I think We Have a Winner!

[longbow]

Finally, it looks like I have some good news to report on slug shooting!

My latest attempt shows promise so will get some more development. Photo attached.

This one is a Brenneke style attached wad slug but instead of using stacked nitro card wads, felt or some other layered material I decided to pour the wad out of hot melt glue.

The slug is a simple stubby cylinder with TC nose and a cast in screw hole. It weighs just over 400 grs. as cast and the assembly weighs about 460 grs.

I made a form out of a 1/2" CPVC pipe coupling bored to accept the slug. The slug gets a #10 x 3/4" countersunk head wood screw installed. The inside of the machined coupling gets a wipe of grease then the slug is pushed into the coupling with the screw inside and hot melt glue poured in to fill the coupling. After the glue hardens up the assembly is pushed out of the form.

I have made similar slugs before but always had trouble with the "wad". This form produces a better "wad". Also, in the past I have made most of this style as bore size. These slugs fit into a standard shotcup.

I only made and shot 5 but they shot well. All the slugs punched nice round holes in the paper. My group was nothing to write home about at 6" at 30 yards but that was standing and shooting offhand with iron sights and no support in driving rain and wind (did I miss any excuses?).

I managed to recover 3 slugs as well.

The load was:

- Fiocchi 2 3/4" low base hulls roll crimped
- Fiocchi 616 primers
- 35 grs Blue Dot
- Pacific Versalite shotcup
- 460 gr. Brenneke style slug

These slugs were actually somewhat undersize as they were designed for thick petal shotcups so I paper patched to get them to snug fit since I didn't have any thick petal shotcups. The next mould will be around 0.680" diameter.

Next outing will be to the range and shooting off a bench. That will limit my excuses (maybe the sun will get in my eyes?). I will likely also use a faster powder than Blue Dot as well since this slug is fairly light.

The three slugs recovered all went through about an 8" diameter tree then two hit a rocky bank, and the other was sideways in another tree.

These slugs are pretty easy to make and easy to load so I will get more made and shot, and hopefully have some more good news shortly.

Longbow

[Blammer]

definitely keep us informed of what happens!

it's been too cold and windy an snowy here for any casting or shooting. I can't wait till spring!

[woody12]

Its been a long road mate. Glad your almost their. keep us informed, the way you write makes for enjoyable reading, I can never look away. I'm still a couple hundred miles behind you mate testing, rejecting and generally getting frustrated. I might just start buying slugs............................................. .....






















when hell freezes over.
ATB.
David.

[Greg5278]

Longbow, it sounds pretty good. You might be able to try the LBC wads to take up the slack in your bore, before making a new mold. The slug looks more durable than the last brenneke style ones you made. I still haven't gotten around to making a test gun fixed to a bench for accuracy testing. That would be nice, to remove the human part of the equation.
Keep up the good work!
Greg

[missionary5155]

Good evening
Looks GOOD Longbow. I really like the simplicity of it all.
How are the Olympics going... I would have figured you to be out showing those skiers with their .22 Olympic rifles what a real shooting tool looked like. I wonder if the recoil from a 12 bore would push a skier very far backwards ??

[centershot]

Lomgbow,
Just wondering if you have had a chance to do any further development on this project?

[longbow]

centershot

I have not had a chance as of late to do much shooting at all. I do have the slugs ready to go and will shoot them ASAP.

I have high hopes for these bad boys because there really is nothing new here ~ same principle as Brenneke, AQ and other similar styles. I think the only thing holding back success is consistency.

I have had some good results with similar slugs before but kept getting fliers. I think the fliers are due to inconsistencies in the attached wad. My new wad mould makes them more consistent.

These are pretty easy to make and best of all pretty inexpensive. So... assuming I can make them work a good thing.

I will keep you posted.

Longbow

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Inexpensive and Easy... those are two wonderful words to be reading.
Good to see ya jabbing the keys again in this thread.

[Y-man]

Hello Longbow,

This is a great idea and I must confess: I copied it! I poured hot-glue onto my "socket-wrench mold" slugs and I think this would turn out fine. I am yet to test fire though...

