>375 Win chamber slug Wow!

[omgb]

Guys, I made a chamber slug of my BB94 Win. The photo tells it all. I guess they were trying to make it double safe in the event that some moron chambered and fired 38-55 ammo. the throat is .380 and the free bore is .435. Rifling is .377 and look at the length of that chamber! One could stretch the hell out of a 38-55 case and it would still work. The case in the photo is a properly trimmed .375 Win case. It's going to take a custom mould to get maximum cast bullet accuracy out of this gun. I putting in an order to LBT next week.

[felix]

That's down right sickening. My Crohn's is coming back in a rush after seeing this crap. ... felix

Send it back and tell them to provide a correct barrel, or one for the 38-55 straight up (with 18 twist for factory 250 grainers seated properly). ... felix

[Jon K]

omgb,

gb 375 6 cavity mold will work, bullet drops out .385. PM Rick and see if he has any left. I just got one from him about 3 weeks ago.
I've sprayed mine w/mold release and they are coming out around .382. I have a OFW Commemorative 38-55 & a Uberti High Wall 38-55 I have been sizing to .3795".

When I get done testing, I may sell the Lee GB mold, if it doesn't do better than the Saecos and Lyman molds I have.

Jon

[omgb]

You know, the extra chamber length is equal to what the old 38-55 cases were trimmed to. Now, add enough free bore to keep pressures down especially if one is using the older 38-55 ammo with .382 bullets and all of this kind of comes together. Lots of guys have trouble getting really good accuracy out of these with cast bullets. The shallow grooves are no doubt partly to blame but dang boys, you can't have such hugely over cut chambers and excessive free bore like that and get MOA at 100 yards.

[omgb]

Jon, if you do, see me first. Please.

[Bass Ackward]

omgb,

I don't know. Looks friendly to me although some flexibility may have been taken away for lighter bullets. I would say that obturation into the long chamber is more of a problem than the actual throat configuration. Might be tough even on checks in the transition. This may turn out to be one of those catch 22 senarios. You need a longer bullet to cut down on the jump, but the longer bullet weighs more that has more inertia and throaws more pressure on the base causing more obturation.

Of coarse you can MAKE this work, but it may simply be below the expectations you had in mind. Before I went to the expense of a new mold, I would see if it is even practical for you in the current configuration. Maybe you can bum a few bullets from guys until you see what you NEED in a design.

[felix]

Yeah, any gun can be made to shoot when considered a challenge. My weakling body can barely handle 250 grainers in the 375 bore, and just the thought of increasing the weight gives me the red flags. But that is my problem. ... felix

[garandsrus]

omgb,

If you want some ACWW bullets from the .375 group buy mold, send me a PM and I will get them in the mail...

I am guessing that you would want them as-cast so you can size them.

John

[StarMetal]

I wonder if the very first Winchester 375 BB's were chambered differently or better. I ask this because my best friend Mike in Tulsa bought one of the first batch. I was living there at the time and we got him a 250 RCBS mould for it and just started loading it with full 3031 powder loads. Well actually Mike loaded them and I'm pretty darn sure he crimped them into the crimp groove provided on the bullet. What this means is Mike didn't fit the bullet to the throat nor engrave it a tad in the rifling...nothing like that. Why do I mention this? Well Mike is a very good shot. To give you an idea how his 375 shot we would set the 50 meter chickens up at 214 meters..folks that 214 yards. Standing up with seven rounds in the rifle, Mike would knock down seven chickens one after another and everytime. I don't think he ever really sat down on the bench and grouped it at 100 yards to see what it did, unless I don't remember. Now to me that sounds like one fine shooting 375 and one good man shooting it.....especially for not doing any special reloading tricks with a cast bullet....merely cast them lube/size them, load em, shoot em.

Joe

[omgb]

I sure don't know whether or not some guns were made differently. My gun was made in 1980, that's pretty early by BB standards. Txpete has a BB94 and he has had zero accuracy problems with it. When I tried crimping at the crimp groove in both my Lyman and RCBS moulds, the bullets would not cycle. I had to seat them an 1/8" farther out for them to function in the action. Go figure. Felix suggested sending the rifle back and have them fix it. Hmmm, just who would "them" be? Winchester Repeating Arms/USRA is kaput. I bought this off of a private party who "only shot it a few times" The price was right, ($400) so I'm not kicking. If it had been any other gun and the maker was still in business, I would have jumped on your advice Felix. This sort of thing is sh*%%y workmanship at best and is completely unacceptable in my book. That being said, working out the bugs is kinda fun. Expensive, but fun. jacketed bullets shoot pretty well so far as I can tell. Any way, I'd love to see slugs from other BB94s. Any one willing to make one and post the results? I'd especially love to see a Marlin chamber.

[StarMetal]

My friend Mike's rifle is a Winchester model, not the later U.S. Repeating Arms Co. I arrived in Tulsa in 1978 so I believe Mike got that rifle about the same time you did, BUT he got it at the Tulsa Gun Show, so it wasn't brand new, it was used. So being used at that year dates it a tad earlier. Now another friend in Tulsa, Gary, bought one after Mike, but his was a U.S.R.A ond and I believe he bought it new. Now Gary wasn't into reloading so I loaded him jacketed round which he made some really good long killing shots on deer. He loves that rifle. Back to Mike, he nary had a problem with his BB94, no feeding problems, leading, etc. Like I said he loaded that bullet with it crimped in the factory crimp groove. I shot the rifle, but I never attempted the chickens at 200 meters, which I'm positive he would beat me at. Boy ya know that front bead sight would pretty much cover up that chicken at that distance. Not quite sure how he aimed, I'll have to ask him next time I call him.

