Cutting The Rims Off The .40 s&w Cases

[Rick459]

ok, so today i got to thinking how much easier would it be to swage the .40 cases if the rims were cut off. so today i cut off a few rims and proceded to make .45acp prjectiles. i trimmed the cases to 0.645 length. as yo can see in the photo this length is too long for the core size that i am using. so first i will try shortening the trim length to 0.592 and then if that fails then to 0.488. what i did notice after anealing the cases how much softer they are with out the rims as i mangled a few just seating the cores. also the press was easier to operate when using the form die. stay tuned.
Rick

[MIBULLETS]

Hey Rick, what did you use to cut the rims off?

[Rick459]

i used my mini-lathe with a 7/16 R-8 collet from my mini mill. works pretty well. i also have a old craftmans 109 lathe that was given to me that i am re-furbishing that i think i will dedicate to cutting off the .40 s&w rims. my next batch i will try forming the bullets with out anealing theases as with out the rim and case head they are not as stout.
Rick

[Jailer]

If you do make some with no rim and not annealed, shoot em and post results of the expansion.

[pathfinder]

Nice idea

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'm going to try the mini-chop saw from Harbor Freight to do the same thing.

Probably going to modify the order in which I do things and how I do them...

Still thinking on it, but I may even set up a Dillon tool head to make pre-finish-form bullets... I'm thinking something along the lines of:

1. Deprime
2. Bell-mouth
3. drop in a few shot to add a few grains weight (using the powder measure as a shot dispenser -- not sure how well or poorly this will work)
4. Seat core
5. Once they've gotten those operations done through the Dillon, over to the chop saw they go for de-rimming. (Someone else here said the annealed brass doesn't cut off cleanly, so this step must be done pre-anneal.)
6. Then, anneal the bullets. (This can be done with the cores seated, but they'll need to be set on something like firebrick or steel pan, so the lead doesn't run out the old primer flash-hole.)
7. Clean the bullets with citric acid and tumble. (Cores should be fine, as theoretically, they've been bonded to the jacket through the heat of annealing, or just the friction of having been seated.)
8. Run completed bullets through one-step die.


This should make bullets faster (thanks to the Dillon progressive set-up) that look as close to factory bullets as can be using fired cases for jackets...

[Jailer]

Just curious 10mm, why not just use a heavier core to start with? I know one of the things you are trying to do is fill up the case with a larger volume of lead so why not start with a heavier core and be done with it?

[Rick459]

10mm,
i first tried using the mini chop saw to cut the rims off but the motor with that blade couldn't cut the rim off with out the motor bogging down. that's why i used my mini lathe using a parting tool with the R-8 collet. i am sure there are other ways to accomplish this. i use a modified Forster to trim to length then part off the rim and case head, then aneal. next project is going to be making my own core die.
Rick

[ANeat]

Rick I wonder if you chucked up a 1/2 endmill in the tailstock and doing a plunge cut if it would take off the rim any quicker?

[Daywalker]

Thanks for this thread Rick. I have been thinking of doing this as well. I just picked up my Grizzly G4000 Lathe on Thursday. Looks like something I can get into...

[BT Sniper]

Mini chop saw will not handle cutting the rim off. It does trim the case mouth nicly though.

[Rick459]

ANeat,
i just tried the 1/2" end mill in the tail stock but maybe my end mill is a little dull as it was not doing a faster job of cutting the rim. one does need a collet setup if you wnat to cut the rim using the lathe. but i did aneal the cases after i trimed them to size and after getting below a certain depth the brass seemed to cut easier. here's a pic of the forster trimmer that i modified the base by cutting it shorter so i could cut the cases down short enough.
Rick

[Rick459]

well until i get a collet set up for my lathe i will be triming the rims off the cases with my mill. i have to say that the mill does a good job of removing the rims and takes less time than the lathe. the problem in cutting the rims off is trying to get a good grip on the case while cutting it. the collet set for the lathe should solve that problem.
Rick

[ANeat]

Rick when I was milling brass like that I made up a split block with holes just slightly undersized of the brass, I have a 6" vice on the mill so I made a 6" block with 8 or 10 holes in line. Loosen the vise, drop in the brass and tighten the vise, mill off the rims, loosen the vise, remove and replace, tighten and mill the other way.

Goes pretty quick and if your brass is consistent you get real good results

[BT Sniper]

+1 with aneat's comment though I have not tried it yet that is what I plan to do.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Just curious 10mm, why not just use a heavier core to start with? I know one of the things you are trying to do is fill up the case with a larger volume of lead so why not start with a heavier core and be done with it?

In a word (or two ) - seating depth. Now that I have my first lot of 250gr bullets done, and I've made up some samples of heavier-cored bullets, I've been measuring them for locating a cannelure (playing with the 250s). and got to noticing that to put only .300" of the bullet out of the case, the body of the bullet seats pretty deep. So, I lined up the bullets and compared:

(Sorry for the blurriness -- It looked better on the listtle 2" screen on the camera...)

I'm not worried about weight at all, but to compensate for the seating depth, I'll have to definitely use lighter loads. Getting rid of the extra length at the rim/extractor groove seemed like the smartest way to fix this. My other choice is to load lighter.

I did some pondering and looking at load data, and my conclusion (WAG) is that with the 250s (with head/rim on) I should go down to a 17.0gr start and probably be happy with 18.5grs max for a load of AA#9 in 44 Mag. cases. This should give me around 1200-1300fps I'm guessing. Without the extra seating depth, I'm thinking I could go up to 19.0 or 19.5grs for another 150+ fps. OR, I could stick to 18.5grs and get lower pressure, which is what I normally do.

10mm,
i first tried using the mini chop saw to cut the rims off but the motor with that blade couldn't cut the rim off with out the motor bogging down. that's why i used my mini lathe using a parting tool with the R-8 collet. i am sure there are other ways to accomplish this. i use a modified Forster to trim to length then part off the rim and case head, then aneal. next project is going to be making my own core die.
Rick

Thanks Rick. That's what I figured, with the user's comments about the 3", and why I was thinking of getting the 6" saw with bigger motor. I wonder if the 6" is sufficiently more powerful, or if I should go all the way and get the big one...?

[Rick459]

my...what little gems...


i used a 3/4" endmill and secured the case in my toolmakers vice clamped in my 3" vice using parallels under the case for support making plunge cuts. cuts the rims off pretty quickly.
Rick

[Rick459]

If you do make some with no rim and not annealed, shoot em and post results of the expansion.

Jailer,
as you can see the un-anealed case even with the rim cut off will not bump up all the way in the forming die. so anealing even with the rim removed will still need to done.
Rick

[Jailer]

Well I had to go back and re read your post. For some reason I thought you were trying to make em without having to anneal them. Not sure how I came to that conclusion.

[Rick459]

Well I had to go back and re read your post. For some reason I thought you were trying to make em without having to anneal them. Not sure how I came to that conclusion.

Jailer you are correct. iwas trying to see if by cutting off the rims, with that thick portion of the case gone if it would be possiable to swage up to .45acp dia. i guess the case is thicker than it looks at the bottom so anealing is a must or maybe a bigger press.
Rick