My own slugs are bore-size, and the hot-glue poured into a paper cylinder clamped unto the slug, then filed down/ smoothened once dry.

Sorry my work seems so rough. I also used a ball bearing as the nose of my slug: that gives my slugs consistency in casting, and a penetrator for hard targets. The ball bearing (In tests I have done before, but without the skirt: would detach on impact and penetrate further: I once hit a bunch of old, wet phone books: the lead slug itself hit and expanded in the first 2, the ball bearing went further through a third, and was found about 10 yards further.)
See Picture:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44877118@N04/5097702454/

[dogbert41]

I was given a box of ball bearings from where I get my wheel weights from, but I can't bring myself to load them in any shells. Perhaps the way that you use them might be a way to do that. Do they open up the lead slugs when they hit?

[Y-man]

Hi Dogbert41: yes: they do: when the slugs hit: the balls are forced in: spreading the lead slugs, and then penetrating further. So that way, you get both an "armor-piercing" penetrator, and a "hollow-point" all in one.

[longbow]

Well, I still haven't managed to get organized and get more testing done!

It seems that every time I decide to go shooting something comes up to interfere.

I had a very busy summer and fall but should have some time coming up to load and shoot. I had intended to have this all done long ago.

Sorry for the delay in reporting but there just hasn't been anything to report!

I may just have to make some time this weekend and get it done. I do have slugs all ready to go.

I will post as soon as I have results ~ good or bad.

Longbow

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Be carefull with the ball bearings and hard surfaces as they tend to bounce and fly off at considerable velocity. You do not want one of those to come back at you.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Thanks again Longbow... I am now wondering why not one of these tails on a RB ? The hot glue will form to the RB shape and we end up with a nice flat base that should eliminate the wad tipping.
Maybe that bit of tail drag could give a much more reliable 50+ yard accuracy.

[longbow]

Mike:

I tried the hot melt glue on round balls along with a screw to make sure they didn't separate.

The hot melt glue tends to squeeze around the ball breaking the bond and leaving a rolled over front edge.

Now having said that, I get the observation from recovered slugs but some were from snow so I believe it. Those that have a flat base for the glue skirt to push on do not show this.

This new flat based TC slug seems to work pretty well that way.

I am hoping it will combine the penetration of the RB (being pretty much solid) with the accuracy of a Brenneke or AQ. To 50 yards or so it is hard to beat a good round ball load but much beyond and they start to spread. These I am hoping (always hoping!) will hold on to their accuracy further downrange.

I could keep AQ's in a 6" circle at 100 yards once a good load was worked up but they are too expensive to plink or play with so while they provide the accuracy I want, they don't provide the economy I need to shoot many. Plus I like to tinker.

What I need is more time... and more money, but who doesn't?

Longbow

[longbow]

Okay, finally some more range results!

It has been a while but I did manage to get out and test a few more of this design off the bench today.

- all shots at 50 yards
- Fiocchi clear hull
- Winchester 209 primers
- 27 grs. of Unique
- Pacific Versalite wad
- Teflon wrap on the slug to get snug fit of slug/shotcup in barrel
- two groups of 5 shots I only had 10 slugs ready to go)
- smoothbore shotgun (with heavy trigger pull) and open sights
- slug weight with skirt = 470 grs.

Kind of a good news/bad news result.

The bad news is that groups were not great,,, in fact the first group was very bad. Two slugs right together in the bull (I thought i had miss the target until I took a look through the spotting scope then felt good) then 3 really spread out like 12".

I did pull at least one and the trigger is pretty heavy so I figured I might have jerked one or two.

Next group wasn't so bad at 6 1/2" overall and three were in a horizontal string of 3" wide by 3/4" high then two dropped low. Not really bad but not real good either.

