Boolit Master Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 219	BA, It is possible to get 70+ grains in 45-70 case without undue compression, but there are some caveats: 1. use large capacity brass (usually W-W) 2. minimal wad (card, ldpe) 3. specific bullet - mine is a 520gr with 3 GG's, and most of the nose in the rifling However, I do start getting serious compression at the 80+gr level - but it goes in though, and works, giving me about 1260 fps

10-05-2006, 09:48 AM	#20
plasma Boolit Mold Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: SW Montana Posts: 14	If you go for the 45-120 (45 3 1/2") you will want a heavy rifle. I have a C Sharps Arms in 45-120 that only weighs 11 1/2 pounds and the recoil with the 540 grain and above bullets is stout. I hunt with the Sharps but for bench shooting a few more ponds of rifle would be a help.