Joe

[McLintock]

If you work with it a little it may shoot cast bullets really well. I have a Browning 1885 single shot that I use shortened 38-55 cases in (shortened to 1.95" so I could get 9 of them in a 24" mag in a lever gun), and I use both 245 plain base and 265 gr gas check bullets in, and it shoots great that way. Bullets seated to the crimp groove so they have a considerable jump to the rifling. Also using .380 and .381 bullets with a .376" bore. It's super consistent and very accurate; I can chamber original 38-55 cases at 2.128" in it, so it definitely doesn't have a short chamber.
Another thing you might do is buy some .38-55 Basic brass from Buffalo Arms and trim them to match the chamber length in your gun. They start out at 2.234" and would fill up that chamber easily. Think of the powder capacity you'd have with that combo.
Just a couple of thoughts.
McLintock

[cabezaverde]

Another thing you might do is buy some .38-55 Basic brass from Buffalo Arms and trim them to match the chamber length in your gun. They start out at 2.234" and would fill up that chamber easily. McLintock

Be careful here. I have a Marlin 375 that is chambered pretty much the same way. You have to watch feed length also, or else you have a single shot lever gun that has to be loaded through the breech and can only be unloaded by firing.

[cabezaverde]

I think OMGB is exactly right. I was fooling around with my Marlin 375 tonight. I made up a dummy round using an old Peters 38-55 case (this is the long stuff) and a .381 diameter 250 grain bullet. The dummy fed and chambered fine.

They were covering their butts in case someone fed 38-55 rounds to a big bore.

[omgb]

Here's my plan. I have ordered some long 38-55 brass from Buffalo Arms. It's on back order but should be in by what, Christmas? Any way, when it arrives I will have it. I'm also going to try several bullets that some of you have offered, especially a few from the recent GB Lee 6 holer. My intent is to have Veral Smith make me a custom bullet fit precisely for this rifle and throat. The longer brass will help center the round as will a full throat diameter front driving band, a wide and heavy one. I'll want two lube grooves and an extra long shank so that I have considerable space between the gas check and the rear driving band. Not only will that carry extra lube but it will also help cut down leading at higher speeds. I'm thinking a bullet of about 250-260 grains might be just right. However, I'm going to check the twist first. Lyman says that rifle has a 1-12 twist but I'm not sure. That fast of a twist would be ideal for 260-300 grain bullets. However, I have a suspecian that the twist is more like 1-14 which would work best with 220-250 grain bullets. Oddly enough, that is precisely what the factory loaded in condoms. At present, only the 200 grain factory load remains and Hornady only makes a 220 grain bullet for it. There just might be a twist problem behind all of this. I test my theory tonight after dinner.

In the dmean time, if any of you have .380 - .381 dia. bullets and can spare say 10 or 15 for testing, I'd be more than happy to front the shipping, just PM me.

I['d also love to see some chamber slugs done in BB AE94 guns and some Marlins. It would be very interesting to see if the chambers were all the same. maybe a few 38-55s too. This could be very illuminating.

[Jon K]

I'm only guessing but everything you have described, sounds more like a 38-55, rather than a 375. When you have checked the twist, if it comess out 1/18, that's the same twist Winchester used for 38-55 in 1980 production of the OFW 38-55 Commemoratives. maybe you have a factory screw up- wrong barrel & mismarked.
Although if it was me, it would be ok since I'm a fan of the 38-55.

Jon

[omgb]

I just checked the twist tonight. It's one turn in 11 3/4". I checked it twice to be sure. Interesting isn't it? You know, it does shoot OK as it is now. I can get 3-4" groups out at 100 yards if I am careful. Using BP and softer bullets I can get 2-3" groups at the same distance. But, surely this gun can do better. I know the gun was designed for "brush" shooting at ranges under 150 yards but still, it should shoot 2" at 100 yards for a five shot group. That's not asking too much; well, maybe it is I'm not sure. Any way, I'm going to plug away until i've either gotten MOA or I run out of desire/money both.

[JFE]

omgb,

the throat you describe on your 375 Win is similar to the style used in the 458 Win mag.

FWIW I have a CBE mould in 375 (made in Australia) that was apparently designed for use in 375 Win. It casts a 300 gr FN bullet and may be the sort of thing required to bridge the end of the case and the beginning of the rifling. I use it in a H&H and it is very accurate.

Joe

[45 2.1]

The Marlin and the early Win 94BB have about the same setup. Presently i'm shooting PP to get them accurate (under 1.5 M.O.A.) with the short brass available now. I've been waiting on Starline to bring out their full length 38-55 brass........ for a long time now. When they do, it will be easier to get these rifles shooting.

[McLintock]

Just dug out an article by Ken Waters from the Jan-Feb 1978 issue of Handloader Magazine on the then new .375 Big Bore. He states it came with a 1-12" twist and a true .375 bore; sounds like they used .375 H&H blanks for the barrels, I've read where they used those blanks on some of the 38-55 Commeneratives. He had best results with Barnes .375 255 gr bullets in jacketed and either the Lyman 375449 or Ideal 375248 231 gr cast bullets; didn't say what size he sized the cast ones to. He tried some 270 and 300 gr silvertips but could not get any accuracy at all with these weights. That seems strange as the Black Powder boys are using 1-12" twists for up to 395 gr bullets and 350-365 are commonplace with that twist. If you still want to try some .380 or .381's in the 245 to 265 range, I'll send you some for the postage; I'll even gas check the 265's for you, they're the Lyman 375449 style from Hunter Supply in Texas. Let me know.
McLintock