The good news is:

- all holes in the target were round so no wobbling in flight
- I recovered all ten shotcups and they all look good. Two had petals opened up and the rest all stayed "closed". All show that the hot melt glue skirt compressed and expanded as the petals are thin where the glue skirt is and thick where the solid lead is. I don't think this is a problem.
- I recovered one slug from our 300 yard berm. It could be reloaded and shot again! It has some slight scuffing on it but is in amazingly good shape and the hot melt glue skirt is in perfect shape and still solid to the slug (our range is soft sand surface).
- no pressure signs

I found several pieces of Teflon wrap and some were torn which indicates something is not right.

This slug is somewhat undersize for these shotcups as it was originally sized to fit into steel shot wads with very thick petals.

I plan to bore out the mould (or make a new one) at 0.680" or a bit more to eliminate the Teflon wrap.

I should also mention that just to be sure the hot melt glue skirt didn't glue itself to anything, I coated it with black powder lube then one wrap of Teflon.

So, I think the slug still shows promise but should be bumped up in diameter to be a tight fit without wrap.

My work here is not yet done!

Longbow

[Y-man]

Hi Longbow, good to see this! It is progress...

In my own circumstance: if I could get all fired shots into a 12 inch circle at 50yards: I would still be jumping for joy a week later!

You have any pictures to share with us?

I am in London right now, and I have bought a few things here that should help me get consistency in my casting. I got a plastic pipe cutter: for even, measured cuts on the PVC pipe mold for the skirts. I bought a lot of flat-top screws too...
I will keep you updated... Many thanks.

[longbow]

Y-man:

I didn't post pics because the groups were nothing to brag about and the recovered slug looks about like a dusty version of the unfired slug in my first post.

After thinking about this for a bit, I know I made at least one mistake and that was the Teflon wrap. What was I thinking?!? In the past I had used crossed strips of paper in a Chase patch style that worked fine and obviously would release better. I am thinking that the Teflon wrap held on just enough to skew the slugs as it unwrapped.

I had used a BP lube to make sure nothing stuck to the slug as a little gas leakage could soften the glue. So far I have not seen that happen but I lube to make sure it doesn't. I think the crossed strips of paper is a better way to go so I will cast some more and try again.

While I was disappointed with the first group and even the second wasn't as good as round balls normally do, it was better than many slugs have done so not awful. In fact both groups were better than many slugs have done.

The round holes and undamaged shotcups is also a good sign ~ no shredding, uneven petal opening, extrusion, blown seals, etc. all good.

I am making some slight changes to the skirt form and will post pics when I make the next batch then hopefully I will have some targets to post after shooting too!

Longbow

[missionary5155]

Good morning Longbow
It all sounds promising. 6" at 50 yards is not bad. Those slugs pack a real wallop on target.
My supply of Unique has reached the criticle stage so I am done for now. Have to keep enough to feed my 44-40 100 rounds just is case.
So it is back to BP for me. Least that is readily available and 120 grain charges are enough in my Mossy to get my attention.

[longbow]

Mike:

I think the 6" is realistic since these have done that and better before. I am going to load up more shortly and go back to cross paper instead of the Teflon wrap which I think was a mistake.

I figured since the Teflon is for buckshot and slugs and is just the right thickness to give snug fit I would use it. Should not have changed in mid test!

Next time I will do some more 50 yard shooting and possibly some 100 yard shooting to see if accuracy holds up at longer range.

I do better with good round ball loads at 50 yards than these did but I think I can make these do better. It is beyond about 60 (maybe 70 yards that the round ball groups open up badly).

To 50 yards it is hard to beat a round ball as you well know. My goal has been to get "decent" groups at 100 yards with smoothbore.

These TC slugs are solid so should have all the good attributes of a round ball but hopefully carry accuracy farther (if Wilhelm Brenneke could do it I should be able to...). They are easy to make, easy to load and fit into shotcups so convenient. All good things in my book if they shoot well enough.

More testing to come.

Longbow

PS: Mike, I meant to add that I used the weight I did so I can use a variety of powders for published slug and shot loads. I like the heavier slugs but powder choices are fewer and recipes are even fewer. With this weight I can use pretty much any readily available powder.